OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 26, 2014, 11:06:36 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Ethiopian Traditions  (Read 20827 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2009, 12:01:04 PM »

Good, I am glad that I remained faithful to your Tradition.  Wink I take it that my adding Kyrie Elieson, instead of Kirya Layson, is not problematic? Any other Ethiopian prayer traditions would be great. I would love to see a pic of your prayer sticks, especially the notches on the stick itself. God Bless.
Logged
Hiywot
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahido
Posts: 149


« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2009, 05:01:36 AM »

PoorFoolNicholas,

Kirya layson is the Ge’ez pronunciation of Kyrie elison. If you want to indicate this, you can put it as an additional information in bracket.

There are some pictures of prayer sticks in the following links.

www.nmafa.si.edu/exhibits/icons/faith.html
www.travelswithsheila.com/lalibelas_northwest...
flickr.com/photos/26531761@N00/86758303

Hiywot
Logged
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2009, 10:06:57 AM »

Ethiopian Orthodox Mequteria Prayers

In the Ethiopian Orthodox Tradition, the commonly used prayer ropes are those with 41, and 64 beads, also known as a Mequteria. 41 is the number of lashes that Jesus received and 64 is the age of the Theotokos at her Assumption. Some monks and hermits use 150 to 300 beads, or even more than that.

When using the 41 bead Mequteria , the prayers recited are:

1. The Lord's Prayer with Gabriel's Salutation:

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. O, Our Lady Virgin Mary, we hail thee by the salutation of Angel Gabriel. Thou are virgin in thy mind. Thou are virgin in thy body. Hail Mary, Mother of Almighty God.  Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Rejoice Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Pray for us to your beloved Son, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, so that he may forgive us our sins now and forever Amen." (12 times)

2. Lord have mercy on us (41 times)

3. In the name of Mary, Lord have mercy on us (41 times)

4. Kirya Layson (Kyrie Elieson) (41 times)

5. Sador (the piercing on the ribs by the lancet), Alador (the piercing on the right hand), Danat (the piercing on the left palm), Adera (the piercing on right foot), Rodas (the piercing on the left foot) (41 times)

6. O! God (41 times)

7. O! Christ (41 times)

8. Save us from wrath and deliver us by your mercy, in the name of Mary Your Mother (41 times)

9. Hear us! Our God and Savior (41 times)

10. Elohe! (Pronounced as “Elohee” and is the same as “Eloi” mentioned in Mt. 27:46) (41 times)

11. Ye! Ye! Ye! (Pronounced as “Yae” meaning “woe to me”) My God see me! (41 times)

12. O! God according to your mercy and not according to our sin (12 times)

13. Lord remember us in thy Kingdom (12 times)

14. The Magnificat:

"Hail Mary, we bow unto thee. Our Mother Mary we pray unto thee. We beseech thee to protect us from the evil beast. O! Virgin, in the name of Anna your mother, and Joachim your father, bless our congregation today!! Amen. The prayer of the Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God: My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree. He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever. Amen. (7 times)

These are the 14 common recitations by all those who use the Mequteria. One can, however, add more according to his or her needs or interests. When using a 64 bead Mequteria all the prayers recited 41 times, will instead, be recited 64 times. Those prayers recited 7, or 12 times remain the same.

There you go Hiywot. I think that this is the final, and hopefully faithful representation. I believe I will now post it under the Oriental Orthodox Prayers Thread. Thanks, and God Bless!
Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,500


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2009, 05:17:19 PM »

Ethiopian Orthodox Mequteria Prayers

In the Ethiopian Orthodox Tradition, the commonly used prayer ropes are those with 41, and 64 beads, also known as a Mequteria. 41 is the number of lashes that Jesus received and 64 is the age of the Theotokos at her Assumption. Some monks and hermits use 150 to 300 beads, or even more than that.

When using the 41 bead Mequteria , the prayers recited are:

1. The Lord's Prayer with Gabriel's Salutation:

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. O, Our Lady Virgin Mary, we hail thee by the salutation of Angel Gabriel. Thou are virgin in thy mind. Thou are virgin in thy body. Hail Mary, Mother of Almighty God.  Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. Rejoice Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Pray for us to your beloved Son, Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, so that he may forgive us our sins now and forever Amen." (12 times)

2. Lord have mercy on us (41 times)

3. In the name of Mary, Lord have mercy on us (41 times)

4. Kirya Layson (Kyrie Elieson) (41 times)

5. Sador (the piercing on the ribs by the lancet), Alador (the piercing on the right hand), Danat (the piercing on the left palm), Adera (the piercing on right foot), Rodas (the piercing on the left foot) (41 times)

6. O! God (41 times)

7. O! Christ (41 times)

8. Save us from wrath and deliver us by your mercy, in the name of Mary Your Mother (41 times)

9. Hear us! Our God and Savior (41 times)

10. Elohe! (Pronounced as “Elohee” and is the same as “Eloi” mentioned in Mt. 27:46) (41 times)

11. Ye! Ye! Ye! (Pronounced as “Yae” meaning “woe to me”) My God see me! (41 times)

12. O! God according to your mercy and not according to our sin (12 times)

13. Lord remember us in thy Kingdom (12 times)

14. The Magnificat:

"Hail Mary, we bow unto thee. Our Mother Mary we pray unto thee. We beseech thee to protect us from the evil beast. O! Virgin, in the name of Anna your mother, and Joachim your father, bless our congregation today!! Amen. The prayer of the Blessed Virgin Mary Mother of God: My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree. He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever. Amen. (7 times)

These are the 14 common recitations by all those who use the Mequteria. One can, however, add more according to his or her needs or interests. When using a 64 bead Mequteria all the prayers recited 41 times, will instead, be recited 64 times. Those prayers recited 7, or 12 times remain the same.

There you go Hiywot. I think that this is the final, and hopefully faithful representation. I believe I will now post it under the Oriental Orthodox Prayers Thread. Thanks, and God Bless!

Thank you for taking an interest in these holy and mystical prayers. They have been a great blessing in my life, and I know they shall bless others.

If only I were more faithful in praying them!

Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
PoorFoolNicholas
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Theologoumenon
Posts: 1,664


« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2009, 05:44:30 PM »

Thank you for taking an interest in these holy and mystical prayers. They have been a great blessing in my life, and I know they shall bless others.

If only I were more faithful in praying them!

Selam
I absolutely love them. I wish I were faithful as well. God Bless.
Logged
AmdeBirhan
Pillar of Light
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Christian
Jurisdiction: ArchDiocese Western Hemisphere
Posts: 22



« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2009, 02:26:43 PM »

Oh Our Holy Lady Maryam, while bowinng unto you we beseech you to save us from wild and predatory animals for the sake of Hanna thy mother and Iyakim thy father, oh Virgin Maryam, today bless our congregation!

Is how we NJ EOTC have this prayer translated, though the meaninng is the same...
AmdeBirhan
Logged

For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing assunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.- HEB 4v12
Aidan
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 126



« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2009, 04:09:25 PM »

I noticed that the Lord's prayer ends with '....and deliver us from the evil one.' I have noticed that most Eastern Orthodox finish with the concrete 'one' whereas Copts leave that off i church. I have two translations of the Agpeya and they agree with church usage.

I think that is a pity. What do you think?
Logged
AmdeBirhan
Pillar of Light
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Christian
Jurisdiction: ArchDiocese Western Hemisphere
Posts: 22



« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2009, 03:50:17 PM »

ummm...  we here in NJ... we just say "deliver us from all evil." 
Logged

For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing assunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.- HEB 4v12
Aidan
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 126



« Reply #53 on: June 18, 2009, 04:30:44 PM »

OK, that's what most people say. But we are talking about a person when we say 'deliver us from the evil one', not an abstract entnity. Surely concreteness is an important difference marking it out from many other Christian belief systems ?

In Christ

Terry
Logged
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,658



WWW
« Reply #54 on: June 18, 2009, 05:22:19 PM »

Interesting points here..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Prayer#.22But_deliver_us_from_evil.22

Father Peter
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,164



« Reply #55 on: June 18, 2009, 08:43:44 PM »

I noticed that the Lord's prayer ends with '....and deliver us from the evil one.' I have noticed that most Eastern Orthodox finish with the concrete 'one' whereas Copts leave that off i church. I have two translations of the Agpeya and they agree with church usage.

I think that is a pity. What do you think?

The Coptic says "bi-bed-hoow" which means "the-he/it-who-is-evil"

The other day, after a heated exchange over calling Tiller the "baby killer," and the traversty of a multiple child rapist getting basically off in OK, O'Reilley was reflecting that he had gotten worked up about these cases.  One of the guests said: "That's natural: you understand that evil is not an abstraction.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,164



« Reply #56 on: June 18, 2009, 08:50:49 PM »

ummm...  we here in NJ... we just say "deliver us from all evil." 

Comment in politics:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21879.new.html#new
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
AmdeBirhan
Pillar of Light
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Christian
Jurisdiction: ArchDiocese Western Hemisphere
Posts: 22



« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2009, 08:39:41 AM »



[/quote]
Comment in politics:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,21879.new.html#new
[/quote]

uhmmm...  couldnt open this link Ialmisry (what does your name mean?)...

I looked up EVIL-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil
Which basically says CRUEL, UNJUST, SELFISH...   which one may sight as having an original source- ie the devil, but it is definitely not limited to 'one' as many are affected by the original and in fact we all struggle against and may be contaminated to some degree...
     I dont know how often I may be CRUEL, but more likely UNJUST or SELFISH...  unintentionally of course, or maybe even out of 'necessity' or due to pressures...  so I will be praying to be saved from ALL EVIL for my days here.  By the way, we chant that Christ Our Lord has bound Satan- freed Adam.  (EOTC)  But I know that his powers, angelic and spiritual in origin are not limited to his 'physical presence' (the evil one', not an abstract entnity.- AIDAN) which I recall tht he was made a serpent, (or was the serpent cursed because of him?) but that he is called the 'Prince of the air', able to extend his influence beyond his binding place/prison.  In other words, because he is the source of evil, I dont think that all evil is confined to him.  THoughts?

your brother in the struggle to be Christ-like, may we be sucessful
Amde Birhan
Logged

For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing assunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.- HEB 4v12
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,500


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2009, 05:16:41 PM »

Very good points brother. Smiley

Selam

« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 05:20:53 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
Rosehip
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 2,760



« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2009, 02:46:35 PM »

I was reading about Protestant groups evangelizing in Ethiopia and their dilemmas regarding what to do with people in polygamous relationships. This led me to wonder about the extent of this practice in Ethiopia and the stance of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church on this issue.
Logged

+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,500


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2009, 03:22:14 PM »

I was reading about Protestant groups evangelizing in Ethiopia and their dilemmas regarding what to do with people in polygamous relationships. This led me to wonder about the extent of this practice in Ethiopia and the stance of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church on this issue.

Our Church DOES NOT PERMIT POLYGAMY!!!

Rosehip, I think this is another example of Evangelical Protestants acting and speaking in ignorance. They are probably lumping Orthodox Christians in with Muslims and some Rastafarians in Ethiopia that do often practice polygamy. But Ethiopian Orthodox Christians are Christians, and thus our Church honors, preserves, and upholds the sacrament of marriage between one man and one woman.

Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
witega
Is it enough now, to tell you you matter?
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Diocese of the South
Posts: 1,614


« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2009, 03:34:28 PM »

I could well be misreading it myself, but I think you took Rosehip's question in more narrow/accusatory stance than it was meant:

"the extent of this practice in Ethiopia" - is straightforward and you actually partially answered it. She didn't ask about it's practice in the Ethiopian Church but among those fairly significant portions of the population of the country of Ethiopia who are not Christian.

"Protestant groups ... dilemmas regarding what to do with people in polygamous relationships ... and the stance of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church on this issue":
From the context I think she was asking something I'm now curious about myself (and not only for the Ethiopian Orthodox Church but for any church in Africa or the Middle East which at least potentially may have a polygamist convert)--what is the general position of the Church for a female convert whose husband has multiple wives? How about for a male convert who has multiple wives? (And does the handling vary depending on whether the wives convert as well)?
Logged

Ariel Starling - New album

For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great
Rosehip
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 2,760



« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2009, 03:34:58 PM »

Yes, I figured Ethiopian Orthodox would not practise this, but wondered how wide-spread both the custom and even Orthodoxy is in Ethiopia. I rather had the impression most of Ethiopia was Orthodox-but apparently not? Huh Why are Evangelicals needing to start churches over there? Is the Ethiopian Orthodox Church doing any evangelizing? What would the Ethiopian Orthodox Church do in the case of such a family converting to Orthodoxy rather than Protestantism? Sorry so many questions all at once!
Logged

+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
Rosehip
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 2,760



« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2009, 03:38:49 PM »

Great minds think alike, witega! Wink (or at least they post at the same time)!
Logged

+ Our dear sister Martha (Rosehip) passed away on Dec 20, 2010.  May her memory be eternal! +
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,500


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2009, 04:12:48 PM »

I apologize for misunderstanding your question Rosehip. Thanks guys, for the clarification.

I'm afraid I cannot answer the original question. Perhaps Hiywot, HaileAmanuel, AmdeBirhan, or someone else can shed some insight into this question. I'm sure the Church has a specific way to handle these cases, especially since they seem to be prevalent amongst the non-Christian Ethiopian population.

As far as the Evangelicals infiltrating Ethiopia: This is a real problem, especially the Pentecostals. Many people are being deceived by these demonic movements that are leading people away from their historic apostolic Faith. Satan has always set his sites on Ethiopia, but God has preserved her people and her Church. Right now many evil forces are combining to form a perfect storm that is wreaking havoc in Ethiopia. Islam, Evangelicalism, and Communism are all rearing their ugly heads and  threatening to undermine the Orthodox Church. So please pray for Ethiopia and for the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

Emperor Haile Selassie never discouraged Protestant missionaries from entering Ethiopia, but he told them not to proselytize amongst Orthodox Christians. He always asked why Christians were trying to cnvert Christians.

Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
simplygermain
beer-bellied tellitubby
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA - Northwest, Baby!
Posts: 771


Zechariah 11:7


WWW
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2009, 06:14:32 PM »

Not to get off-topic but it seems that Protestantism is encroaching on many different Orthodox Countries.
Logged

I believe, help Thou my unbelief!! - St. John of Krondstadt

http://Http://hairshirtagenda.blogspot.com

 Witega: "Bishops and Metropolitans and even Patriarchs have been removed under decidedly questionable circumstances before but the Church moves on."
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,658



WWW
« Reply #66 on: July 17, 2009, 03:17:51 AM »

From a Protestant point of view (and I was an Evangelical) it is not encroaching at all. Rather with their understanding of Orthodoxy as being a false and superstitious religion they feel obliged to bring their own interpretation of the Gospel to the lands where Orthodoxy is prevalent.

It seems to me that there are several responses to this challenge.

i. We must ask what it is within Protestantism that attracts some Orthodox and leads them away from the Church. Of course some areas are simply wrong and the person is making a bad choice. But there are other good things which we must learn from. Are they finding a friendly environment with people who show interest in them? Is it that they are finding it hard to understand the worship of their own Orthodox community? Have they missed out on teaching which personalises their faith and shows them how Orthodoxy is essentially a spiritual pilgrimage and not a matter of ritual obligations? We should not simply copy Protestant practice, but we should reflect on our own Church ministry and service and ask if we are failing to be the Church in some aspect.

ii. We must engage with Protestantism in the West such that there is a better understanding of our faith, and so that leaders who support Protestant mission in the Orthodox homelands have actually met intelligent, spiritual Orthodox people in the West and can come to see that what is needed is a partnership to support the Orthodox Church mission, and not any activities which undermine the Orthodox Churches. This is indeed a ministry which is required from all of our churches in the West. Do all of the Protestatnt Churches in our area know about us? Do they know what we believe, or only what they think we believe?

iii. We must be able to confront the false teachings of Protestantism in an eirienic manner, assuming the best of people, but also pointing out the weaknesses of various other non-Orthodox systems. A great many Protestants live holy lives and are committed to Christ. It is not appropriate to paint Protestantism as worse than it is. Indeed if we cannot persuade our own people by our example and by our teaching of the truth of Orthodoxy then turning to political and legal challenges to people's right to freedom of belief seems to me to show that we have nothing to offer. But of course we do. Nevertheless it requires a gentle response to both the questions and anxieties of our own people, and to the teachings of Protestantism.

If we lose a soul to Protestantism, or atheism, or Islam, then we should ask ourselves where we have failed rather than blaming others. Let God judge the others. Off the top of my head I can think of many reasons why Orthodox might fall away, but none of them seem to me to be the fault of the one falling away, or the community into which that person is drawn.

Father Peter
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,500


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #67 on: July 17, 2009, 04:46:35 AM »

From a Protestant point of view (and I was an Evangelical) it is not encroaching at all. Rather with their understanding of Orthodoxy as being a false and superstitious religion they feel obliged to bring their own interpretation of the Gospel to the lands where Orthodoxy is prevalent.

It seems to me that there are several responses to this challenge.

i. We must ask what it is within Protestantism that attracts some Orthodox and leads them away from the Church. Of course some areas are simply wrong and the person is making a bad choice. But there are other good things which we must learn from. Are they finding a friendly environment with people who show interest in them? Is it that they are finding it hard to understand the worship of their own Orthodox community? Have they missed out on teaching which personalises their faith and shows them how Orthodoxy is essentially a spiritual pilgrimage and not a matter of ritual obligations? We should not simply copy Protestant practice, but we should reflect on our own Church ministry and service and ask if we are failing to be the Church in some aspect.

ii. We must engage with Protestantism in the West such that there is a better understanding of our faith, and so that leaders who support Protestant mission in the Orthodox homelands have actually met intelligent, spiritual Orthodox people in the West and can come to see that what is needed is a partnership to support the Orthodox Church mission, and not any activities which undermine the Orthodox Churches. This is indeed a ministry which is required from all of our churches in the West. Do all of the Protestatnt Churches in our area know about us? Do they know what we believe, or only what they think we believe?

iii. We must be able to confront the false teachings of Protestantism in an eirienic manner, assuming the best of people, but also pointing out the weaknesses of various other non-Orthodox systems. A great many Protestants live holy lives and are committed to Christ. It is not appropriate to paint Protestantism as worse than it is. Indeed if we cannot persuade our own people by our example and by our teaching of the truth of Orthodoxy then turning to political and legal challenges to people's right to freedom of belief seems to me to show that we have nothing to offer. But of course we do. Nevertheless it requires a gentle response to both the questions and anxieties of our own people, and to the teachings of Protestantism.

If we lose a soul to Protestantism, or atheism, or Islam, then we should ask ourselves where we have failed rather than blaming others. Let God judge the others. Off the top of my head I can think of many reasons why Orthodox might fall away, but none of them seem to me to be the fault of the one falling away, or the community into which that person is drawn.

Father Peter

Dear Father Peter,

You are correct in stating that self examination is the key to understanding this problem. I am not one to look upon Protestants as spiritually "lost," and I do not consider the majority of Protestants to be heretics. Indeed we must ask these very questions that you raise, and consider wise responses.

My humble opinion is that people are led away from Orthodoxy and into Protestantism because it easier to be Protestant than to be Orthodox. Protestantism, for the most part, teaches a once saved always saved doctrine; they emphasize divine grace to the point of disparaging human works; their worship is based on entertainment rather than the Divine Liturgy (Greek: "Work"); and Protestants are encouraged to interpret the Bible for themselves. I know these are harsh generalizations; but, like you, I also used to be an Evangelical Protestant.

Most Evangelicals would not dare to darken the door of an Orthodox Church, but they expect us to gladly come to their "worship services." So we must walk a fine line between being "eirinic" (seeking peace and unity) and standing firm in our convictions. The onus is upon the non-Orthodox (heterodox, i.e. Catholics and Protestants), and yet we Orthodox too often find ourselves in the defensive position. We must therefore boldy proclaim the Orthodox light, and not allow the sectarians to think that they have the whole truth. No Christian has the whole truth, but we Orthodox have the ancient and established apostolic truths that were divinely instituted by Our Lord Himslef. May we never settle for or be deceived by less!



Selam
 
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
Father Peter
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: British Orthodox Church within the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate
Posts: 2,658



WWW
« Reply #68 on: July 17, 2009, 05:46:46 AM »

Dear brother

I agree with you, and I would not wish to diminish the attractions of especially the more Pentecostal and American funded missions.

But I wonder if it is so hard to be a nominal sort of Orthodox. There are a great many among the hundreds of millions who are counted as Orthodox who attend church very irregularly, know little of their faith, and find the services of the Church almost incomprehensible. For many of these people Orthodoxy is part of their culture, but they are not moving very far, if at all, along the path towards life and light in Christ.

I wonder if some of those who become Protestant do so because they do not find what they are searching for in their particular experience? Are they looking for clear teaching, accessible worship - and many evangelical services I have attended in my life have been as long as Coptic liturgies - and a sense of community? These are not things that are anti-Orthodox, but it seems to me after 15 years of corresponding with Orthodox people around the world that it is not something that everyone experiences.

I guess I am only suggesting that if we do work to provide clear teaching about the faith, if we do provide understandable worship - not least through education, and if we do seek to develop communities of people in our churches, then the attractions of Protestantism for those who are genuinely seeking a deeper spiritual life will be lessened. I do not doubt that there will always be traffic between the various Churches for private and personal reasons. But if there is a situation then it seems to me that it is always good to ask - what can we learn from this?

Now about sharing our life and faith with Protestants. It would perhaps be wisest to focus on those things which they think we lack, rather than those things which most seem to reinforce their negative views. We do love the Bible. We do focus on a personal spiritual life in Christ. We do engage in practical works of service and in mission. We should not try to say 'we are like you', but we should seek to make them reconsider their false understanding of our Church.

One thing which I think could be done, and I have thought about for some years. Is to record on a ebsite somewhere all the misrepresentations of our Church and encourage contact with the websites and organisations that misrepresent us, offering good, eirenic, coherent, English responses to what is said. So much is simply ignorance, not illwill, and this might in itself play a part in changing the perspective of Protestant groups in the West.

Father Peter
Logged

Lord have mercy upon me a sinner
http://www.orthodoxmedway.org

My blog - http://anorthodoxpriest.blogspot.co.uk

The poster formerly known as peterfarrington
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,500


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #69 on: July 17, 2009, 05:47:05 PM »

Dear brother

I agree with you, and I would not wish to diminish the attractions of especially the more Pentecostal and American funded missions.

But I wonder if it is so hard to be a nominal sort of Orthodox. There are a great many among the hundreds of millions who are counted as Orthodox who attend church very irregularly, know little of their faith, and find the services of the Church almost incomprehensible. For many of these people Orthodoxy is part of their culture, but they are not moving very far, if at all, along the path towards life and light in Christ.

I wonder if some of those who become Protestant do so because they do not find what they are searching for in their particular experience? Are they looking for clear teaching, accessible worship - and many evangelical services I have attended in my life have been as long as Coptic liturgies - and a sense of community? These are not things that are anti-Orthodox, but it seems to me after 15 years of corresponding with Orthodox people around the world that it is not something that everyone experiences.

I guess I am only suggesting that if we do work to provide clear teaching about the faith, if we do provide understandable worship - not least through education, and if we do seek to develop communities of people in our churches, then the attractions of Protestantism for those who are genuinely seeking a deeper spiritual life will be lessened. I do not doubt that there will always be traffic between the various Churches for private and personal reasons. But if there is a situation then it seems to me that it is always good to ask - what can we learn from this?

Now about sharing our life and faith with Protestants. It would perhaps be wisest to focus on those things which they think we lack, rather than those things which most seem to reinforce their negative views. We do love the Bible. We do focus on a personal spiritual life in Christ. We do engage in practical works of service and in mission. We should not try to say 'we are like you', but we should seek to make them reconsider their false understanding of our Church.

One thing which I think could be done, and I have thought about for some years. Is to record on a ebsite somewhere all the misrepresentations of our Church and encourage contact with the websites and organisations that misrepresent us, offering good, eirenic, coherent, English responses to what is said. So much is simply ignorance, not illwill, and this might in itself play a part in changing the perspective of Protestant groups in the West.

Father Peter

Dear Father Peter,

I agree with all that you say. I myself fail miserably to live out my Orthodox Faith the way that I should. Satan will always try to obscure the Light, but we are called to shine the Light. I think you have given some excellent suggestions on how we may better "let our light so shine before men that they may see our good works and glorify Our Father in heaven." Please let me know how I can be of service in this good and noble cause.

Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
AmdeBirhan
Pillar of Light
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Christian
Jurisdiction: ArchDiocese Western Hemisphere
Posts: 22



« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2009, 06:11:56 PM »

I would love to teach others about Our Unique and True Church, however we must preserve the Integrity of the Orthodox Faith. holding firm the Teachings and Doctrine.  I am recieving ample guidance and teaching about our True Faith and the Faithful Saints and Martyrs that have fought the good fight against defilement and heresy, and yet I feel there is much to learn still, (possibly from experience) in order to sucessfully answer those interested in our Church.
  I recently met a Jamiacan woman who has grown up in the US since she was nine, who was instruced by a protestant 'wise man' for many years (20?) into a state of alarming 'self-knowledge', having found the 'answers' to some of her spiritual questions, which were heretical views of grave error, such as 'CHrist is God, but not Jesus!!!' so that she rejects CHURCH saying she does not see herself 'fitting in'.  I wonder if such free thinkers have ever heard of Hermas the Shepherd (lost books of the Bible) who met with the Church of Our Lord and God.
   After a four hour conversation I left off feeling empty and beguiled, that I had wasted my time, and was reminded that the experience and knowledge I had gained was in part,preparation for my service in the Ministry of OUr Saviour, and invaluable real-life trainning.
 
     It seems that the enemy of truth has set people's minds firmly in error and that many are in need of Divine Intervension as Our Beloved Father, the Light of the Church Saint Paul the Apostle experienced as he was blinded by the Light of Christ, and doing a 180 degree turn to serve Him.
   
  Today our Gabriel Congregation learned how St Peter preached in Alexandria before two hundred rulers at a council, ie senate, and turned ONE of them, Costicos (sp?) and he in turn reached his wife, and they had two sons one of whom became St Peters disciple St. Clement. 

   I say all of this to illustrate that in our great efforts, ie travel, media, time, money, we should be preapared to expect QUality and Not Quantity in the reaping of our fruits, but not to be stingy in spreading our spiritual seeds, for by the Grace of God they will grow and become the sweetest and most nourishing fruits.

Lord, Bless us and Increase Thine Inheritance, Amen
Logged

For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing assunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.- HEB 4v12
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,500


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #71 on: July 28, 2009, 02:13:03 AM »

I would love to teach others about Our Unique and True Church, however we must preserve the Integrity of the Orthodox Faith. holding firm the Teachings and Doctrine.  I am recieving ample guidance and teaching about our True Faith and the Faithful Saints and Martyrs that have fought the good fight against defilement and heresy, and yet I feel there is much to learn still, (possibly from experience) in order to sucessfully answer those interested in our Church.
  I recently met a Jamiacan woman who has grown up in the US since she was nine, who was instruced by a protestant 'wise man' for many years (20?) into a state of alarming 'self-knowledge', having found the 'answers' to some of her spiritual questions, which were heretical views of grave error, such as 'CHrist is God, but not Jesus!!!' so that she rejects CHURCH saying she does not see herself 'fitting in'.  I wonder if such free thinkers have ever heard of Hermas the Shepherd (lost books of the Bible) who met with the Church of Our Lord and God.
   After a four hour conversation I left off feeling empty and beguiled, that I had wasted my time, and was reminded that the experience and knowledge I had gained was in part,preparation for my service in the Ministry of OUr Saviour, and invaluable real-life trainning.
 
     It seems that the enemy of truth has set people's minds firmly in error and that many are in need of Divine Intervension as Our Beloved Father, the Light of the Church Saint Paul the Apostle experienced as he was blinded by the Light of Christ, and doing a 180 degree turn to serve Him.
   
  Today our Gabriel Congregation learned how St Peter preached in Alexandria before two hundred rulers at a council, ie senate, and turned ONE of them, Costicos (sp?) and he in turn reached his wife, and they had two sons one of whom became St Peters disciple St. Clement. 

   I say all of this to illustrate that in our great efforts, ie travel, media, time, money, we should be preapared to expect QUality and Not Quantity in the reaping of our fruits, but not to be stingy in spreading our spiritual seeds, for by the Grace of God they will grow and become the sweetest and most nourishing fruits.

Lord, Bless us and Increase Thine Inheritance, Amen

What a beautiful statement AmdeBirhan! I am envious (a sin I know Embarrassed) of your access to deep EOTC teaching and instruction. But I am so happy for you, and I will pray for you as you learn and grow wise in the true Faith.

Forgive me if what I am about to say causes you any embarrassment, but I am a living example of what you have just stated. [Those who are reading this should know that brother AmdeBirhan was deeply instrumental in leading me into the Orthodox Church. He was so kind to talk with me by phone on many occasions and answer my many questions. AmdeBirhan and I share a similar Rastafarian background, and I am deeply grateful for his ministry to me. Because of his efforts, my family is now a part of the ancient and true Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Faith.]

So dear brother, it is true what you say: Quality is more important than quantity. Your 4 hour conversation with this woman you mention may have left you feeling discouraged, but you can always think of me as one person who is the fruit of your righteous labor. I shall always be grateful to you my friend and brother!!! Smiley Smiley Smiley

Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
AmdeBirhan
Pillar of Light
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Christian
Jurisdiction: ArchDiocese Western Hemisphere
Posts: 22



« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2009, 11:55:55 AM »

No bredren.  It is NOT a sin to desire spiritual gifts, as St Paul says to desire them.  I feel it is a blessing for me to desire the TRUTH, and so I was named AMDE BIRHAN, for I will stand for what is right and in the Light of Christ. 
   We are also both caucasian bredren, which is very rare, showing our election is from God and not from man, for He has guided us truly, as individuals, and not due to family or social influences, but from the calling of God withi our hearts. 
  To partake in the Kigdom of God in this ancient Orthodox Ethiopian Tradition is a true blessing and gift indeed!  TO worship in one of the oldest languages, touge of man, Ge'ez, connects us more fully to the Kingdom of God, wherein are all the Saints and Martyrs and Righteos praising God with the angels ceaselessly!  Of course we cant live there yet, we are on earth, but His Kingdom is here as well, which we witness in the Sanctuary, which the Cherubim surround as they stand around God!
  To share this experience with the I and with others who I commune with, who stand strong in the faith and are active in it, serving God with their hearts, words and lives, having a conversatin that is pleasing to God, and who search out these spiritual matters deeply, who apply their hands and minds to serve God and carry out the works He hass assigned, IS A JOY!!!  ANd QUite a reward in itself!  I should thank you bredren, Misgana!
        AmdeBirhan
Logged

For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing assunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.- HEB 4v12
Salpy
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,916


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2010, 10:56:15 PM »

Another tangent about the Sator Palindrome was split off and put here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,20303.new.html#new
Logged

Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,500


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2010, 12:08:49 AM »

Can anyone (maybe brothers Hiywot, HaileAmanuel, AmdeBirhan) tell us how to say the "Jesus Prayer" in Ge'ez? It would also be helpful if you could include the phonetic pronunciation.

Thank you!


Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
Wolde Negus
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo
Posts: 9


« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2010, 06:45:10 AM »

Tenayestellign ena Selamta

Here you find the Abune ze'besemayat, at the bottom of the page:

http://ethiopianorthodox.org/churchmusic/liturgyinenglish/geeze.html

And here, on the right, are also the written words, along with Amarigna and English:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73GMOM7wH9A


Buruk Qadamit Senbet (Blessed be the Sabbath)
Logged
Salpy
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,916


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2010, 12:38:17 PM »

Tenayestellign ena Selamta

Here you find the Abune ze'besemayat, at the bottom of the page:

http://ethiopianorthodox.org/churchmusic/liturgyinenglish/geeze.html

And here, on the right, are also the written words, along with Amarigna and English:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73GMOM7wH9A


Buruk Qadamit Senbet (Blessed be the Sabbath)

Thank you, Wolde Negus.  These are wonderful resources.  If you don't mind, I think I will add them to our Oriental Orthodox Prayer thread.
Logged

Wolde Negus
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo
Posts: 9


« Reply #77 on: February 27, 2010, 01:46:15 PM »

Please do it. Ge'ez language is the closest language to the original tongue spoken by Adam and by the angels, as our Traditions holds.

Egziabeher yestellign
Logged
Salpy
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,916


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #78 on: February 27, 2010, 01:54:38 PM »

Ge'ez language is the closest language to the original tongue spoken by Adam and by the angels, as our Traditions holds.

That's very cool.

By the way, welcome to the forum!  We look forward to your posts.   Smiley
Logged

Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,500


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #79 on: February 27, 2010, 04:09:38 PM »

Yes, thank you Wolde Negus.

Can you give us the Ge'ez translation of these words, and the phonetic pronunciation:

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have mercy on me on a sinner."


Welcome to the forum! Smiley


Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
Wolde Negus
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo
Posts: 9


« Reply #80 on: March 01, 2010, 10:00:46 AM »

The translation in ge'ez is:

Igzio Iyasus Krestos, Wolde Egziabeher, Iserrey lene attawuine


Kibir laNeguse Neghest Lezelalemu Amin
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 10:02:12 AM by Wolde Negus » Logged
Tags: Ethiopian Orthodox Church icons iconography rosary chotki prayer rope Jesus Prayer mequteria Oriental Orthodox prayers Lord's Prayer 
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.133 seconds with 63 queries.