OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 22, 2014, 10:11:53 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Baptism  (Read 412 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
jayjay
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 176



« on: December 20, 2012, 10:34:50 AM »

Hi. I am on the long road to conversion, but a question i have regarding baptism. If a child is baptised, or even an adult, then grows up, has no interest at all in his/her faith, lives a life of debauchery, then dies. How can that person expect to enter heaven? because they were baptised as a child or because by that baptism they become a part of the body of Christ? There must be more to it!! I'm no theologian or expert, but, if I recall correctly (apolgies if i misquote) there are two roads to follow, the broad road, and the narrow road; I can't get my head around it that you can go the broad road, die, then just because you were baptised, either as a child or even as an adult, that this gives you a pass to heaven.

I have no doubt now that baptism is more than a symbolic act (from my former protestant days), and that it is a part of the 'new birth', but I struggle to get my head around this.

I hope I have expressed myself in an understandable way.

Thanks.
Logged
katherineofdixie
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 3,240



« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 10:38:27 AM »

God will save whom He will save.

I'm curious, where did you get the idea that baptism was a free pass into Heaven? (not being snarky, just curious about where you got it, so I can respond more fully to your concerns.)
Logged

"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
Gentleman
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian (Orthodox)
Jurisdiction: Moskow
Posts: 115


Manners maketh man


« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 11:48:53 AM »

Unfortunately the baptism alone doesn't guarantee for an adult person that they will certainly go to Heaven. In case if a baptized child dies, he is surely supposed to go to Heaven because he committed no sin.
But a more grown-up person, either they were baptized as a child or later, must co-work with God's grace that they received in baptism and chrismation for their own salvation. To give one example, in the name of Christ they must struggle against sinful desires and perform good deeds commanded by God. That makes them fit for salvation that they received in the baptism.
May God help you to understand what is essential for your salvation.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 11:50:47 AM by Gentleman » Logged

I pray Thee, O Merciful Lord, for all the peoples of the earth, that they may come to know Thee by Thy Holy Spirit.

www.journeytoorthodoxy.com/
soderquj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOAA, Metropolis of Denver
Posts: 233



WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 01:51:33 PM »

Baptism demands a personal response on the part of the baptized. They must accept what God did for him or her in baptism. Baptism is not a divine pass that will get us into heaven automatically. The baptized needs to make a personal decision regarding the Christian faith which he has passively inherited from his Christian environment. Any relationship has to be developed by two parties. The baptized has not yet developed a relationship with God. But one party in the relationship has already taken the initiative: God loves us from the first moment of our conception. He takes the initiative to establish the relationship we must respond.
Logged

O God, cleanse me a sinner and have mercy on me.
Melodist
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: The Faith That Established The Universe
Jurisdiction: AOANA
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 04:13:15 PM »

If a child is baptised, or even an adult, then grows up, has no interest at all in his/her faith, lives a life of debauchery, then dies. How can that person expect to enter heaven? because they were baptised as a child or because by that baptism they become a part of the body of Christ?

We don't teach this.

Baptism does make you a son of God by adoption through Jesus Christ, but children can (and do) become prodigal, and when they do, they must return to their Father in order to have the benefits of adoption into the family.
Logged

And FWIW, these are our Fathers too, you know.

Made Perfect in Weakness - Latest Post: The Son of God
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,969


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2012, 05:03:22 PM »

Hi. I am on the long road to conversion, but a question i have regarding baptism. If a child is baptised, or even an adult, then grows up, has no interest at all in his/her faith, lives a life of debauchery, then dies. How can that person expect to enter heaven? because they were baptised as a child or because by that baptism they become a part of the body of Christ? There must be more to it!! I'm no theologian or expert, but, if I recall correctly (apolgies if i misquote) there are two roads to follow, the broad road, and the narrow road; I can't get my head around it that you can go the broad road, die, then just because you were baptised, either as a child or even as an adult, that this gives you a pass to heaven.

I have no doubt now that baptism is more than a symbolic act (from my former protestant days), and that it is a part of the 'new birth', but I struggle to get my head around this.

I hope I have expressed myself in an understandable way.

Thanks.

Who ever said that just because someone was baptized they're automatically saved?

On the other hand, if someone were to be baptized as a child, live a life of debauchery and die, would you be offended at him being taken to heaven?
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
jayjay
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 176



« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2012, 10:15:43 AM »

Hi. the reason i came up with this question was, being raised protestant, and once studying at a well known seminary in the US, I had big issues with someone 'asking Jesus into their heart' (being saved),then before long going off the rails, but because they had 'asked Jesus into their heart' they were saved once and for all eternity. My problem with it was that there was no accountability for that person.

I came to the question because I heard (with my own ears, not hear say) a man who lived a wild, criminal life, was killed, and at his funeral it was said that because he was baptised he was now in Gods care.

I am somewhat ignorant of Orthodox teachings, and was curious as to what the teachings on this are.

I appreciate the responses to this, and hope I have not confused or offended with my comments.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,969


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2012, 03:00:47 PM »

To the Orthodox, any doctrine of eternal security in this life, that one can do anything and still be saved by virtue of a declaration or even a sacrament, is anathema--somewhat literally, too.

We believe in synergy, in the cooperation of men with God. God respects human free will. Deeds cannot be separated from the disposition of the heart, for they are a manifestation thereof. This is completely Biblical, following the word of Christ.

That said, God alone is the knower of hearts. Those who do evil need not become so, if they repent. Repentance is the center of Christian life.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Benjamin the Red
Recovering Calvinist
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America, Diocese of Dallas and the South ||| American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 1,601


Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me.


« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2012, 10:22:51 PM »

So many good answers.

Baptism saves us, but so does Communion, fasting, tithing, prayer, almsgiving, Confession, etc. Orthodoxy is an all-encompassing Faith, in that we must live our whole lives to the glory of God in Christ, constantly struggling to be free from sin and unite ourselves to Christ. This is an on-going process--eternally on-going--called "theosis" or "deification". There are no "Get-Out-Of-Hell-Free Cards."
Logged

"Hades is not a place, no, but a state of the soul. It begins here on earth. Just so, paradise begins in the soul of a man here in the earthly life. Here we already have contact with the divine..." -St. John, Wonderworker of Shanghai and San Francisco, Homily On the Sunday of Orthodoxy
jayjay
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 176



« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2012, 11:45:24 PM »

Thankyou for your responses. You have really helped me answer my questions. Thanks again.
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.082 seconds with 37 queries.