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Author Topic: how many pages of theology do you usually have to read before you get depressed?  (Read 5203 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 30, 2012, 11:50:26 PM »

For me it takes less than 10. If the subject is a non-dogmatic though, that is another story.
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 11:56:12 PM »

My attention span has decreased with age. I rarely read more than 4 pages before I put a book down anymore. Doesn't make me depressed, I just lose focus after that and find that I start to zone out.

Why does it make you depressed?
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 06:16:30 AM »

I don't get more depressed from reading theology.
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2012, 07:15:22 AM »

Dude. The news make me depressed. A lot of literature makes me depressed (Ah, Jodi Picoult, the natural heir of Virginia Woolf *gags*). Theology makes me think. Granted, it can make my brain hurt, but depressed? Naw.

PS: Unless it's Great Awakening stuff. I had to plod through 'Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God' in university, and even my much younger and resilient self wanted to jump off a high place afterwards. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2012, 07:38:41 AM »

Quite a few. I was reading Uspienski's "Theology of icon" recently and I read on the last page of the book "the publishing house decided to stop on the XIth chapter".
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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2012, 08:14:04 AM »

Quite a few. I was reading Uspienski's "Theology of icon" recently and I read on the last page of the book "the publishing house decided to stop on the XIth chapter".

I have the same edition of the book (btw, given by priest 2 weeks before my chrismation) and primary when my friend had said she had had the full version, I hadn't believed my version wasn't complete. But when I reach this asterisk and this sentence, I was so disappointed. And still after one year don't know the rest
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 08:32:25 AM »

"the publishing house decided to stop on the XIth chapter".

Why?
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 08:41:27 AM »

"the publishing house decided to stop on the XIth chapter".

Why?

They didn't have the money to pay the translator?

No idea.
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 08:48:22 AM »

"the publishing house decided to stop on the XIth chapter".

Why?

They didn't have the money to pay the translator?

No idea.

There is written "because the XIth chapter makes an entirety with Byzantium"  Roll Eyes But it's an old edition, from 1993 year, maybe they wanted to create 2 volumes of it (=more money)?...
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 02:03:14 PM »

SotM!
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 02:05:12 PM »

SotM!

 Huh
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« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 02:10:33 PM »


Subject of the Month.
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« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 02:14:28 PM »

For me, I can get through about four pages before I realize the saint or whomever in the book is way more holy than I am. Then my head starts to hurt.
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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2012, 05:32:49 PM »

St. John Chrysostom can cause me to become depressed pretty fast. He is always so condemning, blunt and to-the-point in his writings that it feels like he is directly calling me out on my sinfulness. My patron though doesn't cause me to become depressed when I read his works, but rather I become more so inspired.
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« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2012, 08:04:24 PM »

If you get depressed, you're not doing it right, I think.
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« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2012, 08:24:13 PM »

If you get depressed, you're not doing it right, I think.
...or you shouldn't be reading theology.
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2012, 08:52:44 PM »

If you get depressed, you're not doing it right, I think.
...or you shouldn't be reading theology.

Basically.
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2012, 09:21:44 PM »

724 1/2
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2012, 09:34:57 PM »

No one gets bored at about tree fiddy?  I will say that some books are more prone to make me doubt than others (and not the ones you'd most likely think)  angel
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2012, 09:53:33 PM »

St. John Chrysostom can cause me to become depressed pretty fast. He is always so condemning, blunt and to-the-point in his writings that it feels like he is directly calling me out on my sinfulness. My patron though doesn't cause me to become depressed when I read his works, but rather I become more so inspired.

Agreed.  he gives me the impression that when he is condemning, he seems to forget his own sinfullness, and calls everyone else out on theirs.
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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2012, 09:55:17 PM »

No one gets bored at about tree fiddy?  I will say that some books are more prone to make me doubt than others (and not the ones you'd most likely think)  angel

that too.
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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2012, 11:24:29 PM »

St. John Chrysostom can cause me to become depressed pretty fast. He is always so condemning, blunt and to-the-point in his writings that it feels like he is directly calling me out on my sinfulness. My patron though doesn't cause me to become depressed when I read his works, but rather I become more so inspired.

Agreed.  he gives me the impression that when he is condemning, he seems to forget his own sinfullness, and calls everyone else out on theirs.

Plus--no disrespect to him--he did grow up in a somewhat well-off household and received a good education. He never suffered any poverty. Yet, he made it sound as if it was so easy for the poor to be like Lazarus and patiently endure their poverty...easy for him to say.
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« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2012, 11:27:01 PM »

Five pages or so if it's really abstract.
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« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2012, 11:35:30 PM »

Also depends on your translation. Some of my Patristic books are really old translations that use like 19th century English and thus take me a much longer time to read due to the confusing writing and I get depressed because of that.
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« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2012, 11:38:54 PM »

For me it takes less than 10. If the subject is a non-dogmatic though, that is another story.

Depends on what I'm reading!  Smiley
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« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2013, 12:14:51 AM »

Plus--no disrespect to him--he did grow up in a somewhat well-off household and received a good education. He never suffered any poverty. Yet, he made it sound as if it was so easy for the poor to be like Lazarus and patiently endure their poverty...easy for him to say.

Didn't he give up his wealth and spend some time as a hermit?
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« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2013, 12:16:00 AM »

If you get depressed, you're not doing it right, I think.

I'll second this.
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« Reply #27 on: January 01, 2013, 06:11:06 PM »

For me, I can get through about four pages before I realize the saint or whomever in the book is way more holy than I am. Then my head starts to hurt.

It's like this for me too.  For instance, St. Tikhon of Zadonsk.  I realize how much he dedicated his life to God, and it makes me feel shallow in ways.... Of course then you can pick up a book about Constantine.  After reading about the tens of thousands of people he ordered murdered in warfare, the execution of his own wife and son... Then suddenly I feel a bit better.

That said, it all depends on the read.   Some saints really make an excellent example for us.
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« Reply #28 on: January 01, 2013, 06:20:48 PM »

So wait a minute, you mean that Constantine can murder thousands of people--family included--and be an Arian, yet, the Church can Canonize him a Saint, but if I don't give up masturbation I'll go to Orthodox Hell? You gotta be kidding me.
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« Reply #29 on: January 01, 2013, 06:30:33 PM »

Constantine was an emperor. What remorseless emperor commands you? He wasn't an Arian, semi-arian at most, and possibly not even that. Besides, he lived his entire life without that tricky issue coming into play. I don't know if he murdered anyone, he was ruthless perhaps, but then all emperors had to be. It was a ruthless time. I don't say all he did was fine, but there is a place for repentance. There are different degrees of sins, but you can't measure yours against someone elses on a balance, it doesn't work that way. You need to avoid sinning whatever your place. God decides how to take extenuating circumstances or context into account. In the case of Constantine He has revealed to the Church that he was a saint. It is enough.
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« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2013, 06:31:06 PM »

So wait a minute, you mean that Constantine can murder thousands of people--family included--and be an Arian, yet, the Church can Canonize him a Saint, but if I don't give up masturbation I'll go to Orthodox Hell? You gotta be kidding me.

St. Constantine, interceed for JamesR that he may not masturbate so much.

Better now?
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« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2013, 06:33:17 PM »

So wait a minute, you mean that Constantine can murder thousands of people--family included--and be an Arian, yet, the Church can Canonize him a Saint, but if I don't give up masturbation I'll go to Orthodox Hell? You gotta be kidding me.

It makes paradoxes of all sorts.   That's why I don't view Constantine as a saint.   Masturbation I would consider a sin and self serving, but it is not my place to say if you would go to hell or not.

Point being, James, I am VERY glad you are not killing tens of thousands of people, or plan on executing your future wife and son.     EDIT **** BY the way, I am not judging you for this at all.  It's just my opinion.  Though I don't suffer from this sin, I DO suffer from many others.   Quick to anger for example.

When I read theology, there are some wonderful saints.  True role models of how we can increase our worship and faith in God.  Some are such examples, that it honestly makes me depressed that I am not doing a better job.   Reading about Constantine though... Wow.  Look, I know we are all supposed to be humble and all, and focus on our own sin.... but... seriously...  The kid @ Sandy Hook killed way less people than this Orthodox Saint.  (executed post Nicea)   He executed his own wife by having her suffocated in an extremely hot bath... His son in a prison.  This was in 326.  (forgive us our trespasses)

332 and 334, he led armies to attack the Goths leading to over 100 thousand Goth deaths!

So anyway, yes, there are some theological saints I read about and feel like a monster... Then I read about Constantine, and feel a bit better.  

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« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2013, 06:35:11 PM »

332 and 334, he led armies to attack the Goths leading to over 100 thousand Goth deaths!

More people would have died if St. Constantine the Great hadn't stopped the Goths.
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« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2013, 06:35:47 PM »

So wait a minute, you mean that Constantine can murder thousands of people--family included--and be an Arian, yet, the Church can Canonize him a Saint, but if I don't give up masturbation I'll go to Orthodox Hell? You gotta be kidding me.

St. Constantine, interceed for JamesR that he may not masturbate so much.

Better now?

There is a book called "Constantine's Sword" talking about how ruthless he was.  I doubt James would want Constantine's sword interceding on a masturbation problem.   Cry
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« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2013, 06:37:09 PM »

332 and 334, he led armies to attack the Goths leading to over 100 thousand Goth deaths!

More people would have died if St. Constantine the Great hadn't stopped the Goths.

Nope, it was a campaign against them for imperialism.  He gained lands that way.

Purely about $$$ and land.
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« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2013, 06:37:42 PM »

So wait a minute, you mean that Constantine can murder thousands of people--family included--and be an Arian, yet, the Church can Canonize him a Saint, but if I don't give up masturbation I'll go to Orthodox Hell? You gotta be kidding me.

St. Constantine, interceed for JamesR that he may not masturbate so much.

Better now?

There is a book called "Constantine's Sword" talking about how ruthless he was.

That book's Jewish propaganda. Source.
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« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2013, 06:40:09 PM »

If you get depressed, you're not doing it right, I think.

No, if you don't get depressed you're doing it wrong or you are reading bad theology.
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« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2013, 06:40:38 PM »

I think Cyrillic is right. No one likes war, but it is sometimes a necessary evil. St. Constantine probably couldn't avoid this, as he was a political leader. A saint is not someone who never made a mistake; rather, it's someone who repented and gave their lives to God at some point prior to death. Any sin can be forgiven, upon genuine repentance. If St. Constantine had that, and I believe the Church posits that he did, he could be forgiven that sin and any other. God searches the heart.
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« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2013, 06:42:35 PM »

So wait a minute, you mean that Constantine can murder thousands of people--family included--and be an Arian, yet, the Church can Canonize him a Saint, but if I don't give up masturbation I'll go to Orthodox Hell? You gotta be kidding me.

St. Constantine, interceed for JamesR that he may not masturbate so much.

Better now?

There is a book called "Constantine's Sword" talking about how ruthless he was.

That book's Jewish propaganda. Source.

Constantine is well documented for these events.  Even wikipedia has information on this.  Nobody denies the execution of his wife and son.
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« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2013, 06:45:08 PM »

Moses ordered genocides but none of you have a problem with that
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« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2013, 06:45:42 PM »

I think Cyrillic is right. No one likes war, but it is sometimes a necessary evil. St. Constantine probably couldn't avoid this, as he was a political leader. A saint is not someone who never made a mistake; rather, it's someone who repented and gave their lives to God at some point prior to death. Any sin can be forgiven, upon genuine repentance. If St. Constantine had that, and I believe the Church posits that he did, he could be forgiven that sin and any other. God searches the heart.

I understand this... But Christ taught us otherwise.   He taught us to love our enemies.  He taught us to pray for those who persecute us.   He taught us to turn the cheek.  He taught us to forgive.

Constantine killed his enemies.  He killed those who persecuted him.  He killed for lands & political reasons.  He did not turn the cheek.

He did not forgive his own WIFE and SON!   He KILLED them!

I really don't have a beef with many saints in the EO faith.  Most I read about are wonderful and good people.   But this guy... wow.
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« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2013, 06:50:32 PM »

Moses ordered genocides but none of you have a problem with that

Moses's genocides were "a bit" different than what Constantine did.   In the Torah, God is actually commanding him to do this in the book of Numbers.   31:1 for example.

Also, the Old Testament law was fulfilled by God when he taught of loving our enemies, forgiving, turning the cheek, etc.
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« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2013, 06:51:00 PM »

Yesh, with all respect, do you understand what repentance is? Do you understand what sacramental Confession is?

A lot of this rests on whether you accept the validity of the Church and the power of the priests to administer Holy Confession. I wasn't 'in the room' when St. Constantine and his priest prayed to God and asked for forgiveness. The Church accepts that this happened, however.

Even if St. Constantine did awful things, he could be forgiven, after he repented and confessed. That's what the Gospel tells us anyone could do to be forgiven. I accept that.
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« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2013, 07:15:02 PM »

If you get depressed, you're not doing it right, I think.

how should i do it?
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« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2013, 07:16:25 PM »

St. John Chrysostom can cause me to become depressed pretty fast. He is always so condemning, blunt and to-the-point in his writings that it feels like he is directly calling me out on my sinfulness. My patron though doesn't cause me to become depressed when I read his works, but rather I become more so inspired.

Agreed.  he gives me the impression that when he is condemning, he seems to forget his own sinfullness, and calls everyone else out on theirs.

Plus--no disrespect to him--he did grow up in a somewhat well-off household and received a good education. He never suffered any poverty. Yet, he made it sound as if it was so easy for the poor to be like Lazarus and patiently endure their poverty...easy for him to say.


absolutely.
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