Author Topic: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????  (Read 3145 times)

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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2013, 05:19:55 PM »
Yeshua HaDerekh, the Orthodox teaching on who Zachariah was (both High Priest and father of St John the Baptist) is crystal-clear.

It does not say anywhere in scripture that he was THE HIGH PRIEST. He served in the course of Abiyah...with other priests in the Temple...THAT is crystal clear in Scripture.  That "teaching" is tradition, not Tradition...not salvatical.


Nonsense. Orthodox hymns and icons express what the whole Church believes and espouses. It draws from Scripture, Apostolic tradition, and other sources such as the writings of the Fathers. And the hymns of the Church, both in my earlier post, and in Romaios' post, clearly proclaim Zachariah to be both High Priest, and the father of St John the Baptist.



No sense arguing with heretics.
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Offline Yeshua HaDerekh

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Re: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2013, 05:24:29 PM »
Yeshua HaDerekh, the Orthodox teaching on who Zachariah was (both High Priest and father of St John the Baptist) is crystal-clear.

It does not say anywhere in scripture that he was THE HIGH PRIEST. He served in the course of Abiyah...with other priests in the Temple...THAT is crystal clear in Scripture.  That "teaching" is tradition, not Tradition...not salvatical.


Nonsense. Orthodox hymns and icons express what the whole Church believes and espouses. It draws from Scripture, Apostolic tradition, and other sources such as the writings of the Fathers. And the hymns of the Church, both in my earlier post, and in Romaios' post, clearly proclaim Zachariah to be both High Priest, and the father of St John the Baptist.



No sense arguing with heretics.

The truth is NEVER heresy...the truth is only heresy to heretics.
If they hear not Moshe and the Nevi'im, neither will they be persuaded by one that rose from the dead.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2013, 05:40:10 PM »
Yeshua HaDerekh, the Orthodox teaching on who Zachariah was (both High Priest and father of St John the Baptist) is crystal-clear.

It does not say anywhere in scripture that he was THE HIGH PRIEST. He served in the course of Abiyah...with other priests in the Temple...THAT is crystal clear in Scripture.  That "teaching" is tradition, not Tradition...not salvatical.


Nonsense. Orthodox hymns and icons express what the whole Church believes and espouses. It draws from Scripture, Apostolic tradition, and other sources such as the writings of the Fathers. And the hymns of the Church, both in my earlier post, and in Romaios' post, clearly proclaim Zachariah to be both High Priest, and the father of St John the Baptist.



No sense arguing with heretics.

The truth is NEVER heresy...the truth is only heresy to heretics.

Says the one who makes his own truth, rather than believing the real truth which is only in the Orthodox Church.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Yeshua HaDerekh

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Re: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2013, 05:47:07 PM »
Yeshua HaDerekh, the Orthodox teaching on who Zachariah was (both High Priest and father of St John the Baptist) is crystal-clear.

It does not say anywhere in scripture that he was THE HIGH PRIEST. He served in the course of Abiyah...with other priests in the Temple...THAT is crystal clear in Scripture.  That "teaching" is tradition, not Tradition...not salvatical.


Nonsense. Orthodox hymns and icons express what the whole Church believes and espouses. It draws from Scripture, Apostolic tradition, and other sources such as the writings of the Fathers. And the hymns of the Church, both in my earlier post, and in Romaios' post, clearly proclaim Zachariah to be both High Priest, and the father of St John the Baptist.



No sense arguing with heretics.

The truth is NEVER heresy...the truth is only heresy to heretics.

Says the one who makes his own truth, rather than believing the real truth which is only in the Orthodox Church.

I didn't make ANY of this up...all truth is "real" truth.  Church fathers are sometimes wrong. 
If they hear not Moshe and the Nevi'im, neither will they be persuaded by one that rose from the dead.

Offline biro

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Re: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2013, 05:49:48 PM »
Yeshua HaDerekh, the Orthodox teaching on who Zachariah was (both High Priest and father of St John the Baptist) is crystal-clear.

It does not say anywhere in scripture that he was THE HIGH PRIEST. He served in the course of Abiyah...with other priests in the Temple...THAT is crystal clear in Scripture.  That "teaching" is tradition, not Tradition...not salvatical.


Nonsense. Orthodox hymns and icons express what the whole Church believes and espouses. It draws from Scripture, Apostolic tradition, and other sources such as the writings of the Fathers. And the hymns of the Church, both in my earlier post, and in Romaios' post, clearly proclaim Zachariah to be both High Priest, and the father of St John the Baptist.



No sense arguing with heretics.

The truth is NEVER heresy...the truth is only heresy to heretics.

Says the one who makes his own truth, rather than believing the real truth which is only in the Orthodox Church.

I didn't make ANY of this up...all truth is "real" truth.  Church fathers are sometimes wrong. 

Good luck with that.
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Offline Yeshua HaDerekh

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Re: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2013, 06:03:12 PM »
Yeshua HaDerekh, the Orthodox teaching on who Zachariah was (both High Priest and father of St John the Baptist) is crystal-clear.

It does not say anywhere in scripture that he was THE HIGH PRIEST. He served in the course of Abiyah...with other priests in the Temple...THAT is crystal clear in Scripture.  That "teaching" is tradition, not Tradition...not salvatical.


Nonsense. Orthodox hymns and icons express what the whole Church believes and espouses. It draws from Scripture, Apostolic tradition, and other sources such as the writings of the Fathers. And the hymns of the Church, both in my earlier post, and in Romaios' post, clearly proclaim Zachariah to be both High Priest, and the father of St John the Baptist.



No sense arguing with heretics.

The truth is NEVER heresy...the truth is only heresy to heretics.

Says the one who makes his own truth, rather than believing the real truth which is only in the Orthodox Church.

I didn't make ANY of this up...all truth is "real" truth.  Church fathers are sometimes wrong. 

Good luck with that.

Why...church fathers are not infallible...
If they hear not Moshe and the Nevi'im, neither will they be persuaded by one that rose from the dead.

Offline Yeshua HaDerekh

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Re: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2013, 06:07:19 PM »
Yeshua HaDerekh, the Orthodox teaching on who Zachariah was (both High Priest and father of St John the Baptist) is crystal-clear.

It does not say anywhere in scripture that he was THE HIGH PRIEST. He served in the course of Abiyah...with other priests in the Temple...THAT is crystal clear in Scripture.  That "teaching" is tradition, not Tradition...not salvatical.


Nonsense. Orthodox hymns and icons express what the whole Church believes and espouses. It draws from Scripture, Apostolic tradition, and other sources such as the writings of the Fathers. And the hymns of the Church, both in my earlier post, and in Romaios' post, clearly proclaim Zachariah to be both High Priest, and the father of St John the Baptist.



No sense arguing with heretics.

The truth is NEVER heresy...the truth is only heresy to heretics.

Says the one who makes his own truth, rather than believing the real truth which is only in the Orthodox Church.

So you would rather believe that The Scriptures are fallible but the church fathers are not?
If they hear not Moshe and the Nevi'im, neither will they be persuaded by one that rose from the dead.

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2013, 06:30:13 PM »
Everybody knows that the Dec 25 celebration of Christ's birth was handed down to us from the Apostles.  The Theotokos relayed this information to St. Luke while she posed for the fist Icon.  ::)

I hope you were joking. #1 jews at that time did NOT celebrate dates of birth but remembered dates of death. #2 the Apostles did no such thing and #3 yeshua's real date of birth can easily be calculated if you understand certain things regarding John the Baptist's birth and his father's service in the temple.

Yes it was a joke hence the roll eyes.
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Offline Father H

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Re: Christmas was Christ really born on the 25th of December????
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2013, 07:12:58 PM »
 Hi all i have recently come to the understanding that December 25th is not the day that Christ was born, or this is what i was led to believe. One of my friends that was once catholic, then baptized Orthodox, and now recently joined and evangelical church, went on a rant last year on how she learned that Christmas is a pagan holiday and if we continue to celebrate it that we are in turn giving our worship to something other than Christ. I do understand that we do not know the exact date of Christ's birth we can only speculate as to when it happened, i also know that it could have been at another time, and this date was set as a day to celebrate Christ's birth cause we do not know when he was born. .  I want to know what the Church's point of view is on this and what do you think about it. . . If it is so pagan is it wrong to celebrate his birth on this given day?  Thanks all!!!!


St. John Chrysostom relates that in his day, it was a recent switch to Dec. 25, as Antioch had previously celebrated Nativity with Theophany on the same day.  Yet, because the imperial archives in Rome (from pagan imperial historian hands prior, yet with consensus of the Christians) showed that Christ's birth was Dec. 25, that the rest of the Church followed.    

Yes, once again Rome was involved and others blindly followed...

What is your problem?  It was not "custom" but a matter of historical record, both of church record and even of pagan record.  While the pagan record is not extant, St. John's reference is a historical reference.