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JamesR
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« on: December 23, 2012, 09:31:14 PM » |
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This is an interesting question I've been wondering amongst us Orthodox believers. We certainly don't adhere to Sola Scriptura, and unlike the Roman Catholic Church--which makes a distinction between Scripture and Holy Tradition--we see the Bible as being a part of the Holy Tradition. So I got one question, just as we dismiss parts of the writings of the Saints as being wrong sometimes (which are a part of the Holy Tradition), can we flat-out blatantly say that the Bible is wrong in certain aspects? Can we as the Church truly examine a Pauline epistle and say that "No, Paul got that part wrong etc." or something along those lines? If Scripture is equal to everything else in the Holy Tradition, then why can't we do that? Most Orthodox Christians assert that the Bible holds the same authority as the rest of the Holy Tradition, yet, when presented with this question, are somewhat conflicted.
If we can dismiss other parts of the Holy Tradition as being false, why can't we do the same with parts of the Bible? It would seem to imply that as much as we may not want to admit it in front of Protestants, that we do in fact value the Bible more and ascribe more authority to it than we would to other elements of the Holy Tradition. Likewise, how would we interpret the phrase that all Scripture is "breathed by God" or something?
Also, how do we apply Scriptures to ourselves in the Church? Are they universally binding or are they like the Canons where they only apply if your spiritual father prescribes them? The reason I ask is because I notice several things in Orthodoxy that seem to contradict the Scriptures--like requiring Bishops to be celebate even though St. Paul said that they could have one wife.
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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Kerdy
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2012, 09:43:47 PM » |
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Which bible are you talking about?
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"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2012, 11:40:17 PM » |
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Scripture and Holy Tradition may be wrong, but not nearly as wrong as those who claim Scripture and Holy Tradition are wrong. Scripture and Holy Tradition, after all, are not in danger of eternal separation from God. People are.
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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yeshuaisiam
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The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2012, 01:59:19 AM » |
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Depends on the tradition you are talking about.
The bible is pretty much correct, in almost all aspects. There are parts with errors for sure. (Luke with the thieves on the cross conflicting with the thieves in the other books).
The issue with holy tradition is if the holy tradition directly conflicts with holy tradition itself (written in the scriptures), and new traditions are laid upon it. Thus rendering the scriptures as "wrong" based on the "new holy tradition".
There is a problem with the words "sola scriptura" as it creates an oxymoron in a sense of what you are asking. If the bible is part of the 'holy tradition' and the bible spells out in text the 'holy traditions of Christians', and Christians say "no, the bible is wrong about this holy tradition", then we have a problem. (I don't want to give specifics because that would hijack).
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OrthoNoob
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« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2012, 02:44:21 AM » |
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It may sound like semantics, but I don't think it is: It seems to me that it's more accurate to say not everything a saint ever wrote is properly part of Holy Tradition than to say that Holy Tradition can be wrong.
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Wyatt
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« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2012, 07:48:05 PM » |
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An individual's interpretation of the Bible can be wrong, but the Bible itself cannot be wrong.
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psalm110
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Orthodox Christian
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2012, 08:55:22 PM » |
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I am abit skeptic about whether the scriptures are inerrant, I have started to think possibly certain verses are errant due to copying/scribal errors i:e, Hosea 11:1 from the Septuagint and Masoretic varies, which verse is right ?. The song Of Moses in Deuteronomy is short in the Masoretic but longer in the Septugaint. Psalm 22 has pierced my feet and my hands using the Septugaint, the masoretic reads like a lion... Etc. Who really killed Goliath was it David or Elhanan???
How can we get the Holy Spirit to guide us to show us the truth ?. Since the prophets and apostles or those close to them wrote the scripture which would of been inerrant, though copying and scribal errors the scriptures have become errant in certain verses.
What is the Orthodox Scholarly/theological understanding of our errant or inerrant Holy Scriptures ?
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« Last Edit: December 24, 2012, 08:57:13 PM by psalm110 »
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LBK
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2012, 09:13:08 PM » |
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Psalm 22 has pierced my feet and my hands using the Septugaint, the masoretic reads like a lion... The discrepancy in this passage alone should expose the gulf between the LXX (which has been steadfastly been used by the Orthodox Church) and the intentions of the Masoretes, who attempted to airbrush out the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was indeed the Messiah. |
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psalm110
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2012, 12:28:21 AM » |
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Psalm 22 has pierced my feet and my hands using the Septugaint, the masoretic reads like a lion... The discrepancy in this passage alone should expose the gulf between the LXX (which has been steadfastly been used by the Orthodox Church) and the intentions of the Masoretes, who attempted to airbrush out the fact that Jesus of Nazareth was indeed the Messiah. Definitely agree with you and the Church on this verse, though the masoretic text is clear on other messianic prophecys I:e. Hosea 11:1 ?. |
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tweety234
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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 09:54:34 PM » |
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An individual's interpretation of the Bible can be wrong, but the Bible itself cannot be wrong.
Agreed. Perhaps the interpretations that we have been taught could be wrong. But the Bible itself is not wrong. However, being a word about the word of God, as opposed to "word dictated by God". It could have some flaws. But in the basic philosophy, It is correct. |
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« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 09:56:17 PM by tweety234 »
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“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 09:57:44 PM » |
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Which bible are you talking about?
End of discussion, IMO.  |
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