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Author Topic: Muslim family taking Greek Orthodox school to High Court over hijab ban  (Read 10890 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 21, 2012, 05:50:09 PM »

So many fails on every side...

A GREEK Orthodox school is being taken to the High Court for banning a Muslim pupil from wearing a headscarf.

The nine-year-old girl's parents were so incensed at the decision they have pulled her out of St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy, in Thornton Heath...
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 05:57:29 PM »

You know...I'm not going to go all Allahu Admiral Akbar on the Greeks for restricting Moslem symbolism but this brings up a question...why weren't the Greek girls wearing head coverings???
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 05:58:32 PM »

You know...I'm not going to go all Allahu Admiral Akbar on the Greeks for restricting Moslem symbolism but this brings up a question...why weren't the Greek girls wearing head coverings???

Because school isn't church.
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 06:10:22 PM »

You know...I'm not going to go all Allahu Admiral Akbar on the Greeks for restricting Moslem symbolism but this brings up a question...why weren't the Greek girls wearing head coverings???
I was just thinking the same thing
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 06:17:44 PM »

You know...I'm not going to go all Allahu Admiral Akbar on the Greeks for restricting Moslem symbolism but this brings up a question...why weren't the Greek girls wearing head coverings???
That's a really good point, Vamrat! I did not even think of that. Muslims picked up the head covering practice from the Orthodox, along with domed religious architecture, the greeting "peace be upon you", and perhaps other customs. Even in the Soviet union it was common for working women to put pretty napkins on their hair, and women sometimes still do this in the countryside there.

I actually hope the Muslims win the court case, because otherwise it means Greece is labeling women wearing coverings as discriminatory, when in fact the state policy would discriminatory against religious women by penalizing them.
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 06:42:57 PM »

Repeat...a school is not a church. 
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 06:54:52 PM »

Repeat...a school is not a church. 
Right, sooo......."The school claims to "respect the religious beliefs and practice of all staff, pupils and parents".

What's the problem?

Would they make a little Jewish boy remove his yamika?
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 07:05:47 PM »

Repeat...a school is not a church. 
Right, sooo......."The school claims to "respect the religious beliefs and practice of all staff, pupils and parents".

What's the problem?

Would they make a little Jewish boy remove his yamika?

You asking me (as if that point is relevant)?
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 07:15:16 PM »

Too bad, that's what happens to a Moslem enrolled in an Eastern Orthodox academy.  What rules do they think would be imposed by a Moslem school upon Orthodox Christians?  I wonder if the parents will be screaming "Alla Akbar" when they enter the court room.
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 07:18:26 PM »

Too bad, that's what happens to a Moslem enrolled in an Eastern Orthodox academy.  What rules do they think would be imposed by a Moslem school upon Orthodox Christians?  I wonder if the parents will be screaming "Alla Akbar" when they enter the court room.

This.
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 07:28:33 PM »

Too bad, that's what happens to a Moslem enrolled in an Eastern Orthodox academy.  What rules do they think would be imposed by a Moslem school upon Orthodox Christians?  I wonder if the parents will be screaming "Alla Akbar" when they enter the court room.

It's not quite that simple when the school is state funded.
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 07:48:32 PM »

Repeat...a school is not a church. 
Right, sooo......."The school claims to "respect the religious beliefs and practice of all staff, pupils and parents".

What's the problem?

Would they make a little Jewish boy remove his yamika?

You asking me (as if that point is relevant)?
If it's not relevant then why the hell is that their policy?


And what about this?



"There is no mention of a ban on headscarves in the uniform policy on the school’s website."
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 07:53:37 PM »

Can't believe an Orthodox school has a headcovering ban. That's ridiculous. Girls should have such modesty as a model.

That being said, most Greek Orthodox schools I know of are more Greek than Orthodox.
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 07:58:15 PM »

Can't believe an Orthodox school has a headcovering ban. That's ridiculous. Girls should have such modesty as a model.

That being said, most Greek Orthodox schools I know of are more Greek than Orthodox.
Well said. While I don't agree with much of Islam, I think Christians in the West could use a lesson in modesty..

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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 08:28:07 PM »

So many fails on every side...

A GREEK Orthodox school is being taken to the High Court for banning a Muslim pupil from wearing a headscarf.

The nine-year-old girl's parents were so incensed at the decision they have pulled her out of St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy, in Thornton Heath...

Problem solved...
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2012, 08:30:01 PM »

Can't believe an Orthodox school has a headcovering ban. That's ridiculous. Girls should have such modesty as a model.

That being said, most Greek Orthodox schools I know of are more Greek than Orthodox.
Well said. While I don't agree with much of Islam, I think Christians in the West could use a lesson in modesty..



Modesty isn't covering one's head in public. Like was earlier mentioned, school isn't church.

If you think women should wear headcoverings all the time, then I feel extremely sorry for you.
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2012, 08:30:39 PM »

Repeat...a school is not a church.  
Right, sooo......."The school claims to "respect the religious beliefs and practice of all staff, pupils and parents".

What's the problem?

Would they make a little Jewish boy remove his yamika?

You asking me (as if that point is relevant)?
If it's not relevant then why the hell is that their policy?


And what about this?



"There is no mention of a ban on headscarves in the uniform policy on the school’s website."

If you must argue the point, the article ALSO states the family was aware of the policy and exactly where they enrolled their child TWO years earlier. Given the venue, I've no doubt the Church will lose the suit with Britain so well along the way to dhimmitude already. Next the family, if they win, will want prayer time set aside, icons or paintings removed. I smell a set up. But I am not up on what constitutes a "private school" over there; I doubt the case would fly over here anyway.
The girl is now enrolled at a CoE school. She'll get a warm welcome there I am sure.
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2012, 08:31:16 PM »

With a name like the one this school has, isn't it a private academy?
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2012, 08:33:00 PM »

So many fails on every side...

A GREEK Orthodox school is being taken to the High Court for banning a Muslim pupil from wearing a headscarf.

The nine-year-old girl's parents were so incensed at the decision they have pulled her out of St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy, in Thornton Heath...

Problem solved...

Huh Huh, they still sued despite pulling the child from the school. It's a show suit. I'm quite sick of Muslim antics.
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2012, 08:42:30 PM »

So many fails on every side...

A GREEK Orthodox school is being taken to the High Court for banning a Muslim pupil from wearing a headscarf.

The nine-year-old girl's parents were so incensed at the decision they have pulled her out of St Cyprian's Greek Orthodox Primary Academy, in Thornton Heath...

Problem solved...

Huh Huh, they still sued despite pulling the child from the school. It's a show suit. I'm quite sick of Muslim antics.

As am I, but the problem was solved when they removed the child from the school, an Orthodox school, and placed the child somewhere else.  So, I guess the question is, why take them to court.  The court should dismiss the case before it ever makes it to the court room.
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2012, 09:04:11 PM »

With a name like the one this school has, isn't it a private academy?

It's a voluntary aided school, meaning the buildings and facilities are privately owned and the governing body must raise at least 10% of the capital costs. This allows a much greater degree of autonomy (VA schools are almost always religious), but as 'maintained schools' (state funded, free tuition) they still have to comply with various government regulations.
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2012, 09:10:54 PM »

With a name like the one this school has, isn't it a private academy?

It's a voluntary aided school, meaning the buildings and facilities are privately owned and the governing body must raise at least 10% of the capital costs. This allows a much greater degree of autonomy (VA schools are almost always religious), but as 'maintained schools' (state funded, free tuition) they still have to comply with various government regulations.

So it is a private religious school. 
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2012, 09:14:58 PM »

So it is a private religious school. 

It's a state funded religious school, but where the buildings are owned by a trust which are allowed a certain degree of autonomy as to how the school should be run.
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2012, 09:48:28 PM »

Perhaps I am missing something.  If I send my children/child to a religious school and I do not like how they operate, I take them out and put them in a different school.  Problem solved.  It really is that easy. 
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« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2012, 09:54:22 PM »

Perhaps I am missing something.  If I send my children/child to a religious school and I do not like how they operate, I take them out and put them in a different school.  Problem solved.  It really is that easy. 

No.  You need to realize that in other countries, things operate differently.  This should not be a difficult concept.
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« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2012, 10:19:03 PM »

It is ironic that on my screen this thread is right above a thread where it is reported that Coptic priests in Sudan have been arrested for accepting the conversion of an ex-Muslim. You're right, James, things certainly do operate differently in other countries. But it is most important that the Muslim parents of this girl get to sue a religious school because it will not allow their daughter to wear her hijab. That is the most important expression of religious liberty that I could ever imagine. Ever. And Muslims certainly deserve it by virtue of being citizens. Yes. Very, very important, and not hypocritical BS on the part of Muslims around the world at all. No.
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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2012, 10:29:19 PM »

You know...I'm not going to go all Allahu Admiral Akbar on the Greeks for restricting Moslem symbolism but this brings up a question...why weren't the Greek girls wearing head coverings???

Because they're not Russians and they don't live in church.
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« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2012, 10:32:13 PM »

Can't believe an Orthodox school has a headcovering ban. That's ridiculous. Girls should have such modesty as a model.

That being said, most Greek Orthodox schools I know of are more Greek than Orthodox.
Well said. While I don't agree with much of Islam, I think Christians in the West could use a lesson in modesty..



Besides this, many Mohammedan women cover their faces, something very objectionable from a Christian POV.

Modesty isn't covering one's head in public. Like was earlier mentioned, school isn't church.

If you think women should wear headcoverings all the time, then I feel extremely sorry for you.
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« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2012, 10:35:09 PM »

Perhaps I am missing something.  If I send my children/child to a religious school and I do not like how they operate, I take them out and put them in a different school.  Problem solved.  It really is that easy. 

But you were offended, and shouldn't have been. Someone must pay for you being offended. Time for a lawsuit--where everyone can pay!
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« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2012, 10:36:50 PM »

It is ironic that on my screen this thread is right above a thread where it is reported that Coptic priests in Sudan have been arrested for accepting the conversion of an ex-Muslim. You're right, James, things certainly do operate differently in other countries. But it is most important that the Muslim parents of this girl get to sue a religious school because it will not allow their daughter to wear her hijab. That is the most important expression of religious liberty that I could ever imagine. Ever. And Muslims certainly deserve it by virtue of being citizens. Yes. Very, very important, and not hypocritical BS on the part of Muslims around the world at all. No.

And if the new school's cafeteria serves pork, it's perfectly reasonable to raise a stink. After all, pork is an abomination.
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« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2012, 10:47:27 PM »

Perhaps I am missing something.  If I send my children/child to a religious school and I do not like how they operate, I take them out and put them in a different school.  Problem solved.  It really is that easy. 

No.  You need to realize that in other countries, things operate differently.  This should not be a difficult concept.
Yes.  In Muslim countries they force all the girls to wear them, Muslim or not.
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« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2012, 11:06:34 PM »

Can't believe an Orthodox school has a headcovering ban. That's ridiculous. Girls should have such modesty as a model.

That being said, most Greek Orthodox schools I know of are more Greek than Orthodox.
Well said. While I don't agree with much of Islam, I think Christians in the West could use a lesson in modesty..



Modesty isn't covering one's head in public. Like was earlier mentioned, school isn't church.

If you think women should wear headcoverings all the time, then I feel extremely sorry for you.
I don't think they should, but I could feel just as sorry for you for thinking they shouldn't.
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« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2012, 11:34:51 PM »

Perhaps I am missing something.  If I send my children/child to a religious school and I do not like how they operate, I take them out and put them in a different school.  Problem solved.  It really is that easy. 

No.  You need to realize that in other countries, things operate differently.  This should not be a difficult concept.
Other nations don't exercise common sense?  Sorry, but that is a difficult concept.

BTW-People in the USA think like these parents.  It's rediculous.
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« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2012, 12:15:23 AM »

Perhaps I am missing something.  If I send my children/child to a religious school and I do not like how they operate, I take them out and put them in a different school.  Problem solved.  It really is that easy.  

No.  You need to realize that in other countries, things operate differently.  This should not be a difficult concept.
Other nations don't exercise common sense?  Sorry, but that is a difficult concept.

BTW-People in the USA think like these parents.  It's rediculous.


What's even more ridiculous is my spelling.  Ouch!
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« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2012, 02:26:04 AM »

Ahh big deal. Screw them. Muslims consistently persecute us in their countries but no one gives a rat's behind, let us extract some vengeance on them in our territory. An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
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« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2012, 02:41:58 AM »

What policy does this Greek School have when the girls join a Greek Dance group and compete?

Most of the girls who participate in Greek Dancing in GOARCH wear traditional head coverings.

To be fair, if the court rules that the Muslim girl cannot wear a head covering, then the Greek Girls should not be allowed to wear their traditional head coverings when competing in Greek dancing, or vice versa, everyone should be allowed to wear a traditional veil. Cannot have it both ways.
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« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2012, 02:59:19 AM »

I read the article again, and again, I see no problem with what the school said.  The parents purposely sought out this specific school, were told of the uniform requirements, it’s a regulated and private type of institution and yet they still expect the school to bend to their will.  Sounds very much like a severe case of whimper to me.  I am reminded of the Muslim students who attended a private Catholic school and were offended when the school wouldn’t take down all of their crosses.  If it’s a problem, don’t go to that school.  A little common sense goes a long way.
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« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2012, 05:07:17 AM »

If an Orthodox Christian wears their baptismal cross to a private school, do you think it'd be okay for that school to tell them that they can't wear it?

I don't think it is okay, and it doesn't matter if it is private because it is still infringing on that persons freedom to practice their religion. That's also why I believe private schools affiliated with religion can't and shouldn't force those not of their religion or sect to behave, believe or dress a certain way. Sure, they can choose staff and students with religion in mind, but if they hire someone or accept a student who practiced a different faith, they can't interfere with their rights.

There are religious affiliated schools who require you to attend services. If its Christian and you're a Muslim, then why should they force you?

A school should have the right to refuse someone. But once that person is within the schools walls, the school must respect that persons freedom to practice their religion.
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« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2012, 05:46:38 AM »

You know...I'm not going to go all Allahu Admiral Akbar on the Greeks for restricting Moslem symbolism but this brings up a question...why weren't the Greek girls wearing head coverings???
I was just thinking the same thing

Me too. But even if the Greek girls choose not to wear head coverings, shame on this school for forcing Muslim girls not to embrace modesty. Things like this greatly hinder our efforts to evangelize Muslims.


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« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2012, 05:49:47 AM »

I read the article again, and again, I see no problem with what the school said.  The parents purposely sought out this specific school, were told of the uniform requirements, it’s a regulated and private type of institution and yet they still expect the school to bend to their will.  Sounds very much like a severe case of whimper to me.  I am reminded of the Muslim students who attended a private Catholic school and were offended when the school wouldn’t take down all of their crosses.  If it’s a problem, don’t go to that school.  A little common sense goes a long way.

I can agree with this. However, I don't think the Greek school should have fought this particular battle. Muslims asking a Christian school to take down their crosses is an absurd request. Muslims asking that they be allowed to cover their heads in a Christian school is not an absurd request. The former is asking Christians to compromise their faith, but the latter is not.


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« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2012, 06:24:45 AM »

If an Orthodox Christian wears their baptismal cross to a private school, do you think it'd be okay for that school to tell them that they can't wear it?

I don't think it is okay, and it doesn't matter if it is private because it is still infringing on that persons freedom to practice their religion. That's also why I believe private schools affiliated with religion can't and shouldn't force those not of their religion or sect to behave, believe or dress a certain way. Sure, they can choose staff and students with religion in mind, but if they hire someone or accept a student who practiced a different faith, they can't interfere with their rights.

There are religious affiliated schools who require you to attend services. If its Christian and you're a Muslim, then why should they force you?

A school should have the right to refuse someone. But once that person is within the schools walls, the school must respect that persons freedom to practice their religion.

If you choose to attend that school, it isn't by force you are doing anything, it's by your choice when you attend.  That is the difference between private and public schools and why public schools are required to remain neutral, because the student does not have a choice in attending.  Private schools can do whatever they want because you can always choose to leave.  By attending that school, you are stating you respect the schools policies, religion, dress code, etc., and give up any right to complain.

For example, if I attend a private university (Protestant), I must comply with their requirements, even if I disagree with them.  My option is to attend a different university.  Very simple.

Also, I am not saying I either agree or disagree with the schools decision, only I agree the choice is with the school, no one else.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 06:35:05 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2012, 06:56:02 AM »

If an Orthodox Christian wears their baptismal cross to a private school, do you think it'd be okay for that school to tell them that they can't wear it?

I don't think it is okay, and it doesn't matter if it is private because it is still infringing on that persons freedom to practice their religion. That's also why I believe private schools affiliated with religion can't and shouldn't force those not of their religion or sect to behave, believe or dress a certain way. Sure, they can choose staff and students with religion in mind, but if they hire someone or accept a student who practiced a different faith, they can't interfere with their rights.

There are religious affiliated schools who require you to attend services. If its Christian and you're a Muslim, then why should they force you?

A school should have the right to refuse someone. But once that person is within the schools walls, the school must respect that persons freedom to practice their religion.

If you choose to attend that school, it isn't by force you are doing anything, it's by your choice when you attend.  That is the difference between private and public schools and why public schools are required to remain neutral, because the student does not have a choice in attending.  Private schools can do whatever they want because you can always choose to leave.  By attending that school, you are stating you respect the schools policies, religion, dress code, etc., and give up any right to complain.

For example, if I attend a private university (Protestant), I must comply with their requirements, even if I disagree with them.  My option is to attend a different university.  Very simple.

Also, I am not saying I either agree or disagree with the schools decision, only I agree the choice is with the school, no one else.

Kerdy is absolutely right. These Muslim parents are total tools. Simply propaganda for the agenda their backers are pushing. Wouldn't be surprised if they got financial backing from Saudi Arabia as well to go to court.

Even better, deport them back to wherever they came from and make the wearing of the hijab illegal in all public/state schools. Sort of like France has done.

This sort of nonsense would never have been attempted pre 1960s.  When will the "sheeple" living in western countries wake up?
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« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2012, 07:03:11 AM »

To be fair, if the court rules that the Muslim girl cannot wear a head covering, then the Greek Girls should not be allowed to wear their traditional head coverings when competing in Greek dancing, or vice versa, everyone should be allowed to wear a traditional veil. Cannot have it both ways.

This is not really a relevant point since we are discussing the regular school uniform here. I don't think Greek students are allowed to wear traditional Greek costumes to class either.
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2012, 07:16:39 AM »

Can't believe an Orthodox school has a headcovering ban. That's ridiculous. Girls should have such modesty as a model.

That being said, most Greek Orthodox schools I know of are more Greek than Orthodox.
Well said. While I don't agree with much of Islam, I think Christians in the West could use a lesson in modesty..



Modesty isn't covering one's head in public. Like was earlier mentioned, school isn't church.

If you think women should wear headcoverings all the time, then I feel extremely sorry for you.
If you think women who would wear headcoverings if they choose to do so as a show of modesty is a problem, then I feel sorry for you. Maybe some people feel they need to be modest in school as welll as in Church. Christians at one time did.

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« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2012, 07:25:08 AM »

Repeat...a school is not a church.  
Right, sooo......."The school claims to "respect the religious beliefs and practice of all staff, pupils and parents".

What's the problem?

Would they make a little Jewish boy remove his yamika?

You asking me (as if that point is relevant)?
If it's not relevant then why the hell is that their policy?


And what about this?



"There is no mention of a ban on headscarves in the uniform policy on the school’s website."

If you must argue the point, the article ALSO states the family was aware of the policy and exactly where they enrolled their child TWO years earlier. Given the venue, I've no doubt the Church will lose the suit with Britain so well along the way to dhimmitude already. Next the family, if they win, will want prayer time set aside, icons or paintings removed. I smell a set up. But I am not up on what constitutes a "private school" over there; I doubt the case would fly over here anyway.
The girl is now enrolled at a CoE school. She'll get a warm welcome there I am sure.
Right and when they enrolled her there was a policy to respect their religious beliefs (within reason) and no mention of a ban on hijab or headcoverings. What is the problem with this young girl wanting to display a show of modesty to her peers? The school damn well knew the traditions of Muslims before they enrolled her and now want to make an issue of it?

Maybe these Christians aren't being convincing enough to compel the family to possibly convert away from Islam to begin with and this certainly isn't going to accomplish anything but cause them to despise the school and perhaps Orthodoxy itself.

The only "dhimmitude" going on here are by the secularists.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 07:26:33 AM by Charles Martel » Logged

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