Author Topic: Council of Trent?  (Read 1744 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline walter1234

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 928
Council of Trent?
« on: December 25, 2012, 01:02:01 PM »
Why did Catholic Church take way a few of Scriptures from Septugints in the Council of Trent?

Based on what Catholic Church decided which Scriptures are canon, which one is not in the Council?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 01:03:36 PM by walter1234 »

Offline theistgal

  • Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,082
  • don't even go there!
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2012, 02:31:42 PM »
Why did Catholic Church take way a few of Scriptures from Septugints in the Council of Trent?

Based on what Catholic Church decided which Scriptures are canon, which one is not in the Council?

Have you compared a Protestant Bible to a Catholic Bible? Do so, then ask who took away some of the Scriptures.
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline walter1234

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 928
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2012, 02:42:42 PM »
As what I know, Orthodox has a few more Scriptures than Catholic . Why Catholic did not decide to include them all in Council of Trent?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 02:44:11 PM by walter1234 »

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2012, 02:50:08 PM »
Probably because they weren't using the other books Liturgically.

Online Justin Kissel

  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,556
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2012, 02:58:06 PM »
There was no clear canon of books that all the traditional groups used at the time Trent took place. If memory serves there was some debate, but in the end they settled on the canon largely used through their history, which had been accepted by luminaries that loomed large in the west like St. Augustine, and was also accepted by councils like those of Carthage.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2012, 10:19:54 PM »
Deja vu anyone?
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Melodist

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,523
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2012, 10:48:59 PM »
As what I know, Orthodox has a few more Scriptures than Catholic . Why Catholic did not decide to include them all in Council of Trent?

Because up until the 16th century, there was no definitively set canon. The closest thing you find in a council is a vague ratification of what various local churches are using without giving a specific list of books. When the Protestants tried to deny already accepted books and parts of books as being scripture, Rome responded by ratifying a definitive list of books that they used based on the list of books in the latin Vulgate, which was translated and compiled by St Jerome in the 4th century. This is not a real issue between Catholic and Orthodox.
And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God

Offline Father H

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,667
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Nea Roma
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2012, 01:04:35 AM »
Deja vu anyone?

No thanks, I gave deja vu up for advent and have not had the desire to return.  But we have once again encountered a forum where many posters seem to be trying out for HEE HAW, even though it doesn't exist any longer:  "gloom, despair, and agony on me, woawh..."  Disgruntled Orthodox or disgruntled former Orthodox or "wannabe former disgruntled Orthodox" are even less tolerable than disgruntled employees, in my opinion, and I have experience with both.   

Online Justin Kissel

  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 32,556
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 01:15:04 AM »
Disgruntled Orthodox or disgruntled former Orthodox or "wannabe former disgruntled Orthodox"

But none of the posters in this thread are any of those things...

Offline Father H

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,667
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Nea Roma
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 01:46:33 AM »
Disgruntled Orthodox or disgruntled former Orthodox or "wannabe former disgruntled Orthodox"

But none of the posters in this thread are any of those things...

Are you sure about that? 

Online Cyrillic

  • The Laughing Cavalier
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,044
  • Φέρ' ὕδωρ φέρ' οἶνον, ὦ παῖ!
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 06:50:23 AM »
Because the Latin Vulgate didn't include the additional books like III Maccabees.
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

νίκας τοῖς Βασιλεῦσι κατὰ βαρβάρων δωρούμενος

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 07:53:59 AM »
Deja vu anyone?

No thanks, I gave deja vu up for advent and have not had the desire to return.  But we have once again encountered a forum where many posters seem to be trying out for HEE HAW, even though it doesn't exist any longer:  "gloom, despair, and agony on me, woawh..."  Disgruntled Orthodox or disgruntled former Orthodox or "wannabe former disgruntled Orthodox" are even less tolerable than disgruntled employees, in my opinion, and I have experience with both.   

Someone else who knows Hee Haw!  I knew I liked this place! 

"Grandpa!  What's for supper!" ;D

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,813
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 07:55:49 AM »
I don’t want to derail the thread, but is there another thread in which all accepted books was discussed?  I know there is no one book which contains them all, but I vaguely remember people listing all canonized scripture.  I may have been a different forum some time ago.

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2012, 11:42:58 AM »
All topics walter1234 asks questions about have been being discussed here multiple times.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline walter1234

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 928
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2012, 12:53:54 PM »
All topics walter1234 asks questions about have been being discussed here multiple times.

It is very difficult to find them back. I 've typed 'Council of Trent ', 'different Scriptures ' in search engine of this forum. But I still cannot find all these related information.

The search may be more difficult for me who English is not my first language.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 01:04:39 PM by walter1234 »

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2012, 02:56:53 PM »
This thread http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48807.0/topicseen.html discusses exactly the same topic. The Council of Trent could have been brought up there, although it would have had as little relevance.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,376
  • Faith: Melkite Catholic
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2012, 12:05:18 PM »
All topics walter1234 asks questions about have been being discussed here multiple times.
New rule? :)
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,376
  • Faith: Melkite Catholic
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2012, 12:06:44 PM »
As I recall, Trent drew on Florence in many ways. Anyone know whether this is one of those ways?
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline walter1234

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 928
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2012, 12:31:03 PM »
This thread http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48807.0/topicseen.html discusses exactly the same topic. The Council of Trent could have been brought up there, although it would have had as little relevance.

All topics walter1234 asks questions about have been being discussed here multiple times.
New rule? :)
To me,I think starting a new subject here can be more focus and concentrate on that particular issue which I intend to discuss.And it can avoid irrevelent discussion in the old subject.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 12:34:10 PM by walter1234 »

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2012, 03:26:44 PM »
All topics walter1234 asks questions about have been being discussed here multiple times.
New rule? :)

Most of the things discussed here come back every several months. Apart from a few exceptions (like calendar issues) it's OK to create new threads about things that were discussed somewhere in the past.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,365
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2012, 04:03:06 PM »
The Ethiopian Orthodox Bible accepts even more books. It may make for interesting reading, if Walter wants to do that.

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,376
  • Faith: Melkite Catholic
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2012, 05:48:43 PM »
All topics walter1234 asks questions about have been being discussed here multiple times.
New rule? :)

Most of the things discussed here come back every several months. Apart from a few exceptions (like calendar issues) it's OK to create new threads about things that were discussed somewhere in the past.

Sorry, it was a bad joke. (I know there isn't really a rule that walter1234 only asks questions about topics that have been being discussed here multiple times.)
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,560
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Council of Trent?
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2012, 05:50:55 PM »
The Ethiopian Orthodox Bible accepts even more books. It may make for interesting reading, if Walter wants to do that.
Acts of Pilate?  ;)
Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

http://hyperdoxherman.tumblr.com/