Author Topic: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity  (Read 1159 times)

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Offline Dominika

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Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« on: December 27, 2012, 07:20:03 AM »
I've just found out that there is a difference between practices among various Orthodox jurisdictions in this case. I mean, in Serbia, Romania, Greece, Antiochia etc. during the Nativity Liturgy the hymn "I behold a strange and wonderful mystery" is chanted in the place of "It is Truly meet". However, in Poland and Russia the refrain "Magnify, O my soul, her who is more honorable and more exalted in glory than the heavenly hosts" is the same, but there is chanted the hirmos of the second Nativity Canon "Today the Virgin bears the Master within the cave..."

Another interesting fact is that Ukrainian Greek Catholics use the let's say, "Southern" variant ("I behold...")

Any explanation for this?
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 04:39:51 PM »
These things happen, not a big deal.
Joseph

Offline Dominika

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2012, 06:48:34 AM »
I know they happen ;) But generally there are some differences in the lyrics of the particular hymn (e.g Paschal Canon, troparion of the Cross, troparion of the Meeting in the Temple), but they are 2 different hymns and I'm just interested why and when ;) It seems that Russians have changed something and it has influenced on Polish practice
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2013, 03:49:50 PM »
Update: on the 1st and 2nd Christmas Day this year in my parish there was "Russian version:Today the Virgin bears the Master within the cave. But yesterday at Matins and today at Liturgy there was the proper version, used by vast majority:I behold a strange and wonderful mystery. And on the 3rd day of the feast in the cathedral there was (I think I've heard this first time in Polish Orthodox Church) was also I behold.

No idea what's happening regarding this issue ???
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2013, 03:54:43 PM »
The OCA here although I didn't go there this Xmas would also sing I behold a strange and most glorious wonder or whatever it translates.

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2013, 10:01:26 PM »
I'll get back to you and let you know what we sing on Nativity.

Offline frjohnmorris

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2013, 11:36:30 PM »
I've just found out that there is a difference between practices among various Orthodox jurisdictions in this case. I mean, in Serbia, Romania, Greece, Antiochia etc. during the Nativity Liturgy the hymn "I behold a strange and wonderful mystery" is chanted in the place of "It is Truly meet". However, in Poland and Russia the refrain "Magnify, O my soul, her who is more honorable and more exalted in glory than the heavenly hosts" is the same, but there is chanted the hirmos of the second Nativity Canon "Today the Virgin bears the Master within the cave..."

Another interesting fact is that Ukrainian Greek Catholics use the let's say, "Southern" variant ("I behold...")

Any explanation for this?

The probable explanation is that at the time that the Ukrainian Catholics went into union with Rome, the Ukrainian Church was under the Ecumenical Patriarchate and would have followed the use of Constantinople.

Fr. John W. Morris

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2014, 12:15:20 AM »
I know we sing jelicy instead of holy God. I think we sing magnify at the dostonjo jest

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2014, 12:36:34 AM »
It is magnify, tone 1

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2014, 01:38:22 AM »
Here is the text in English
Magnify, O my soul, / the Most Pure Virgin Theotokos, // more honorable and more glorious than the heavenly hosts.

To love silence is easier, / as a safeguard against fear, / but to compose songs of love in harmony / is more difficult, O Virgin. / Grant us strength, O Mother, // equal to our purpose.
Credit to a fellow Ukrainian Orthodox cantor friend of mine
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 01:39:40 AM by username! »

Offline Dominika

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2014, 03:48:18 PM »
Here is the text in English
Magnify, O my soul, / the Most Pure Virgin Theotokos, // more honorable and more glorious than the heavenly hosts.

To love silence is easier, / as a safeguard against fear, / but to compose songs of love in harmony / is more difficult, O Virgin. / Grant us strength, O Mother, // equal to our purpose.
Credit to a fellow Ukrainian Orthodox cantor friend of mine


Thank you for sharing what was chanted in your parishes :)

The tone is right, but.. It's the third version of the Nativity's hymn insted "It is truly meet". Only the refrain (Magnify O my soul) is exactly the same. However, "I behold" is the most common, and personally, my favourite. Hope it'll be more popular in the Polish Orthodox Church (well, I don't know how it's about other parishes, just know about 3, and two of them some times have used "I behold" this year ???)
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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2014, 10:16:21 PM »
I should have the Ukrainian text by today, if I get it I will post it.

Offline the slave

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2014, 06:15:23 AM »
Is this what you are looking for ?

Замість Достойно , приспів: Величай,
душе моя, у вертепі народженого царя
— Христа.
І ірмос, гл. 1: Таїнство чудне бачу і
преславне: * небо — вертеп, * престол
херувимський — Діву, * ясла —
вмістилище, * в яких возліг невмістимий
Христос Бог. * Його оспівуючи
величаємо.
"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch

Offline LBK

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2014, 06:21:30 AM »
Is this what you are looking for ?

Замість Достойно , приспів: Величай,
душе моя, у вертепі народженого царя
— Христа.
І ірмос, гл. 1: Таїнство чудне бачу і
преславне: * небо — вертеп, * престол
херувимський — Діву, * ясла —
вмістилище, * в яких возліг невмістимий
Христос Бог. * Його оспівуючи
величаємо.

I'm afraid it isn't. The magnification verse is not the same as the one Dominika quoted, and the irmos is the standard one: I behold a strange mystery.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Dominika

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2014, 06:37:14 AM »
Is this what you are looking for ?

Замість Достойно , приспів: Величай,
душе моя, у вертепі народженого царя
— Христа.
І ірмос, гл. 1: Таїнство чудне бачу і
преславне: * небо — вертеп, * престол
херувимський — Діву, * ясла —
вмістилище, * в яких возліг невмістимий
Христос Бог. * Його оспівуючи
величаємо.

I'm afraid it isn't. The magnification verse is not the same as the one Dominika quoted, and the irmos is the standard one: I behold a strange mystery.

Exactly. The irmos is the most common version. And, it's first time the refrain (magnification) differs from the rest, that's exactly the same, about the Theotokos: Magnify, O my soul, the Most Pure Virgin Theotokos,more honorable and more glorious than the heavenly hosts.

It seems this magnification (that I haven't found in any other source, probably even in the whole two Nativity festal canons) is a Ukrainian Greek Catholic feature, as I have the same version with the irmos "I behold" in my UGC prayerbook.
I know - I'm almost heretic! :P but the book (only 10 zl - about 3$) is very useful for me as it contains the Liturgy of st. John Chrysostom and st. Basil the Great and troparions and kontakions and prokimenons and hymns instead "It is truly meet" for the 12 Great Feasts in Ukrainian and Polish ;)
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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2014, 03:53:41 PM »
Is this what you are looking for ?

Замість Достойно , приспів: Величай,
душе моя, у вертепі народженого царя
— Христа.
І ірмос, гл. 1: Таїнство чудне бачу і
преславне: * небо — вертеп, * престол
херувимський — Діву, * ясла —
вмістилище, * в яких возліг невмістимий
Христос Бог. * Його оспівуючи
величаємо.
No, it doesn't say what my English says. Its still nice though, thank you :)

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2014, 03:59:05 PM »
Here is the text in English
Magnify, O my soul, / the Most Pure Virgin Theotokos, // more honorable and more glorious than the heavenly hosts.

To love silence is easier, / as a safeguard against fear, / but to compose songs of love in harmony / is more difficult, O Virgin. / Grant us strength, O Mother, // equal to our purpose.
Credit to a fellow Ukrainian Orthodox cantor friend of mine


Thank you for sharing what was chanted in your parishes :)

The tone is right, but.. It's the third version of the Nativity's hymn insted "It is truly meet". Only the refrain (Magnify O my soul) is exactly the same. However, "I behold" is the most common, and personally, my favourite. Hope it'll be more popular in the Polish Orthodox Church (well, I don't know how it's about other parishes, just know about 3, and two of them some times have used "I behold" this year ???)
Do your traditions in Poland follow Russian or Ukrainian tradition? Where I live the Ukrainian churches follow a lot of the Galician traditions, not entirely, and they sing in prostopinije and galician. Much like in westwen Ukraine so my from Ukraine friends tell me.

Offline Dominika

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2014, 04:31:43 PM »
Do your traditions in Poland follow Russian or Ukrainian tradition? Where I live the Ukrainian churches follow a lot of the Galician traditions, not entirely, and they sing in prostopinije and galician. Much like in westwen Ukraine so my from Ukraine friends tell me.

It varies. Most parishes follow Russian tradition and have preserved some specificity of Orthodoxy of e.g Podlachia. But parishes around Lublin, as I've heard, follow more Ukrainian traditions. The separate issue are Lemkos parishes, as they totally follow their own tradition, that is very close to Ukrainian one.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2014, 04:43:43 PM »
Someone should make a chart of all these Eastern European variations of Orthodoxy.
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Hymn instead of "It is Truly meet" on Nativity
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2014, 04:46:27 PM »
Someone should make a chart of all these Eastern European variations of Orthodoxy.
;)
I absolutely agree
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