Author Topic: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?  (Read 1660 times)

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Offline tweety234

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what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« on: January 19, 2013, 11:52:08 PM »
any ideas? is it a heresy?
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2013, 12:01:32 AM »
You will have to be more specific.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2013, 12:02:11 AM »
I don't think it has anything to do with Orthodox Christianity. I've heard the term as "inclusive orthodoxy,' with the small o, which is not the same as Orthodoxy. IIRC, "inclusive orthodoxy" comes out of Evangelical Protestantism.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2013, 12:05:00 AM »
any ideas? is it a heresy?

Are you referring to this "Inclusive Orthodoxy?" If so, it has nothing to do with Orthodoxy.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 12:07:39 AM »
any ideas? is it a heresy?

Are you referring to this "Inclusive Orthodoxy?" If so, it has nothing to do with Orthodoxy.

I briefly looked over it and I must agree. 

In fact, I consider this to be dangerous and something we must protect the Church from.  Things have dissolved almost to the point it was in the early Church which initiated the canonization of the scriptures to protect Christianity from all of the liars and false teachings.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 12:10:25 AM by Kerdy »

Offline Antonis

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2013, 12:12:40 AM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2013, 12:15:15 AM »
Seems they want to create an "orthodoxy" which has neither the "ortho" nor the "doxy."
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I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Nephi

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2013, 12:19:31 AM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon

Yes, I've come across one of his works on Amazon several times, Homosexuality in the Orthodox Church.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2013, 12:23:06 AM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon

Isn't funny how an Episcopal educates people about Orthodoxy?  I suppose my question would be, "Why?"  Why start this if it has nothing to do with your own denomination, church, ordaining body, etc.?  Very dangerous indeed!

Maybe we should link this thread with this one:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,49235.0.html
After people follow the links and read what is there.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 12:26:20 AM by Kerdy »

Offline Symeon77

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2013, 06:02:51 AM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon

Isn't funny how an Episcopal educates people about Orthodoxy?  I suppose my question would be, "Why?"  Why start this if it has nothing to do with your own denomination, church, ordaining body, etc.?  Very dangerous indeed!

Maybe we should link this thread with this one:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,49235.0.html

After people follow the links and read what is there.

Why?

Well of course because, as explained in the description of the book Homosexuality in the Orthodox Church, 'The conversation concerning the full inclusion of gays and lesbians in the Orthodox Church has not started in the same way it has in the Roman, Anglican, and Protestant churches.'

Until this presumptuous interloper came around to make sure that the conversation starts 'in the same way' as in the other religious bodies. Conversation, understand?

Have any Orthodox Bishops (those rightly dividing the word of the truth, anyhow) dialogued with this guy? Because someone really ought to make an effort to put him in his place.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 06:03:56 AM by Symeon77 »
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2013, 06:17:19 AM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon

Isn't funny how an Episcopal educates people about Orthodoxy?  I suppose my question would be, "Why?"  Why start this if it has nothing to do with your own denomination, church, ordaining body, etc.?  Very dangerous indeed!

Maybe we should link this thread with this one:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,49235.0.html

After people follow the links and read what is there.

Why?

Well of course because, as explained in the description of the book Homosexuality in the Orthodox Church, 'The conversation concerning the full inclusion of gays and lesbians in the Orthodox Church has not started in the same way it has in the Roman, Anglican, and Protestant churches.'

Until this presumptuous interloper came around to make sure that the conversation starts 'in the same way' as in the other religious bodies. Conversation, understand?

Have any Orthodox Bishops (those rightly dividing the word of the truth, anyhow) dialogued with this guy? Because someone really ought to make an effort to put him in his place.

Indeed, he should be put in his place.  But no one will do this.

Offline stavros_388

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2013, 09:51:15 AM »
Has anyone here actually taken the time to read the book?
"This is the cross - to become dead to the whole world, to suffer sorrows, temptations and other passions of Christ; in bearing this cross with complete patience, we imitate Christ's passion and thus glorify our God the Father as His sons in grace and co-heirs of Christ." --St. Symeon the New Theologian

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2013, 11:06:07 AM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon

Isn't funny how an Episcopal educates people about Orthodoxy?  I suppose my question would be, "Why?"  Why start this if it has nothing to do with your own denomination, church, ordaining body, etc.?  Very dangerous indeed!


When I was going to the Episcopal Church, I heard talk of great love of Eastern Christian traditions.  Perhaps this is their shiny, new eastern branch and they're calling it "Orthodoxy"?  (Have we got a copyright on that word or...)

Offline That person

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2013, 07:14:51 PM »
That would be tricky to establish, as one could be an orthodox Calvinist or an Orthodox Jew without being an Orthodox Christian. As for Father Cannon (TWBAGBN), his approach seems rather curious. I can completely understand the desire to see a different sort of dialog about homosexuality among the Orthodox, but I can't see this as the best way to go about it. If anything, it's only going to encourage the sentiment that greater acceptance of homosexuality is liberal perversion that outsiders are attempting to force upon the Church. If it's gonna happen, it's gotta happen organically.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2013, 09:35:21 PM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon

Isn't funny how an Episcopal educates people about Orthodoxy?  I suppose my question would be, "Why?"  Why start this if it has nothing to do with your own denomination, church, ordaining body, etc.?  Very dangerous indeed!


When I was going to the Episcopal Church, I heard talk of great love of Eastern Christian traditions.  Perhaps this is their shiny, new eastern branch and they're calling it "Orthodoxy"?  (Have we got a copyright on that word or...)

This is why I suggested people actually look at the webpage.  He has mutiple references to Eastern and Coptic Orthodox.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 09:37:01 PM by Kerdy »

Offline William

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2013, 09:41:50 PM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon

A former poster on this board is in a relationship with this priest.
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Offline John Larocque

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2013, 09:45:40 PM »
The Anglo-Catholic version of this is "Affirming Catholicism". i.e. they like their smells and bells and liberal theology. Anglicans are all over the place re: theology/doctrine versus worship style.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2013, 09:47:42 PM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon

A former poster on this board is in a relationship with this priest.

Are you saying a member of the clergy who promotes a certain lifestyle is part of that community and has a vested interest in its acceptance?  Say it isn’t so…

Offline William

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2013, 09:50:28 PM »
If it's gonna happen, it's gotta happen organically.

Yeah, because that'll happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-Obbd3jJp0
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline William

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2013, 09:52:16 PM »
It's owned and operated by an Episcopal priest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_R._Cannon

A former poster on this board is in a relationship with this priest.

Are you saying a member of the clergy who promotes a certain lifestyle is part of that community and has a vested interest in its acceptance?  Say it isn’t so…

Yep.

The thing that really messes my mind up is the whole being an Episcopal thing while trying to take Orthodox tradition seriously.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Velsigne

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2013, 09:56:05 PM »
I'd never heard of it until I saw this thread.

I had heard, however, of a recent interview on the topic of gay marriage that included as a guest an Orthodox Priest.

Found the interview:

Gene Robinson made news in 2003 when he became the first openly gay Episcopal bishop. Now he's written a book called God Believes in Love: Straight Talk about Gay Marriage...

GUESTS:

    Gene Robinson:  Ninth Bishop of the Episocal Diocese of New Hampshire and author of God Believes in Love: Straight Talk about Gay Marriage
  
 Josh Jeffery: Research fellow for Warner Pacific College
    
Sergei Sveshnikov: Priest at Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia Orthodox Church in Mulino


http://www.opb.org/thinkoutloud/shows/gene-robinson/


Fr. Sergei has very good comments.  He stands for both the Scripture and the Patristic Tradition, and I find his analysis to be more compelling than the Episcopalian Bishop's.  Fr. Sergei also realizes the difference between state and the Sacrament of Marriage within the Church.  Society can decide what they want, but the Sacraments will be the same.  

The difficulty will be if the state tries to impose itself on the Church.  And then there is all the cultural propaganda war surrounding this issue.  



The Bp. Gene Robinson even had a favorable response to Fr. Sergei.  

Offline Velsigne

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2013, 10:02:24 PM »
Now I just saw another thread requesting that homosexuality not be discussed on this board.  I don't really care to discuss it, it's a non-starter issue in my opinion. 

Just thought some might find it interesting to hear what Fr. Sergei had to say.

Please let me know if I should delete my post?

Thanks


Offline Kerdy

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2013, 10:10:38 PM »
I'd never heard of it until I saw this thread.
The difficulty will be if the state tries to impose itself on the Church.    

And it is happening.  Very difficult situation indeed.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2013, 10:12:21 PM »
Now I just saw another thread requesting that homosexuality not be discussed on this board.  I don't really care to discuss it, it's a non-starter issue in my opinion.  

Just thought some might find it interesting to hear what Fr. Sergei had to say.

Please let me know if I should delete my post?

Thanks

Unless that person is a moderator of that thread, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.  I found nothing wrong with your previous post.  If that person is a moderator, do as they ask.  The moderator of this thread is Carl Kraeff (Second Chance).
« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 10:18:34 PM by Kerdy »

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2013, 10:13:58 PM »
Now I just saw another thread requesting that homosexuality not be discussed on this board.  I don't really care to discuss it, it's a non-starter issue in my opinion. 

Just thought some might find it interesting to hear what Fr. Sergei had to say.

Please let me know if I should delete my post?

Thanks

There used to be a ban on discussing it. Those were good days.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2013, 10:19:01 PM »
Now I just saw another thread requesting that homosexuality not be discussed on this board.  I don't really care to discuss it, it's a non-starter issue in my opinion. 

Just thought some might find it interesting to hear what Fr. Sergei had to say.

Please let me know if I should delete my post?

Thanks

There used to be a ban on discussing it. Those were good days.

I imagine if things start to get personal and snarky, the ban will return.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2013, 10:21:00 PM »
Now I just saw another thread requesting that homosexuality not be discussed on this board.  I don't really care to discuss it, it's a non-starter issue in my opinion. 

Just thought some might find it interesting to hear what Fr. Sergei had to say.

Please let me know if I should delete my post?

Thanks

There used to be a ban on discussing it. Those were good days.

I imagine if things start to get personal and snarky, the ban will return.

I think there is a high personal/snarky threshhold.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Velsigne

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2013, 10:30:00 PM »
I'd never heard of it until I saw this thread.
The difficulty will be if the state tries to impose itself on the Church.    

And it is happening.  Very difficult situation indeed.

Wasn't aware of that.  In that case, it's comforting to hear a priest from Russia, where the Orthodox suffered so much, to say that the Sacraments will remain the same.  He is the Priest at Holy New Martyrs of Russia, and some people may wonder why those martyrs are relevant to Americans...

I hope it doesn't get that bad here.

Offline Velsigne

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Re: what is this inclusive Orthodoxy I keep hearing about?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2013, 10:31:11 PM »
Now I just saw another thread requesting that homosexuality not be discussed on this board.  I don't really care to discuss it, it's a non-starter issue in my opinion. 

Just thought some might find it interesting to hear what Fr. Sergei had to say.

Please let me know if I should delete my post?

Thanks

There used to be a ban on discussing it. Those were good days.

I imagine if things start to get personal and snarky, the ban will return.

I think there is a high personal/snarky threshhold.

Thanks for letting me know, Kerdy and Shanghaiski.