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Author Topic: Baptist for the death and for the baby?  (Read 402 times) Average Rating: 0
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walter1234
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« on: December 19, 2012, 08:36:36 AM »

I've heard some Catholic Church have the baptism for the dead ( I am not sure whether this is true or not.) Do Orthodox Church have this  practice?

Catholic Church would baptist for the babies. Do Orthodox Church have this practice?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 08:37:18 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 08:44:20 AM »

Walter I am unclear about what you asking.

Are you asking two different questions:

Does the Orthodox Church baptize the dead?

And.

Does the Orthodox Church baptize babies?

No to the first question.

Yes to the second question.

Why are you combining or perhaps conflating the two issues?

Others with more time can fill you in on all the details regarding the baptism of infants.

I don't think the RCC baptizes the dead. And by "think", I mean 99.99999% sure.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 08:44:33 AM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 08:44:43 AM »

Catholics do not baptise the dead. Both Catholics and Orthodox baptise babies.

I don't think the RCC baptizes the dead. And by "think", I mean 99.99999% sure.

Make that 100%. Only Mormons baptise the dead AFAIK.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 08:45:35 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 09:13:46 AM »

Roman Catholics do not baptize the dead. They do believe that we can pray for the dead, in the hope that the Lord will have mercy on them. But only Mormons do the baptism 'of' the dead.
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 09:34:10 AM »

Baby do not know what repentance is, why would Orthodox church still have baptism for them?

« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 09:34:48 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 09:44:19 AM »

Baby do not know what repentance is, why would Orthodox church still have baptism for them?



Just a start:

Out of the mouths of babes and nursing infants You have perfected praise (Matt. 21:16, during Christ's triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the little ones were crying out "Hosanna")

Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” 16 And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them. (Mark 10: 13-16)

And, a similar passage from Matt. 19:

13 Then little children were brought to Him that He might put His hands on them and pray, but the disciples rebuked them. 14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” 15 And He laid His hands on them and departed from there.
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 09:45:49 AM »

Baby do not know what repentance is, why would Orthodox church still have baptism for them?



"Suffer the little children to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of Heaven."

"And Lydia was baptized, along with her entire household."

The Orthodox Church has always permitted infant baptism. Because human beings are sinners, if we waited until we all had perfect repentance, we'd be waiting our whole lives, and never get there. We don't hesitate to teach a baby how to eat, use the bathroom and wash its hands. We wouldn't hesitate to call an ambulance if the baby were hurt. So we don't hesitate to bring them into the Body of Christ, because we want them to spend as much of their lives as possible in an environment where they can see and know and practice the faith.
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 12:07:47 PM »

Denying infant baptism, which has been practiced by the Church since the beginning, comes from a mistaken view of baptism. Baptism is not about what we do - it is about what God is doing.
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 12:55:27 PM »

Catholic priests will baptize someone who died up to 3 hours after death.  But it is not a belief of baptizing the dead, rather more of a "what-if" and hoping the soul still is with the body at that point.  This is because not all organs shut down at the same time so in some form the person could still be alive.
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 03:00:44 PM »

Catholic priests will baptize someone who died up to 3 hours after death.  But it is not a belief of baptizing the dead, rather more of a "what-if" and hoping the soul still is with the body at that point.  This is because not all organs shut down at the same time so in some form the person could still be alive.

?

Could you please offer some source material on this?
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 03:07:51 PM »

Well, a Catholic priest told everyone in the room that.  Everyone in the room, including myself, are catechists for the RC Archdiocese (this was 3 years ago) and he was teaching about the 7 Sacraments and obviously the topic is on baptism.  And the session was a quarterly formal learning institute for all the catechists in the archdiocese.

Other than that, I have no source material.  I never bothered to research futher on the topic.
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 03:14:00 PM »

I didn't know about any three hour thing. I guess it might make sense for someone who is dying. I've heard of lots of emergency baptisms for dying soldiers in wartime. I could see how the priest would baptize as quickly as possible, out of compassion.
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 03:20:31 PM »

Note though that what is done is having hope that the person is still alive, not that the RC Church believes they can baptize the dead.  I guess you can ask this question, if one is declared brain dead and is only kept alive by machines, can you still baptize that person?  This is about us not knowing when the separation of soul and body actually takes place and so rather do this for the good of the soul of the person than not even try.
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 03:21:37 PM »

Note though that what is done is having hope that the person is still alive, not that the RC Church believes they can baptize the dead.  I guess you can ask this question, if one is declared brain dead and is only kept alive by machines, can you still baptize that person?  This is about us not knowing when the separation of soul and body actually takes place and so rather do this for the good of the soul of the person than not even try.

I started a new thread in the OC-RCC forum.
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 04:06:55 PM »

Baby do not know what repentance is, why would Orthodox church still have baptism for them?



Also consider this: Should people who are mentally disabled, either from birth, or through injury (and therefore unable to fully understand) be baptised? Yes or no? The Orthodox answer is definitely YES.
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2012, 04:11:19 PM »

Baby do not know what repentance is, why would Orthodox church still have baptism for them?



Also consider this: Should people who are mentally disabled, either from birth, or through injury (and therefore unable to fully understand) be baptised? Yes or no? The Orthodox answer is definitely YES.

Also, babies know more than we give them credit for.  They know when they are hungry, they know when they feel something both positive and negative.  Just because it is not coherent to us doesn't mean babies are oblivious.  They are probably more in tune with the spiritual realities than us adults, as we are already clouded by human knowledge.
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