Author Topic: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?  (Read 1258 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline spiltteeth

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 93
Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« on: December 23, 2012, 05:02:03 PM »
Try as I might, I can't seem to find any consistent answers to this. So, tomorrow, Christmas eve, am I not to eat anything at all until evening? What about drink? Coffee ?

Would really appreciate an answer, thanks.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2012, 05:25:33 PM »
Never heard of any special fast for Christmas Eve. It sort of depends on when your liturgies are. Ours are Christmas Eve Day morning with Royal Hours and Liturgy and Christmas Day morning with Matins and Liturgy. So, I keep the eucharistic fast from midnight until after Communion both days. Eating and drinking during the day is fine, you just follow the Advent abstinence until after Liturgy Christmas Day.

If I had liturgy in the evening Christmas Eve, I would fast from food and drink six hours prior to receiving Communion, and I would take a little nap before church.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline michigander

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2012, 05:47:40 PM »
Tomorrow is a Lenten fast. That is, no meat, no dairy or eggs, no fish, and no wine or olive oil. Other than that, you can eat and drink as much as normal. If you are taking Communion at the Liturgy tomorrow, you shouldn't eat or drink anything for six hours before the Liturgy begins.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,244
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2012, 05:51:47 PM »
We have a tradtion of not-eating anything untill supper. Water is OK.

Offline Benjamin the Red

  • Recovering Calvinist
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,601
  • Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2012, 10:32:29 PM »
I'm noticing that the Greek/Antiochian practice seems different from the Slavic practice on Christmas Eve. I must confess, even though my little description says I'm affiliated with ACROD, I'm very new to the jurisdiction and still primarily follow the traditions and attend services with the OCA. I don't know what ACROD traditions are on the matter.

That said, in the Slavic practice that I'm aware of (and Michał seems to confirm this) we do not eat or drink anything tomorrow, save the Holy Supper that we practice after the Vesperal Liturgy of Christmas Eve. This includes any form of drink, even water. This is mostly because we engage in the typical Eucharistic fast from midnight (or sometimes a dispensation is given to fast only six to eight hours prior to the beginning of the Liturgy) until after the Liturgy.

If you are not communing, I assume you could have a small meal. Though, to strictly follow the fasting custom, one would refrain from eating until the evening (after 3pm, the Ninth Hour). I will be communing tomorrow and so I will not eat or drink until the Holy Supper, but if I were not, I probably would refrain from food and drink only water until the Holy Supper. That's just the piety as I have learned it, and as this thread demonstrates, traditions differ.
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy

Offline Quinault

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,518
  • What about frogs? I like frogs!
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2012, 10:50:45 PM »
On my Antiochian fasting schedule tomorrow is a strict fast day. On a strict fast day you eat nothing for that liturgical day. So depending upon how you see a liturgical day, it would be sundown Sun thru sundown Mon (or after services Monday night if communing), or just all day Monday.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 10:52:13 PM by Quinault »

Offline Quinault

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,518
  • What about frogs? I like frogs!
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2012, 10:55:20 PM »
It really is best to pull up the fasting calender for your parish/jurisdiction rather than just do whatever you find on the internet ;)

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,308
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2012, 09:51:05 AM »
We have a tradtion of not-eating anything untill supper. Water is OK.

My grandfather had the same tradition, although Baba did not! Go figure, they came from the same village.

Offline michigander

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 07:39:56 PM »
On my Antiochian fasting schedule tomorrow is a strict fast day. On a strict fast day you eat nothing for that liturgical day. So depending upon how you see a liturgical day, it would be sundown Sun thru sundown Mon (or after services Monday night if communing), or just all day Monday.
Every weekday in Lent is a strict fast. Do you eat nothing all week?

"Strict fast" usually means the same thing as "Lenten fast," which is no meat, dairy, fish, wine or oil. This practice of eating nothing all day on Christmas Eve looks like a local tradition.

Offline 88Devin12

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,144
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2012, 07:44:42 PM »
Actually I think that eating nothing on Christmas Eve is due to the assumption that you will be receiving communion that night since we can't eat or drink anything prior to communion.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 07:45:20 PM by 88Devin12 »

Offline OrthoNoob

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,157
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2012, 08:44:11 PM »
"Strict fast" usually means the same thing as "Lenten fast," which is no meat, dairy, fish, wine or oil.

Not in the OCA. Here "strict fast" is something over and above the standard Wednesday/Friday fast you describe above. We only do it a few days a year, such as the Beheading of St. John the Baptist, and often wine and oil are allowed on those days, but you only take one meal, ideally, and that after 3 o' clock.
http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com -- My blog

'These words I, Leo, have set down for love and as a safeguard of the Orthodox Faith'

Offline Quinault

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,518
  • What about frogs? I like frogs!
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2012, 12:03:30 AM »
On my Antiochian fasting schedule tomorrow is a strict fast day. On a strict fast day you eat nothing for that liturgical day. So depending upon how you see a liturgical day, it would be sundown Sun thru sundown Mon (or after services Monday night if communing), or just all day Monday.
Every weekday in Lent is a strict fast. Do you eat nothing all week?

"Strict fast" usually means the same thing as "Lenten fast," which is no meat, dairy, fish, wine or oil. This practice of eating nothing all day on Christmas Eve looks like a local tradition.

Maybe in your parish a strict fast is different? "Strict fast" means eating nothing until the ninth hour or sundown (3pm), and then a single meal which may contain no meat, dairy, eggs, fish, oil, or wine. The regular fasting days of no meat/dairy/wine/oil/fish are just listed as "fasting" days like any other Wed/Fri. The strict fast is reserved for Christmas Eve, and Holy Mon-Thurs. Ideally one would eat their last meal before Pascha Holy Thursday evening. This would be in addition to fasting during the day until the ninth hour. So you would eat "dinner" Holy Mon-Holy Thurs, have a little wine/fruit Saturday evening, then break the fast completely for Pascha. So Holy Mon-Thurs would be listed "strict fast" on the calender, then Holy Fri-Sat is listed "abstain."

There are a number of people that observe the strict fast during Lent as well. They don't eat anything until after the pre-sanctified services during the week.

On our calender is has a little cross on the strict fasting days, the other fasting days are just color coded regular fasting days, then there are days listed as "abstain," and color coded for fasting, for a total fast.

So we have "regular" fasting days, strict fasting days, and abstain days, in addition to the other various combinations of fasting.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 12:20:09 AM by Quinault »

Offline Benjamin the Red

  • Recovering Calvinist
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,601
  • Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 01:17:25 AM »
As OrthoNoob testified, "Strict Fast" is something different, at least in the Slavic custom as it is maintained by the OCA. Our calendars, published by St. Tikhon's Seminary Press, marks fasting days with a red background (holy days have the number in red), but go further to indicate a strict fast by marking those days with a red background in addition to the words "Strict Fast."

Such days include the Beheading of St. John, the Exaltation of the Cross, the Eves of Christmas and Theophany and Holy Saturday...among others.
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy

Offline 88Devin12

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,144
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Antioch
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2012, 02:20:48 AM »
It should also be noted to consult your priest about strict fasts, if one is diabetic, or hypoglycemic (like myself), you shouldn't jeopardize your health and well being for the sake of keeping absolute fast. I could only keep it from noon on due to my hypoglycemia.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,244
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2012, 05:36:14 AM »
As OrthoNoob testified, "Strict Fast" is something different, at least in the Slavic custom as it is maintained by the OCA. Our calendars, published by St. Tikhon's Seminary Press, marks fasting days with a red background (holy days have the number in red), but go further to indicate a strict fast by marking those days with a red background in addition to the words "Strict Fast."

Such days include the Beheading of St. John, the Exaltation of the Cross, the Eves of Christmas and Theophany and Holy Saturday...among others.

Don't you mean Holy Friday instead of Saturday?

Offline Dominika

  • Troublesome Sheep
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,249
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Sth different than my heart belongs to
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2012, 06:50:48 AM »
I think the practice of no food and drink (except water, as Michal has written) until the holy supper is known among all Slavs - it's the same not only in eastern Slavian countires, but also in Serbia (so, I suppose in Bulgaria too). Even Slavian Roman Catholics (at least in Poland) has this practice

As OrthoNoob testified, "Strict Fast" is something different, at least in the Slavic custom as it is maintained by the OCA. Our calendars, published by St. Tikhon's Seminary Press, marks fasting days with a red background (holy days have the number in red), but go further to indicate a strict fast by marking those days with a red background in addition to the words "Strict Fast."

Such days include the Beheading of St. John, the Exaltation of the Cross, the Eves of Christmas and Theophany and Holy Saturday...among others.

Don't you mean Holy Friday instead of Saturday?

I think he means Holy Saturday, because then there is allowe one little meal, and on Holy Friday nothing. However, the ancient tradition is that after the holy supper on Great Thursday evening (which should be held between Vesperal Liturgy and the Matins of Good Friday) we shouldn't eat anything until the Paschal breakfast
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,244
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2012, 09:24:26 AM »
I think he means Holy Saturday, because then there is allowe one little meal, and on Holy Friday nothing. However, the ancient tradition is that after the holy supper on Great Thursday evening (which should be held between Vesperal Liturgy and the Matins of Good Friday) we shouldn't eat anything until the Paschal breakfast

There wouldn't be wine blessing on Saturday, then.

Offline Dominika

  • Troublesome Sheep
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,249
  • Serbian/Polish
    • My youtube channel
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Sth different than my heart belongs to
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2012, 09:37:43 AM »
I think he means Holy Saturday, because then there is allowe one little meal, and on Holy Friday nothing. However, the ancient tradition is that after the holy supper on Great Thursday evening (which should be held between Vesperal Liturgy and the Matins of Good Friday) we shouldn't eat anything until the Paschal breakfast

There wouldn't be wine blessing on Saturday, then.

I don't know how old is this tradition of blessing wine on Holy Saturday, but it's done after the Vesperal Liturgy, which in its content is quite Paschal. If I understand correctly, some wine and olives primary were given in the evening of the Holy Saturday, during the reading of Apostle acts, so actually between two Paschal Liturgies. But it does not solve the problem I've heard the tradition was to eat nothing until Paschal breakfast. Maybe this one is older, or maybe in various Churches the practice was a bit different, but one fact is clear: nothing on Holy Saturday as liturgical day.

But it's a bit off-topic ;)
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

Offline Benjamin the Red

  • Recovering Calvinist
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,601
  • Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.
Re: Christmas Eve fast - NO food tomorrow ? Or drink ?
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2012, 10:47:11 AM »
I think the practice of no food and drink (except water, as Michal has written) until the holy supper is known among all Slavs - it's the same not only in eastern Slavian countires, but also in Serbia (so, I suppose in Bulgaria too). Even Slavian Roman Catholics (at least in Poland) has this practice

As OrthoNoob testified, "Strict Fast" is something different, at least in the Slavic custom as it is maintained by the OCA. Our calendars, published by St. Tikhon's Seminary Press, marks fasting days with a red background (holy days have the number in red), but go further to indicate a strict fast by marking those days with a red background in addition to the words "Strict Fast."

Such days include the Beheading of St. John, the Exaltation of the Cross, the Eves of Christmas and Theophany and Holy Saturday...among others.

Don't you mean Holy Friday instead of Saturday?

I think he means Holy Saturday, because then there is allowe one little meal, and on Holy Friday nothing. However, the ancient tradition is that after the holy supper on Great Thursday evening (which should be held between Vesperal Liturgy and the Matins of Good Friday) we shouldn't eat anything until the Paschal breakfast

Looking back at my STS calendar, it is Holy Friday that is marked as a Strict Fast day, which I knew to be true. I figured Holy Saturday was also marked that way, something like "Strict Fast w/ wine", and it is marked as a wine day, but not a Strict Fast day, which I find strange. The custom I've been taught is that after the Vesperal Liturgy, we break for one small meal in which wine is permitted and then resume the Eucharistic fast immediately thereafter for the Paschal Liturgy. That seems like the definition of a "strict fast" to me.
"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy