Author Topic: Does Free-Will Exist?  (Read 777 times)

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Offline JamesR

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Does Free-Will Exist?
« on: December 29, 2012, 11:27:32 PM »
Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.

Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.

I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline pmpn8rGPT

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 11:46:59 PM »
I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.
Regardless of whether or not free-will exists is not an excuse to do bad stuff, in fact, it is probably a sign that you are not one of the elect.

As far as your original question, I believe in free-will and the church also does.  Regardless of whether or not I and the church are correct, we must be attentive to The Laws of The Church and The Scriptures.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 11:48:49 PM »
I believe free will exists.

If free will did not exist, then God would be ultimately responsible whether you are granted salvation or the 2nd death.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 12:01:04 AM »
Fwiw, if you haven't read it yet, the Thirteenth Conference of St. John Cassian (summary here) might be of some interest to you.
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Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 01:15:59 AM »
Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.

Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.

I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.


See what you typed? if Free Will didn't exist you wouldn't be able to type that.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 05:48:46 AM »
Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.

Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.

I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.


See what you typed? if Free Will didn't exist you wouldn't be able to type that.

Says who? Why can't be it be claimed that determined events led me into typing that post along with the post I am typing right now?
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 06:35:35 AM »
Free will exists.  If not, what is the point?

Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 10:51:43 PM »
Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.

Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.

I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.


See what you typed? if Free Will didn't exist you wouldn't be able to type that.

Says who? Why can't be it be claimed that determined events led me into typing that post along with the post I am typing right now?

so according to you, you didn't decide to type that. decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 11:42:33 PM »
...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.

It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 11:45:38 PM »
What if I was predestined to type this of my own free will?
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Offline Aindriú

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 12:44:06 AM »
Must not type this... nOOOOOOOOO

I kid, but seriously this is just another excuse for others to use as a crutch for their lack of fortune/bad choices/nihilist agenda/etc.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 12:45:47 AM by Aindriú »

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Offline tweety234

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2013, 02:08:25 PM »
does it? I am not sure anymore. I mean is it a free will choice that 2 year old babies get baptised as christians, and learn about christianity, or any religion for that matter. If they remain in that religion when they are old. Is it a completely free will choice? or is it a "what if" doubt that was imparted in their subconscious mind as little children? which one is it? If we can't freely choose for us, but depend on our subconscious which is full of other people's thoughts, opinions, decissions and all that. Then where is our free will?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 02:09:49 PM by tweety234 »
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Offline biro

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2013, 05:54:12 PM »
Free will exists.  If not, what is the point?

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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2013, 07:38:03 PM »
does it? I am not sure anymore. I mean is it a free will choice that 2 year old babies get baptised as christians, and learn about christianity, or any religion for that matter. If they remain in that religion when they are old. Is it a completely free will choice? or is it a "what if" doubt that was imparted in their subconscious mind as little children? which one is it? If we can't freely choose for us, but depend on our subconscious which is full of other people's thoughts, opinions, decissions and all that. Then where is our free will?

You don't have control over your subconscious?

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2013, 11:34:32 PM »
What if I was predestined to type this of my own free will?

Every time you ask questions like that, John Calvin cries.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 12:29:24 AM »
What if I was predestined to type this of my own free will?

Then its not to your credit, or not to your fault....

Me either....
Or for typing me either....  <<--- Or that.nn :o
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Offline Gamliel

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 12:47:08 AM »
No.  Yes.

Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 03:02:57 AM »
...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.

It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here.

Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 03:13:02 AM »
Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will

"One part dream, one part sound business decision"

Offline Aindriú

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 11:30:45 AM »
Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will

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Offline Ashman618

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2013, 01:34:02 PM »
...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.

It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here.

Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will

An all powerful deceiver is a contradiction, because deception is used for gain and someone with everything would need nothing. I actually like that! Thank you, where does that come from, is that your saying?

Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2013, 02:25:53 PM »
...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.

It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here.

Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will

An all powerful deceiver is a contradiction, because deception is used for gain and someone with everything would need nothing. I actually like that! Thank you, where does that come from, is that your saying?


Nope, learned it from fellow philosophers, I could boast and say it's mine, but honestly anyone could use this, anyone could destroy "atheism" in a second.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2013, 04:58:54 PM »
Does free will exist? I can't decide.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Does Free-Will Exist?
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2013, 07:45:04 PM »
Does free will exist? I can't decide.

That was funny.