tweety234
Sr. Member
 Offline
Faith: Ask the Answer
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 628
|
 |
« on: December 19, 2012, 02:37:31 PM » |
|
ho many levels of heaven are there?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
|
|
|
|
Monk Vasyl
|
|
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 02:43:13 PM » |
|
Don't know, but I would be very happy being even at the lowest level.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl
|
|
|
biro
Ursus maritimus
Site Supporter
Stratopedarches
Offline
Faith: Raised Roman Catholic; now attend GOA
Jurisdiction: Metropolis of Atlanta
Posts: 9,592
Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
|
|
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 03:00:35 PM » |
|
Who are you calling Ho? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
phthalyl.podomatic.com
the-cornet.blogspot.com
|
|
|
Wyatt
OC.net guru
Offline
Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,375
|
|
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 04:56:27 PM » |
|
Don't know, but I would be very happy being even at the lowest level. Same here. I'm sure all of the Holy Saints and Martyrs of the Church are in a much higher level than I will ever be in, but if I'm there at all I will be very happy and grateful. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
tweety234
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Ask the Answer
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 628
|
|
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 06:35:10 PM » |
|
Don't know, but I would be very happy being even at the lowest level. Agreed. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
|
|
|
tweety234
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Ask the Answer
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 628
|
|
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 06:35:10 PM » |
|
Who are you calling Ho? Typographical error. "How" I meant. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
|
|
|
biro
Ursus maritimus
Site Supporter
Stratopedarches
Offline
Faith: Raised Roman Catholic; now attend GOA
Jurisdiction: Metropolis of Atlanta
Posts: 9,592
Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
|
|
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 06:44:46 PM » |
|
Who are you calling Ho? Typographical error. "How" I meant. I thought so, I'm just kidding.  No harm meant. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
phthalyl.podomatic.com
the-cornet.blogspot.com
|
|
|
JamesRottnek
Taxiarches
Offline
Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 4,539
I am Bibleman
|
|
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 06:52:16 PM » |
|
I don't think it matters how many levels Heaven has, since we should all be looking forward to a future on Earth.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?
The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.
American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.
Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
|
|
|
pmpn8rGPT
我不會說中國話
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Eastern Orthodox (old calendarist)
Posts: 697
יהוה יעזור לנו
|
|
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 09:00:39 PM » |
|
not sure, but I have heard that there are seven that is ho many levels there are |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
טוֹב, לַחֲסוֹת בַּיהוָה-- מִבְּטֹחַ, בָּאָדָם.
|
|
|
|
JamesR
|
|
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 11:48:17 PM » |
|
This sounds very legalistic and heretical. Heaven is a state of being that is determined by how our souls react to being in the presence of God's love--which is directly correlated to how we treat our souls in this present life.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
|
|
|
|
Shanghaiski
|
|
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 12:04:08 AM » |
|
This sounds very legalistic and heretical. Heaven is a state of being that is determined by how our souls react to being in the presence of God's love--which is directly correlated to how we treat our souls in this present life.
Hold on, bro. Heaven is also a place and has its own geography, though it's impossible to talk about it since we don't know much. One of the modern Orthodox fathers, I can't recall which, spoke of how each person in heaven will have a different glory. This is obvious, since there are saints who have attained to greater honor through their suffering or their ascesis or whatever than those who, like us, may be there simply because of the kindness and mercy of God, because we gave what we could to God from our poverty and weakness and He gave us from His abundance of grace. But, the modern father said, those in heaven will not be able to tell who has more or less glory. So no one will feel a lack or be able to lord it over anyone else. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
|
|
|
|
NicholasMyra
|
|
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2012, 12:18:33 AM » |
|
When St. Paul talked about "levels of heaven" that one time, he was almost certainly referring to the Greek understanding of various celestial spheres, or "heavens". So it would be the equivalent of someone saying "I knew a man... who was caught up to the troposphere", or "in the clouds".
IMO.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 12:19:48 AM by NicholasMyra »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
yeshuaisiam
Archon
Offline
Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 2,605
The best things in life are not things.
|
|
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 12:32:43 AM » |
|
When St. Paul talked about "levels of heaven" that one time, he was almost certainly referring to the Greek understanding of various celestial spheres, or "heavens". So it would be the equivalent of someone saying "I knew a man... who was caught up to the troposphere", or "in the clouds".
IMO
But which level is Nirvana? I mean somebody's gotta be head banging in the clouds right?  You are making a very interesting point here. Do you have any expansion on this or links/sermons etc. Would like to hear more. I've often wondered on this topic a lot, and sometimes wondered if the spheres were actually planets (like Jupiter, Venus, etc.) or if they had more of an elaborate understanding that concurs with the basis of Christian understanding... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
FatherGiryus
You are being watched.
High Elder
Offline
Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch - NA
Posts: 1,805
|
|
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2012, 01:48:26 AM » |
|
It depends on what counting system you use: the Mayan Long Enumeration, the Revised Standard Sublime, the Chinese ("We Chinese have a lot of hells."), or the Norse Declension.
</bad humor>
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Alpo
|
|
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2012, 03:31:28 AM » |
|
Don't know, but I would be very happy being even at the lowest level. Limbo? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Just a little reminder: this forum is not called OrthodoxChristianityUSA.net  |
|
|
Justin Kolodziej
Jr. Member
Offline
Faith: Plain old boring Roman-Rite Catholic
Jurisdiction: The Roman Pontiff/Diocese of Raleigh
Posts: 83
Scarcely corrigible aphron
|
|
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2012, 01:23:11 PM » |
|
Don't know, but I would be very happy being even at the lowest level. Limbo? That's technically Hell without the fire, since there is still no beatific vision (i know, foreign language to yall). You only go there if you are unbaptized and never committed a sin. It's also not an undisputed doctrine either, we are currently hoping God can save the unbaptized. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I am blessed to be an Austrian-Galician-Polish-Ruthenian-American.
If I had more faith less things would anger me.
St. Justin Martyr, St. John Cassian, and all Desert Fathers, pray for me!
|
|
|
tweety234
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Ask the Answer
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 628
|
|
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2012, 01:37:49 PM » |
|
I don't think it matters how many levels Heaven has, since we should all be looking forward to a future on Earth.
interesting. Is that where people will stay after Judgement? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
|
|
|
Wyatt
OC.net guru
Offline
Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,375
|
|
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2012, 03:29:03 PM » |
|
Don't know, but I would be very happy being even at the lowest level. Limbo? That's technically Hell without the fire, since there is still no beatific vision (i know, foreign language to yall). You only go there if you are unbaptized and never committed a sin. It's also not an undisputed doctrine either, we are currently hoping God can save the unbaptized. Of course He can. He's God. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Shanghaiski
|
|
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2012, 05:27:49 PM » |
|
I don't think it matters how many levels Heaven has, since we should all be looking forward to a future on Earth.
interesting. Is that where people will stay after Judgement? "And behold, I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the former things had passed away." |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
|
|
|
JamesRottnek
Taxiarches
Offline
Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 4,539
I am Bibleman
|
|
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2012, 05:45:35 PM » |
|
I don't think it matters how many levels Heaven has, since we should all be looking forward to a future on Earth.
interesting. Is that where people will stay after Judgement? "And behold, I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the former things had passed away." In other words, IMO (and the O of at least some Orthodox theologians and saints, amongst other Christians), yes. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?
The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.
American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.
Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
|
|
|
|
NicholasMyra
|
|
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2012, 02:00:17 AM » |
|
You are making a very interesting point here. Do you have any expansion on this or links/sermons etc. Would like to hear more.
Google St. Basil "On the Firmament". |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
NicholasMyra
|
|
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2012, 02:01:45 AM » |
|
interesting. Is that where people will stay after Judgement?
Yes. The redeemed creation. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Kerdy
|
|
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2012, 02:12:00 AM » |
|
There is Heaven. Does anything else really matter outside of getting there?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
|
|
|
|
NicholasMyra
|
|
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2012, 02:21:27 AM » |
|
There is Heaven. Does anything else really matter outside of getting there?
Bringing it to earth. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Kerdy
|
|
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2012, 02:25:19 AM » |
|
There is Heaven. Does anything else really matter outside of getting there?
Bringing it to earth. That kind is falls into getting to heaven, but I think you know what I'm getting at here. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
|
|
|
tweety234
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Ask the Answer
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 628
|
|
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2012, 05:23:33 AM » |
|
interesting. Is that where people will stay after Judgement?
Yes. The redeemed creation. does that include the wicked too. Or will they be burning for an eternity? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
|
|
|
tweety234
Sr. Member
Offline
Faith: Ask the Answer
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 628
|
|
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2012, 05:23:33 AM » |
|
There is Heaven. Does anything else really matter outside of getting there?
Bringing it to earth. That kind is falls into getting to heaven, but I think you know what I'm getting at here. please explain. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
|
|
|
|
