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Author Topic: Ethiopian Monastery Commemorates John of Damascus  (Read 1682 times) Average Rating: 0
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Severian
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« on: December 21, 2012, 08:50:00 PM »

While I said I was taking a break from posting, I will make an exception for this particular topic as I think it will be of interest to all of us. The website of the Nine Saints Ethiopian Orthodox Monastery commemorated John of Damscus as a "defender of the Orthodox faith." Is John of Damascus officially commemorated by the Ethiopian Orthodox, or is this just a local practice of this particular Monastery?

Quote
Saint Yohannes of Damascus
 Monk Priest
Defender of the Orthodox Faith & Sacred Images
 
MONDAY
Tahisas 08 – December 17
 
The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church joins with the entire Christians Church throughout the world on this Eight day of the month of Tahisas, December Seventeenth on the Western calendar, in venerating the memory of one of the Great Fathers of the Church, Saint Abba Yohannes of Damascus.
 
Abba Yohannes Damascene has the double honor of being one of the greatest religious poets of the Eastern Church. He also was a most powerful defender of the Christian Faith before the Islamic infidels and defended the use of Sacred Images (Carvings, Icons, Statues, etc) for and within Christian worship.

Please remember me in your prayers,
Severian
 

Too long quote editted - MK.
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 10:45:04 PM »

I went to a church which had an icon of St. Takla Hymanout (forgive any misspelling). We also venerate St. Caleb Elesbaan, Emperor of Ethiopia on our calendar, though he died in the 6th century.
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 10:46:39 PM »

There are also the 12 or 9 Syrian Fathers in Georgia who may or may not have been anti-Chalcedonians. I can't remember which number it was. The other number were the number of Syrian saints who, incidentally, went to Ethiopia. Those Syrian missionary monks got around.
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2012, 08:26:31 AM »

I went to a church which had an icon of St. Takla Hymanout (forgive any misspelling). We also venerate St. Caleb Elesbaan, Emperor of Ethiopia on our calendar, though he died in the 6th century.
What jurisdiction was this Church?

Anyway, Habte told me that John the Damascene is indeed commemorated in the Ethiopian Synaxarion on December 17. It's kind of ironic because the day beforehand, the Ethiopians also commemorate Sts. Abba Daniel and Abba Matthew (two Anti-Chalcedonian Orthodox Saints) who "cursed the heretical teachings of Chalcedon." Cheesy

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites. I believe he did this in his work "the Fount of Knowledge."
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2012, 08:37:24 AM »

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites. I believe he did this in his work "the Fount of Knowledge."

Every saint made mistakes, right?
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2012, 08:40:38 AM »

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites. I believe he did this in his work "the Fount of Knowledge."

Every saint made mistakes, right?
Of course. I just thought it was odd that our Church commemorated him with that in mind.
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2012, 08:43:32 AM »

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites. I believe he did this in his work "the Fount of Knowledge."

Every saint made mistakes, right?
Of course. I just thought it was odd that our Church commemorated him with that in mind.

It is odd indeed but apparently the Ethiopians concluded that his sanctity made up for the mistake of attributing to them a christology that they didn't hold.
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2012, 08:52:58 AM »

^Perhaps you are right. Anyway, in Coptic Orthodoxy he is not venerated as a Saint, but he is sometimes quoted by our Theologians. Fr. Tadros Yacoub Malaty refers to him as "Fr." John of Damascus (out of respect).

Also, there is a version of the Agpeya which contains a prayer by John of Damascus before Communion (and another Communion prayer by the later Slavic St. Simon Metaphrastes). I like using both these prayers before I Commune. Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2012, 03:07:27 PM »

I went to a church which had an icon of St. Takla Hymanout (forgive any misspelling). We also venerate St. Caleb Elesbaan, Emperor of Ethiopia on our calendar, though he died in the 6th century.
What jurisdiction was this Church?

Anyway, Habte told me that John the Damascene is indeed commemorated in the Ethiopian Synaxarion on December 17. It's kind of ironic because the day beforehand, the Ethiopians also commemorate Sts. Abba Daniel and Abba Matthew (two Anti-Chalcedonian Orthodox Saints) who "cursed the heretical teachings of Chalcedon." Cheesy

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites. I believe he did this in his work "the Fount of Knowledge."

It was OCA, but at the time not exactly stable.
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2012, 04:57:15 PM »

He also was a most powerful defender of the Christian Faith before the Islamic infidels and defended the use of Sacred Images (Carvings, Icons, Statues, etc) for and within Christian worship.

What he wrote about use of statues?

As of the actual topic, for the union of all, let us pray to the Lord!
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2012, 06:20:58 PM »

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites.
Well, monophysite = one nature, so it's not inaccurate. Modern polemics ought not be read back in time.
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2012, 07:28:59 PM »

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites.
Well, monophysite = one nature, so it's not inaccurate. Modern polemics ought not be read back in time.
Yes, but it is obvious from the context that he meant it in a polemical fashion, he also cursed our Holy Fathers Sts. Severus and Dioscorus.
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2012, 07:30:09 PM »

he also cursed our Holy Fathers Sts. Severus and Dioscorus.

What's a little Aristotelian rhetoric between friends?
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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2012, 09:22:27 PM »

Nicholas,
Get back on topic, please.
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2012, 05:40:12 AM »

He also was a most powerful defender of the Christian Faith before the Islamic infidels and defended the use of Sacred Images (Carvings, Icons, Statues, etc) for and within Christian worship.

What he wrote about use of statues?

The theological basis for icons and statuary is the same.
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2012, 07:25:22 AM »

He also was a most powerful defender of the Christian Faith before the Islamic infidels and defended the use of Sacred Images (Carvings, Icons, Statues, etc) for and within Christian worship.

What he wrote about use of statues?

The theological basis for icons and statuary is the same.

So he didn't write anything about statues?
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2012, 07:33:37 AM »

Nope.
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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2012, 10:26:26 PM »

St. Caleb is commemorated on the Byzantine calendar, but St. Tekle Haimanot - a truly great saint - is not.

I went to a church which had an icon of St. Takla Hymanout (forgive any misspelling). We also venerate St. Caleb Elesbaan, Emperor of Ethiopia on our calendar, though he died in the 6th century.
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2012, 11:04:04 PM »

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites.
Well, monophysite = one nature, so it's not inaccurate. Modern polemics ought not be read back in time.
Yes, but it is obvious from the context that he meant it in a polemical fashion, he also cursed our Holy Fathers Sts. Severus and Dioscorus.

I don't know why you'd take the curses personally. I think the both of us have liturgical texts doing the same for those considered heretics. It's all part of our rich ecclesiastical tapestry.
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2012, 11:04:58 PM »

St. Caleb is commemorated on the Byzantine calendar, but St. Tekle Haimanot - a truly great saint - is not.

I went to a church which had an icon of St. Takla Hymanout (forgive any misspelling). We also venerate St. Caleb Elesbaan, Emperor of Ethiopia on our calendar, though he died in the 6th century.

Well, yes. But God is in heaven, and the bishop was far away.
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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2012, 11:14:15 PM »

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites.
Well, monophysite = one nature, so it's not inaccurate. Modern polemics ought not be read back in time.
Yes, but it is obvious from the context that he meant it in a polemical fashion, he also cursed our Holy Fathers Sts. Severus and Dioscorus.

I don't know why you'd take the curses personally. I think the both of us have liturgical texts doing the same for those considered heretics. It's all part of our rich ecclesiastical tapestry.
Yeah, I know. I was just surprised the Ethiopians would canonize a man who cursed two of our greatest Saints.
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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2012, 11:36:32 PM »

The Ethiopians also venerate Pontius Pilate, so I'm somewhat less surprised. Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2012, 12:33:48 PM »

Also, there is a version of the Agpeya which contains a prayer by John of Damascus before Communion (and another Communion prayer by the later Slavic St. Simon Metaphrastes). I like using both these prayers before I Commune. Smiley

which one is the prayer by saint john of damascus?
there are 2 widely used pre communion prayers, and i am wondering if it is the one i use.
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« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2012, 12:59:13 PM »

Also, there is a version of the Agpeya which contains a prayer by John of Damascus before Communion (and another Communion prayer by the later Slavic St. Simon Metaphrastes). I like using both these prayers before I Commune. Smiley

which one is the prayer by saint john of damascus?
there are 2 widely used pre communion prayers, and i am wondering if it is the one i use.
I think it is this one (but I could be wrong):

O Lord my God, I know that I am not worthy nor sufficient that thou shouldest enter under my roof into the habitation of my soul, for it is all deserted and in ruins, and thou hast not a fitting place in me to lay thy head. But as from the heights of thy glory thou didst humble thyself, so now bear me in my humility; as thou didst deign to lie in a manger in a cave, so deign now also to come into the manger of my mute soul and corrupt body. As thou didst not refrain from entering into the house of Simon the leper, or shrink from eating there with sinners, so also vouchsafe to enter the house of my poor soul, all leprous and full of sin. Thou didst not reject the sinful woman who ventured to draw near to touch thee, so also have pity on me, a sinner, approaching to touch thee. And grant that I may partake of thine All-holy Body and Precious Blood for the sanctification, enlightenment and strengthening of my weak soul and body; for the relief from the burden of my many sins; for my preservation against all the snares of the devil; for victory over all my sinful and evil habits; for the mortification of my passions; for obedience to thy Commandments; for growth in thy divine Grace and for the inheritance of thy Kingdom. For it is not with careless heart that I approach thee, O Christ my God, but I come trusting in thine infinite goodness, and fearing lest I may be drawn afar from thee and become the prey of the wolf of souls. Wherefore I pray thee, O Master, who alone art holy, that thou wouldest sanctify my soul and body, my mind and heart and reins, and renew me entirely. Implant in my members the fear of thee, be thou my helper and guide, directing my life in the paths of peace, and make me worthy to stand at thy right hand with thy Saints; through the prayers and intercessions of thine immaculate Mother, of thy Bodiless Servitors, of the immaculate Powers, and of all the Saints who from all ages have been well-pleasing unto thee. Amen.

http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/before.html
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« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2012, 04:21:43 PM »

I was told by a Byzantine Orthodox bishop to go to the Oriental Orthodox for communion if I was ever living in an area without any accessible Byzantine churches, so the bishop might not have minded :-).

St. Caleb is commemorated on the Byzantine calendar, but St. Tekle Haimanot - a truly great saint - is not.

I went to a church which had an icon of St. Takla Hymanout (forgive any misspelling). We also venerate St. Caleb Elesbaan, Emperor of Ethiopia on our calendar, though he died in the 6th century.

Well, yes. But God is in heaven, and the bishop was far away.
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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2012, 05:04:12 PM »

Are these the Ethiopian Tewahedo that smoke marijuana, or the Ethiopian Tewahedo that do not smoke marijuana?  They sound like the sober ones.   Wink
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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2012, 06:30:26 PM »

Also, there is a version of the Agpeya which contains a prayer by John of Damascus before Communion (and another Communion prayer by the later Slavic St. Simon Metaphrastes). I like using both these prayers before I Commune. Smiley

which one is the prayer by saint john of damascus?
there are 2 widely used pre communion prayers, and i am wondering if it is the one i use.
I think it is this one (but I could be wrong):

http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/before.html

this is the one i always pray!  Smiley
i pray a more modern version, as i am allergic to ancient english.
 Wink
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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2012, 06:56:08 PM »

Likewise :-). It's a lovely prayer.

Also, there is a version of the Agpeya which contains a prayer by John of Damascus before Communion (and another Communion prayer by the later Slavic St. Simon Metaphrastes). I like using both these prayers before I Commune. Smiley

which one is the prayer by saint john of damascus?
there are 2 widely used pre communion prayers, and i am wondering if it is the one i use.
I think it is this one (but I could be wrong):

http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/before.html

this is the one i always pray!  Smiley
i pray a more modern version, as i am allergic to ancient english.
 Wink
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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2012, 06:59:48 PM »

errrrrrm....
sorry, from here:
http://www.ocf.org/OrthodoxPage/prayers/before.html

it is the prayer of saint john chrysostom!

the prayer of saint john of damascus is the one underneath it...

A Prayer of St. John of Damascus

O Lord and Master Jesus Christ, our God, who alone hath power to forgive the sins of men, do thou, O Good One who lovest mankind, forgive all the sins that I have committed in knowledge or in ignorance, and make me worthy to receive without condemnation thy divine, glorious, immaculate and life-giving Mysteries; not unto punishment or unto increase of sin; but unto purification, and sanctification and a promise of thy Kingdom and the Life to come; as a protection and a help to overthrow the adversaries, and to blot out my many sins. For thou art a God of Mercy and compassion and love toward mankind, and unto Thee we ascribe glory together with the Father and the Holy Spirit; now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2012, 07:07:42 PM »

^Lol, you're right! Sorry about that, my eyes must be playing tricks on me. Wink
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« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2013, 08:42:08 AM »

What I find a bit odd about the Ethiopians' commemoration of John of Damascus is that he labelled us and our Saints as Monophysites. I believe he did this in his work "the Fount of Knowledge."

What about Pope St Cyril of Alexandria's vehement dislike for St John Chrysostom until the latter part of his life? St Hippolytus of Rome was an antipope who attacked Pope St Pontian of Rome. Saints make mistakes. The Prophet and King St David committed adultery and had the woman's husband killed. And St David, in Acts 13:22, is called a man after God's own heart.
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« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2013, 08:55:30 AM »

i pray a more modern version, as i am allergic to ancient english.

Don't worry. As Fathers taught, The Church is a spiritual hospital. I'm sure proper cure can be found.
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« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2013, 03:50:19 PM »

 Tongue
(to alpo)
 Wink

as for saint cyril of alexandria, i do not believe he 'disliked' anyone. he may have disagreed with saint john on some issues, but he would have prayed for him and cared for him.

all our saints have made mistakes, this encourages us not to despair as we too, sinners, can become holy by imitating them and coming closer to our Lord and Saviour Jesus.
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Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 290



« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2013, 11:35:31 AM »

St. Caleb is commemorated on the Byzantine calendar, but St. Tekle Haimanot - a truly great saint - is not.

I went to a church which had an icon of St. Takla Hymanout (forgive any misspelling). We also venerate St. Caleb Elesbaan, Emperor of Ethiopia on our calendar, though he died in the 6th century.

The Eastern Orthodox Church, and, even the Roman Catholic Church commemorate the great Ethiopian emperor Kaleb, but not the Egyptian Coptic Church. What could be the reason?

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Tags: Oriental Orthodox saints 
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