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Author Topic: have baptism immediately after man believe and confesses Jesus as their savior  (Read 331 times) Average Rating: 0
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walter1234
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« on: December 19, 2012, 08:15:25 AM »

Recently, some Protestant Churches promote and teach that a man should Baptist immediately after he/she believe in and confesses Jesus as our lord and savior . They claim that this is the practice of early church with the support of Act 2:40-41, Act 8:36-38, Act 16:32-33.

Do Orthodox Church agree with it?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 08:39:34 AM by walter1234 » Logged
orthonorm
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 08:55:25 AM »

Recently, some Protestant Churches promote and teach that a man should Baptist immediately after he/she believe in and confesses Jesus as our lord and savior . They claim that this is the practice of early church with the support of Act 2:40-41, Act 8:36-38, Act 16:32-33.

Do Orthodox Church agree with it?

This is a can of worms frankly.

You have two answers:

Yes.

No with a significant but.

This is going to come down to what belief means in general what belief that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior means.

Belief is never a mere intellectual act.
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 11:45:55 PM »

Recently, some Protestant Churches promote and teach that a man should Baptist immediately after he/she believe in and confesses Jesus as our lord and savior

There's a few things about that. First and foremost, I think a lot of this depends upon which Jesus they confess as Lord and Savior. Is it the TRUE Jesus who is Lord and Savior which the Holy Tradition, Sacraments, and Saints of the Church bear witness to?--the true Jesus? OR, is it the false Jesus of a person's mind, or the Jesus of misunderstanding? Remember, just because a person confesses some abstract faith in "Jesus Christ' does not really mean that they are confessing faith to the true Jesus Christ. When you hold improper, false heretical views about Jesus, then you are not really confessing faith to the true Jesus Christ, but to your own manmade idol of what you THINK Jesus Christ is like. This is why we would generally require a catechismal period between a person's confession of Jesus Christ and their Baptism--so that we could teach them who the TRUE Jesus is, and ensure that they are not really just confessing faith to an idol which they call Jesus. This is especially true in modern times when there are so many heresies and false teachings about God in the world--when a person claims belief in Jesus, you don't know WHICH Jesus they are talking about. Which one? The Jesus of the Southern Baptists? The Jesus of the Roman Catholics? The Jesus of the Jehova's Witnesses? The Jesus of your mind? etc.---all of which are manmade idols to be frank. We have to teach people who the TRUE Jesus is, then--after they confess faith and allegiance to that true Jesus--we would Baptise them.

It is also important to mention that we would also Baptise infants--because we believe that they will be raised in the Church and thus will come to learn about the TRUE Jesus as they grow and their cognitive factors develop. This is sort of a hang-up for many Protestants--they assume that you MUST confess Jesus first THEN be Baptised--they call it "Believer's Baptism". We however in the Orthodox Church would not accept this teachings. We believe that God's grace extends to EVERYONE--regardless of age and even regardless of health and medical conditions. When Protestants assert Believers Baptism, they are confronted with the dilemma of how to handle the mentally impaired--those who are mentally incapable of understanding or confessing faith in God--by their own logic, since they cannot confess faith in God, they should not be Baptised. We however in the Orthodox Church would say that yes, we can Baptise them along with infants. God's grace is not impeded upon by age or health. The reason for this is because Protestants generally view Baptism as more of a PROCLAMATION--IE, it has really no saving power and just a way to "confess" your faith in God publically and maybe please Him. This is why I know several Protestants who've been Baptised like four times, just so that they could proclaim their "faith in God" to their friends. Baptism doesn't really have any saving powers and thus is not Sacramental to them.

We however assert that Baptism is NOT just a "proclamation" that is of secondary importance, but that Baptism is more about the receiving of God's grace--it has true saving powers--which is what we would call "Sacramental"--that through Baptism, God truly applies some of the medicine to our souls and bodies to save us. And that God can apply this medicine to our souls and bodies via His grace to ANYONE--regardless of age or mental condition. Our view is more in line with the Scriptures. St. Paul makes it very clear in his epistle to the Romans in Chapter 6 that "Therefore we were buried with Him through Baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in the newness of life. For if we have united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His Resurrection." You see that Baptism is truly an event where we experience God's saving powers--not a "proclamation" for "Believers".

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They claim that this is the practice of early church with the support of Act 2:40-41, Act 8:36-38, Act 16:32-33.

Sorta Kinda

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Do Orthodox Church agree with it?

Once again, sorta kinda with a huge BUT somewhere in there
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 12:07:04 AM »

Recently, some Protestant Churches promote and teach that a man should Baptist immediately after he/she believe in and confesses Jesus as our lord and savior . They claim that this is the practice of early church with the support of Act 2:40-41, Act 8:36-38, Act 16:32-33.

Do Orthodox Church agree with it?

No. The tradition from the earliest times is for someone desiring to be baptized to be catechized in Christian morality prior to baptism and in Christian dogma after baptism. This is very important to ensure the spiritual health of the convert and his or her spiritual growth. This is from the time of the Apostles. IIRC, even in Acts, baptizees are catechized at least somewhat. The faith of the Church is of the Church, not merely a personal confession. Baptism is for membership in the Church. Do you sense the pattern?
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