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Author Topic: Does Free-Will Exist?  (Read 706 times) Average Rating: 0
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JamesR
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« on: December 29, 2012, 11:27:32 PM »

Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.

Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.

I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 11:46:59 PM »

I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.
Regardless of whether or not free-will exists is not an excuse to do bad stuff, in fact, it is probably a sign that you are not one of the elect.

As far as your original question, I believe in free-will and the church also does.  Regardless of whether or not I and the church are correct, we must be attentive to The Laws of The Church and The Scriptures.
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 11:48:49 PM »

I believe free will exists.

If free will did not exist, then God would be ultimately responsible whether you are granted salvation or the 2nd death.
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 12:01:04 AM »

Fwiw, if you haven't read it yet, the Thirteenth Conference of St. John Cassian (summary here) might be of some interest to you.
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SavedByChrist94
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 01:15:59 AM »

Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.

Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.

I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.


See what you typed? if Free Will didn't exist you wouldn't be able to type that.
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 05:48:46 AM »

Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.

Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.

I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.


See what you typed? if Free Will didn't exist you wouldn't be able to type that.

Says who? Why can't be it be claimed that determined events led me into typing that post along with the post I am typing right now?
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 06:35:35 AM »

Free will exists.  If not, what is the point?
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 10:51:43 PM »

Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.

Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.

I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.


See what you typed? if Free Will didn't exist you wouldn't be able to type that.

Says who? Why can't be it be claimed that determined events led me into typing that post along with the post I am typing right now?

so according to you, you didn't decide to type that. decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.
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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 11:42:33 PM »

...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.

It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here.
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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 11:45:38 PM »

What if I was predestined to type this of my own free will?
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 12:44:06 AM »

Must not type this... nOOOOOOOOO

I kid, but seriously this is just another excuse for others to use as a crutch for their lack of fortune/bad choices/nihilist agenda/etc.
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2013, 02:08:25 PM »

does it? I am not sure anymore. I mean is it a free will choice that 2 year old babies get baptised as christians, and learn about christianity, or any religion for that matter. If they remain in that religion when they are old. Is it a completely free will choice? or is it a "what if" doubt that was imparted in their subconscious mind as little children? which one is it? If we can't freely choose for us, but depend on our subconscious which is full of other people's thoughts, opinions, decissions and all that. Then where is our free will?
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2013, 05:54:12 PM »

Free will exists.  If not, what is the point?

The end of a pencil.
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2013, 07:38:03 PM »

does it? I am not sure anymore. I mean is it a free will choice that 2 year old babies get baptised as christians, and learn about christianity, or any religion for that matter. If they remain in that religion when they are old. Is it a completely free will choice? or is it a "what if" doubt that was imparted in their subconscious mind as little children? which one is it? If we can't freely choose for us, but depend on our subconscious which is full of other people's thoughts, opinions, decissions and all that. Then where is our free will?

You don't have control over your subconscious?
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2013, 11:34:32 PM »

What if I was predestined to type this of my own free will?

Every time you ask questions like that, John Calvin cries.
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 12:29:24 AM »

What if I was predestined to type this of my own free will?

Then its not to your credit, or not to your fault....

Me either....
Or for typing me either....  <<--- Or that.nn Shocked
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 12:47:08 AM »

No.  Yes.
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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 03:02:57 AM »

...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.

It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here.

Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 03:13:02 AM »

Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will

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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 11:30:45 AM »

Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will

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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2013, 01:34:02 PM »

...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.

It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here.

Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will

An all powerful deceiver is a contradiction, because deception is used for gain and someone with everything would need nothing. I actually like that! Thank you, where does that come from, is that your saying?
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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2013, 02:25:53 PM »

...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.

It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here.

Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)

Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world  had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will

An all powerful deceiver is a contradiction, because deception is used for gain and someone with everything would need nothing. I actually like that! Thank you, where does that come from, is that your saying?


Nope, learned it from fellow philosophers, I could boast and say it's mine, but honestly anyone could use this, anyone could destroy "atheism" in a second.
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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2013, 04:58:54 PM »

Does free will exist? I can't decide.
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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2013, 07:45:04 PM »

Does free will exist? I can't decide.

That was funny.
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