Author Topic: The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees  (Read 677 times)

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Offline walter1234

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The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees
« on: December 24, 2012, 03:24:12 PM »
Quote
38: And if I have done well, and as is fitting the story, it is that which I desired: but if slenderly and meanly, it is that which I could attain unto.
39: For as it is hurtful to drink wine or water alone; and as wine mingled with water is pleasant, and delighteth the taste: even so speech finely framed delighteth the ears of them that read the story. And here shall be an end

Is the author of 2 Maccabees try to tell the people that he has add some imagine stories with the history , so not all the things that take down in 2 Maccabees is correct in the ending?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 03:28:42 PM by walter1234 »

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2012, 03:28:04 PM »
I think he is boasting that he wrote it very well. "Speech finely framed" and all that.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 03:28:32 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline pmpn8rGPT

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Re: The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2012, 03:57:55 PM »
It could be a "Big Fish" type scenario where it is BASED on true events but some is intended to be allegory.  Which would certainly explain a lot
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2012, 05:28:59 PM »
Quote
38: And if I have done well, and as is fitting the story, it is that which I desired: but if slenderly and meanly, it is that which I could attain unto.
39: For as it is hurtful to drink wine or water alone; and as wine mingled with water is pleasant, and delighteth the taste: even so speech finely framed delighteth the ears of them that read the story. And here shall be an end

Is the author of 2 Maccabees try to tell the people that he has add some imagine stories with the history , so not all the things that take down in 2 Maccabees is correct in the ending?
He said that he framed the story well, he doesnt say he added in fake parts. He could have "framed" the story by giving background and context from related events and religious ideas, for example. The water and wine part could be adding in real events and real religious ideas that are outside the main ones he focused on.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2012, 06:53:57 PM »
Scripture is inspired by God. We are not, however, under the illusion that it is a direct dictation.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2012, 11:32:24 PM »
Scripture is inspired by God. We are not, however, under the illusion that it is a direct dictation.
I saw a youtube clip by an evangelical group portraying Moses or another of the Old Testament righteous being inspired to write the scriptures, and they showed him talking to people in a normal way and then go into a robotic stupor and stutter words that the people around him wrote down. This conception of prophecy would be like glossolalia but with words that make sense. However, it appears to disagree with the way Church fathers imagined the scriptures being written, which was sane and self-controlled.

Personally, I think that alot of the Bible, despite being inspired, would be written down in a very sane, self-controlled way, like narratives of current events in ancient times.

« Last Edit: December 25, 2012, 11:33:17 PM by rakovsky »

Offline Shiny

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Re: The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 05:05:11 AM »
Scripture is inspired by God. We are not, however, under the illusion that it is a direct dictation.
This is a terrible apologetic IMO and a weak one.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2012, 10:50:50 AM »
Scripture is inspired by God. We are not, however, under the illusion that it is a direct dictation.
This is a terrible apologetic IMO and a weak one.
How would you say it better?
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: The ending and conclusion of 2 Maccabees
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 01:58:02 PM »
Scripture is inspired by God. We are not, however, under the illusion that it is a direct dictation.
The clip I referred to was "Ancient Secrets of the Bible: the Ark of the Covenant"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fwOHw7AgVc
A "dictation" scene is at 6:00 in the clip.'

Interestingly, one of the speakers in the film uses the inside of an Orthodox church as a backdrop, probably without explanation.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 01:59:45 PM by rakovsky »