Author Topic: the married Chrisitans cannot be the priest?  (Read 6068 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: the married Chrisitans cannot be the priest?
« Reply #90 on: June 24, 2013, 12:29:03 PM »
Why can't the married Christians be the priest in Catholic Church?

Because the Western Church has always had a perverted view of marriage.
Does it follow then that not allowing married bishops in the Eastern Church stems from a 'perverted view of marriage'?

Good question. (It's not that disagree with the conclusion that married men should be admitted to the priesthood; but I hate when people use an anti-western argument to get to that conclusion.)
The Vatican's treatment of those it has snatched from Orthodoxy in the East answers that question, Ea semper and all that.
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Offline Surnaturel

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Re: the married Chrisitans cannot be the priest?
« Reply #91 on: June 25, 2013, 11:50:01 AM »
Why can't the married Christians be the priest in Catholic Church?

Because the Western Church has always had a perverted view of marriage.
Does it follow then that not allowing married bishops in the Eastern Church stems from a 'perverted view of marriage'?

Good question. (It's not that disagree with the conclusion that married men should be admitted to the priesthood; but I hate when people use an anti-western argument to get to that conclusion.)
I don't disagree that there is a place for married men in the priesthood, perhaps at the diocesan level. However, there is an intrinsic good in celibacy and devoting oneself to serving God and the parish without the added responsibilities of married life. With that being said, a married priest is just as capable and orthodox, and will prob take root in the Latin rite in some capacity in the next hundred years or so (my guess).
There is an (actually, several) intrinsic good in marriage.  A reason why it, and not celibacy, is a sacrament.
Yet celibacy is a requirement to be a bishop so surely there intrinsic goods in it as well that make one more suitable to pastor the Church as a bishop.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: the married Chrisitans cannot be the priest?
« Reply #92 on: June 25, 2013, 01:47:55 PM »
Yet celibacy is a requirement to be a bishop so surely there intrinsic goods in it as well that make one more suitable to pastor the Church as a bishop.

While I'll defer to ialmisry wrt what he meant, I think it's important to make a distinction.  AFAIK, the requirement is not for a bishop to be "celibate", but a "monastic".  Obviously, celibate chastity is a part of the monastic life, but it's not because of that alone that we choose bishops from among the monks.  Monks lead lives of prayer, and we want people grounded in a life of prayer to hold such positions in the Church (e.g., there are canons requiring a candidate for ordination to have committed the Psalter to memory...that's not because rote memorisation of Scripture is a requirement, but rather because it means they are faithful to frequent and daily prayer).  Monks live in community, they know how to be obedient and also, if they've held office in a monastery, how to govern souls in obedience to them, they know how to manage the goods and properties of the community, etc., etc.  Inasmuch as a monastery is a microcosm of the Church, monastic experience is a good thing for bishops to have.  It's not just about avoiding "defilement" by women. 

When "celibacy" is severed from "monasticism", as the RC's have done, there are bound to be problems.   
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: the married Chrisitans cannot be the priest?
« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2013, 01:50:20 PM »
Why can't the married Christians be the priest in Catholic Church?

Because the Western Church has always had a perverted view of marriage.
Does it follow then that not allowing married bishops in the Eastern Church stems from a 'perverted view of marriage'?

Good question. (It's not that disagree with the conclusion that married men should be admitted to the priesthood; but I hate when people use an anti-western argument to get to that conclusion.)
I don't disagree that there is a place for married men in the priesthood, perhaps at the diocesan level. However, there is an intrinsic good in celibacy and devoting oneself to serving God and the parish without the added responsibilities of married life. With that being said, a married priest is just as capable and orthodox, and will prob take root in the Latin rite in some capacity in the next hundred years or so (my guess).
There is an (actually, several) intrinsic good in marriage.  A reason why it, and not celibacy, is a sacrament.
Yet celibacy is a requirement to be a bishop so surely there intrinsic goods in it as well that make one more suitable to pastor the Church as a bishop.
If it were, Christ wouldn't have called married men as His Apostles-including "the Prince of the Apostles-nor would Scripture lay down in St. Paul's words that the bishop should be the husband of one wife.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: the married Chrisitans cannot be the priest?
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2013, 03:36:50 PM »
Yet celibacy is a requirement to be a bishop so surely there intrinsic goods in it as well that make one more suitable to pastor the Church as a bishop.

While I'll defer to ialmisry wrt what he meant, I think it's important to make a distinction.  AFAIK, the requirement is not for a bishop to be "celibate", but a "monastic".  Obviously, celibate chastity is a part of the monastic life, but it's not because of that alone that we choose bishops from among the monks.  Monks lead lives of prayer, and we want people grounded in a life of prayer to hold such positions in the Church (e.g., there are canons requiring a candidate for ordination to have committed the Psalter to memory...that's not because rote memorisation of Scripture is a requirement, but rather because it means they are faithful to frequent and daily prayer).  Monks live in community, they know how to be obedient and also, if they've held office in a monastery, how to govern souls in obedience to them, they know how to manage the goods and properties of the community, etc., etc.  Inasmuch as a monastery is a microcosm of the Church, monastic experience is a good thing for bishops to have.  It's not just about avoiding "defilement" by women. 

When "celibacy" is severed from "monasticism", as the RC's have done, there are bound to be problems.   

Actually, the only Ecumenical canons that we have set the standard at celibacy. Trullo (a) told married bishops to separate themselves from their wives if they wanted to continue being bishops and (b) told future bishops to do so before ordination. Theoretically, we have married bishops even today as in the case of priests whose wives had passed on and they were advanced to the episcopacy; my locum tenens, Archbishop Nikon of Boston is a case in point. I am saying this because I think our approach to Holy Matrimony is not "till death do us part" but for all eternity. In any case, it is also true that the practice in Eastern Orthodoxy has been to conflate celibacy and monasticism in two ways: first, select from amongst the monastics and you will likely have a person who is also celibate, and secondly, if the person is celibate but not a monastic, have him take at least the first vows--please note that no bishop is required to live in a monastery.

Offline WPM

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Re: the married Chrisitans cannot be the priest?
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2013, 04:08:09 PM »
I would think that the Priest had to be single & celibate.

Offline mike

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Re: the married Chrisitans cannot be the priest?
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2013, 05:33:11 PM »
In any case, it is also true that the practice in Eastern Orthodoxy has been to conflate celibacy and monasticism in two ways: first, select from amongst the monastics and you will likely have a person who is also celibate, and secondly, if the person is celibate but not a monastic, have him take at least the first vows--please note that no bishop is required to live in a monastery.

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