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Author Topic: the similiarity and difference between Orthodoxy and catholic  (Read 7704 times) Average Rating: 0
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walter1234
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« on: December 23, 2012, 12:55:19 PM »

I come from Protestant. I know what the difference is between Protestant and Orthodoxy a lot.

And Now, I want to know more about what the similiarity and difference are between the Orthodoxy and Catholic, especially the faith and doctrines. Can someone tell me?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 12:56:49 PM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2012, 01:06:22 PM »

Filioque - whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father and the Son
Papal Infallibility - Catholics say the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, Orthodox deny this.
Papal Supremacy - Does the Pope have Universal Jurisdiction? Catholics say yes, Orthodox say no.

These are the big three. There are some more but they usually have less substance.
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2012, 01:59:18 PM »

Devotions to Saints and Mary-both have it.  However we don't consider her a co-redemptorix
In the States and Canada in Orthodoxy parish councils mostly run the parish.  I recommend you stay out of this for as long as possible because parish councils can be terribly cheeky.
Catholicism is ran more by the priest in the church with everything highly organized and there are parish councils but the priest has the final say.  Not doctrine differences just stuff you'd experience in real life.
There is a lot more lay participation in clerical rules in Catholicism.  IE, no priest present for first communion retreats, etc... people taking communion to the sick.  This doesn't happen in orthodoxy the priest is usually involved or the deacon at most major groups/classes and they take the sacraments to the sick.
accountability;  it is harder to get away with slacking off and not knowing people you go to church with when you go to a small North American Orthodox church versus a Roman Catholic parish that may have 8 Sat/Sun Masses and 4000 families.

We are the oldest Christian community in existence.  Rome even left us and the "columbus found the new world in 1492" answer is 1054 A.D.  They sacked us in Constantinople 1204 A.D. (never forget it). 
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2012, 02:06:00 PM »

They sacked us in Constantinople 1204 A.D. (never forget it). 

"They" sacked "us". *sigh*

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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2012, 03:41:51 PM »

I didn't sack anyone
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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2012, 03:59:24 PM »

I didn't sack anyone


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is a 13th-century Greek, I think.
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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2012, 04:18:21 PM »

Filioque - whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father and the Son

In the context of what is expressed in the Creed.

Quote
Papal Infallibility - Catholics say the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, Orthodox deny this.
Papal Supremacy - Does the Pope have Universal Jurisdiction? Catholics say yes, Orthodox say no.

These are the big three. There are some more but they usually have less substance.

This pretty much sums it up.
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« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2012, 07:54:29 PM »

Here we go...again  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes.
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2012, 08:03:02 PM »

Filioque - whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father and the Son

In the context of what is expressed in the Creed.

Quote
Papal Infallibility - Catholics say the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, Orthodox deny this.
Papal Supremacy - Does the Pope have Universal Jurisdiction? Catholics say yes, Orthodox say no.

These are the big three. There are some more but they usually have less substance.

This pretty much sums it up.

Catholics tend to be more legalistic while Orthodox are more mystical.
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2012, 08:05:32 PM »

Here we go...again  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes.

As long as this doesn’t turn into a Catholic bashing thread, I think it is safe to simply discuss the differences and similarities, but that appears to be difficult for many people.  I have said many times before that if it were not for a small handful of things I could not work around, I would have become Roman Catholic.  The more I learned about Orthodoxy, the more I respected the Roman Catholic Church.  I suppose I am the odd ball.
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2012, 10:02:56 PM »

Filioque - whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father and the Son
Papal Infallibility - Catholics say the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, Orthodox deny this.
Papal Supremacy - Does the Pope have Universal Jurisdiction? Catholics say yes, Orthodox say no.

These are the big three. There are some more but they usually have less substance.
Original sin, Immaculate conception
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« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2012, 10:11:04 PM »

Similarities:

-Both are Liturgical (although the RC Church keeps getting more and more liberal throughout the years, watering down their worship gradually)
-Both argue Apostolic succession
-Both rely on Church Tradition opposed to just the Scriptures
-Same Sacraments/Mysteries pretty much--except a few differences in the Marriage Sacraments and a bit of a difference between Confirmation and Chrismation

Differences:

-The Filioque, RCs believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, but we believe that it only proceeds from the Father.
-Substitutionary Atonement (often an overlooked but major differece), RCs believe that Jesus died to appease His Father's wrath against humanity, EOs believe that He died to defeat death.
-Original Sin, the RCs believe that we inherited Adam's guilt, the EOs believe that we only inherited the consequences of his sin--which was death.
-Ecclessiology, the RCs believe in all this weirdo Papal theology about the Pope being the supreme Bishop and being infallible in certain conditions, whereas the EO believes that all Bishops and Patriarchates are equal and none are individually infallible.
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« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2012, 10:54:03 PM »

Original sin, Immaculate conception

These are only an issue because of the dogmatization of the IC.
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And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2012, 12:07:50 AM »

I guess this would follow under liturgics but I just found out, due to be raised in the Orthodox church and not being aware, that Roman Catholics have not been exposed to the poetic theology encapsulated in our hymnography. I have been sharing our church hymns with a group of very devout Roman Catholics on Facebook. They are in awe of the beauty and inspiration in our hymnography. They wanted to know who had written the hymns but most of these hymns have been written so long ago (first few centuries of Christianity) that either the authors are anonymous or have been lost to the passages of time.

I was so happy to give them part of our shared heritage that had somehow been lost to them. One woman wrote that the hymn of Christ destroying death through is Godhead and raising the dead with Himself was one of the most inspiring quotes she had ever heard.

Anyway, their excitement of reading the hymns gave me, a lackadaisical Orthodox, a new appreciation for the theology and beauty in our hymns that I had taken for granted.
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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2012, 12:21:36 AM »

Original sin, Immaculate conception

These are only an issue because of the dogmatization of the IC.

Well, they are related.  The Orthodox reject the Latin concept of Original Sin.  IC is not necessary if there is no Original Sin.
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« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2012, 12:39:29 AM »

Quote
They wanted to know who had written the hymns but most of these hymns have been written so long ago (first few centuries of Christianity) that either the authors are anonymous or have been lost to the passages of time.

Good to hear from you, Tamara!  Smiley

You'll be pleased to know that the identity of the writers of a good proportion of Orthodox hymnography is indeed known to us. These hymnographers are recorded in the menaia and other liturgical books which contain the texts of feasts and other liturgical services.

If there's any particular hymn you'd like to know who the hymnographer was who wrote it, feel free to PM me.  Smiley
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« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2012, 01:35:38 AM »

Catholic also believes the cross and death of Jesus is to fulifill  the glory and justice of Father and ransom us from Him.It is quite similar to Protestant. The main difference between the atonement of Protestant and Catholic is simply that Catholic believe Father did not shown angry to and  kill Jesus

Catholic believes that there is purgatory while Orthodox does not.
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« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2012, 03:41:05 AM »

Filioque - whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father and the Son

In the context of what is expressed in the Creed.

Quote
Papal Infallibility - Catholics say the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, Orthodox deny this.
Papal Supremacy - Does the Pope have Universal Jurisdiction? Catholics say yes, Orthodox say no.

These are the big three. There are some more but they usually have less substance.

This pretty much sums it up.

Catholics tend to be more legalistic while Orthodox are more mystical.
Besides original sin and satisfaction atonement, what can also show that Catholic Church is more legalistic?
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« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2012, 05:04:40 AM »

Besides original sin and satisfaction atonement, what can also show that Catholic Church is more legalistic?

Just read the Code of Canon Law.
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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2012, 05:48:39 AM »

Besides original sin and satisfaction atonement, what can also show that Catholic Church is more legalistic?
One guess would be the RC marriage annulment process. The RCC teaches that divorce and remarriage is morally wrong, and a mortal sin,  but on the other hand, almost everyone who applies for a Catholic annulment in the USA gets it with the official stamp of the Church. 
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walter1234
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2012, 12:23:14 PM »

Besides original sin and satisfaction atonement, what can also show that Catholic Church is more legalistic?

Just read the Code of Canon Law.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

Wa! Really too many rules and regulations.   Shocked

Our relationship with God should not like this!  Undecided
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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2012, 01:07:56 PM »

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Canon_law

Orthodox Church also has its own canon laws.Is there any difference between the Canon law of Orthodox and Catholic?Why is Orthodoxy  not legalistic even it has its own canon law?
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« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2012, 01:11:02 PM »

Orthodox Church also has some canon laws.Is there any difference between the Canon law of Orthodox and Catholic?

Yes. Different canons.
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« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2012, 01:14:17 PM »

Orthodox Church also has some canon laws.Is there any difference between the Canon law of Orthodox and Catholic?

Yes. Different canons.

Catholic and Orthodox also have Canon law.Why is Catholic legalistic while Orthodoxy is not?
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« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2012, 01:36:30 PM »

Orthodox Church also has some canon laws.Is there any difference between the Canon law of Orthodox and Catholic?

Yes. Different canons.

Catholic and Orthodox also have Canon law.Why is Catholic legalistic while Orthodoxy is not?

Because the Latins in the West - the Romans - were the masters of the law, much more so than the Greeks. Thus, in the Eastern Roman Empire, where Greek was spoken, law school was entirely in Latin up until the 7th century. The 6th century Byzantine Emperor Justinian wrote his big civil code - the Corpus Juris Civilis - not in Greek, which the majority of his subjects spoke, but in Latin, because that was the language of the great jurists, such as for example Ulpian.

Virgil, the great Roman poet, once wrote (Aeneid, VI:847-852):

Others (I can well believe) will hammer out bronze that breathes
with more delicacy than us, draw out living features
from the marble: plead their causes better, trace with instruments
the movement of the skies, and tell the rising of the constellations:
remember, Roman, it is for you to rule the nations with your power,
that will be your skill - to crown peace with law.

Thus you can see how legalism would sooner develop in the Latin west than in the Greek east. Hope this helps.
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« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2012, 02:31:33 PM »

Orthodox Church also has some canon laws.Is there any difference between the Canon law of Orthodox and Catholic?

Yes. Different canons.

Catholic and Orthodox also have Canon law.Why is Catholic legalistic while Orthodoxy is not?

Because the Latins in the West - the Romans - were the masters of the law, much more so than the Greeks. Thus, in the Eastern Roman Empire, where Greek was spoken, law school was entirely in Latin up until the 7th century. The 6th century Byzantine Emperor Justinian wrote his big civil code - the Corpus Juris Civilis - not in Greek, which the majority of his subjects spoke, but in Latin, because that was the language of the great jurists, such as for example Ulpian.

Virgil, the great Roman poet, once wrote (Aeneid, VI:847-852):

Others (I can well believe) will hammer out bronze that breathes
with more delicacy than us, draw out living features
from the marble: plead their causes better, trace with instruments
the movement of the skies, and tell the rising of the constellations:
remember, Roman, it is for you to rule the nations with your power,
that will be your skill - to crown peace with law.

Thus you can see how legalism would sooner develop in the Latin west than in the Greek east. Hope this helps.


So, How about Orthodoxy?

Does Orthodox church have a lot of rules,regulations and laws which a Christian must follow, like Catholic Church?
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« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2012, 03:04:37 PM »

So, How about Orthodoxy?

Does Orthodox church have a lot of rules,regulations and laws which a Christian must follow, like Catholic Church?

Of course there are rules. It's not a 'build your own teddy bear' church. How many rules are 'a lot', though, is another story entirely...
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« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2012, 03:20:31 PM »

Frankly, I never understood the whole "Filioque" thing, and I was raised RC. All I was taught is that there's the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, co-equal and co-exist from the beginning of time. They didn't get into who is generated from who- they just stressed that they were equal. I suppose the Latin Creed just added it to stress that they were equal, to avoid Sabellianism, and they just didn't take it out over the years- and just simply don't want to give the Orthodox the satisfaction.
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« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2012, 03:24:47 PM »

Frankly, I never understood the whole "Filioque" thing, and I was raised RC. All I was taught is that there's the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, co-equal and co-exist from the beginning of time. They didn't get into who is generated from who- they just stressed that they were equal. I suppose the Latin Creed just added it to stress that they were equal, to avoid Sabellianism, and they just didn't take it out over the years- and just simply don't want to give the Orthodox the satisfaction.

[sarcasm] Studying the Filioque is so much fun! Why don't you try it? [/sarcasm]
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« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2012, 03:32:20 PM »

I have studied it- I personally find it "muddy water theology"- a theological issue that people love to debate on, is difficult to comprehend, and has little to actuali importance in the Church, besides having and Eastern and Western theologians squabbling and bickering for centuries. 
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« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2012, 03:34:38 PM »

Orthodox Church also has some canon laws.Is there any difference between the Canon law of Orthodox and Catholic?

Yes. Different canons.

So, How about Orthodoxy?

Does Orthodox church have a lot of rules,regulations and laws which a Christian must follow, like Catholic Church?

Of course there are rules. It's not a 'build your own teddy bear' church. How many rules are 'a lot', though, is another story entirely...

So, what is the difference between the list of rules, regulations and laws in Catholic and Orthodoxy?
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« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2012, 03:48:25 PM »

I'm a recent convert from Catholicism. Everything everyone stated is good. For me, the main difference is the role and necessity of the Pope.
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« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2012, 03:53:29 PM »

Is there any internet source about the canon law of Orthodox Church?

What is the main purpose of setting a list of canon law in Orthodox Church?
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« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2012, 04:20:27 PM »

Is there any internet source about the canon law of Orthodox Church?
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Pedalion
What is the main purpose of setting a list of canon law in Orthodox Church?
What is "setting a list"?
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« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2012, 04:24:15 PM »

What is "setting a list"?


Why does Orthodox Church have to set so many rules, laws and regulations?
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« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2012, 04:32:10 PM »

What is "setting a list"?


Why does Orthodox Church have to set so many rules, laws and regulations?
To prevent anarchy. That's how it's the same Church Christ left two thousand years later, and Protestantism is splintered into thousands of sects in less than half a millenium.
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« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2012, 04:52:58 PM »

I am still a bit confused. Huh

Nowaday, Orthodox and Catholic Church/Christian also has many canon laws to obey and follow . Why Orthodox Church is not legalistic while Catholic is?
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« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2012, 07:46:26 PM »

I am still a bit confused. Huh

Nowaday, Orthodox and Catholic Church/Christian also has many canon laws to obey and follow . Why Orthodox Church is not legalistic while Catholic is?
For the same reason that sins committed by Catholics reflect on our entire Church, whereas sins committed by Eastern Orthodox Christians are just shrugged off as sinful human nature and does not reflect on the Eastern Orthodox Church as a whole.
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« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2012, 08:06:53 PM »

I am still a bit confused. Huh

Nowaday, Orthodox and Catholic Church/Christian also has many canon laws to obey and follow . Why Orthodox Church is not legalistic while Catholic is?
For the same reason that sins committed by Catholics reflect on our entire Church, whereas sins committed by Eastern Orthodox Christians are just shrugged off as sinful human nature and does not reflect on the Eastern Orthodox Church as a whole.
So you admit the adoption of legalism by the Vatican is sinful?
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« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2012, 09:20:00 PM »

They sacked us in Constantinople 1204 A.D. (never forget it). 

"They" sacked "us". *sigh*



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« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2012, 09:20:51 PM »

I didn't sack anyone

But if you did, you'd sack Moscow. Slim are the pickings in Constantinople.
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« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2012, 09:22:11 PM »

Filioque - whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father or from the Father and the Son

In the context of what is expressed in the Creed.

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Papal Infallibility - Catholics say the Pope is infallible when speaking ex cathedra, Orthodox deny this.
Papal Supremacy - Does the Pope have Universal Jurisdiction? Catholics say yes, Orthodox say no.

These are the big three. There are some more but they usually have less substance.

This pretty much sums it up.

Catholics tend to be more legalistic while Orthodox are more mystical.

Often we are mystical about our legalism, but on off days we can be legalistic about our mysticism.
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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
JamesR
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« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2012, 09:26:56 PM »

Original sin, Immaculate conception

These are only an issue because of the dogmatization of the IC.

No, it's an issue because of the concept of inherited guilt--an issue which I would say is highly overlooked and not just a little mere difference that can be overlooked via different jurisdictions.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.
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« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2012, 09:29:12 PM »

Orthodox Church also has some canon laws.Is there any difference between the Canon law of Orthodox and Catholic?

Yes. Different canons.

So, How about Orthodoxy?

Does Orthodox church have a lot of rules,regulations and laws which a Christian must follow, like Catholic Church?

Of course there are rules. It's not a 'build your own teddy bear' church. How many rules are 'a lot', though, is another story entirely...

So, what is the difference between the list of rules, regulations and laws in Catholic and Orthodoxy?


I dont know about differnece, but from an Orthodox perspective, canons are not laws. The Greek word for canon means measuring stick or measurement or something. It's not a law, but something to strive for, knowing that even meeting all the canons may not be possible and even if it were, we're still imperfect and sinners.

There are also different kinds of canons. There are dogmatic canons that define our faith. And there are disciplinary canons which help guide the life of the Church. Some of these are more weighty than others. For example, there are canons which govern the movement of bishops--this is for good order. There's also a canon against allowing bears in church. This is so people are not killed and eaten during Liturgy.
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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Shanghaiski
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« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2012, 09:30:53 PM »

Is there any internet source about the canon law of Orthodox Church?

What is the main purpose of setting a list of canon law in Orthodox Church?

Do you really want to study Orthodoxy by asking a million questions at once? Or do you want, instead, to know who Christ really is?
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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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