OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 26, 2014, 02:59:24 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Valid Ordinations?  (Read 458 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
parhelion
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 11


« on: December 17, 2012, 07:44:36 PM »

How does the Eastern Orthodox Church view the validity of Catholic priests?  Anglican priests?
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 08:37:45 PM »

How does the Eastern Orthodox Church view the validity of Catholic priests?  Anglican priests?
We don't.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Andrew21091
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,271



« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 09:25:24 PM »

"With either the Roman Catholic understanding of character or the Orthodox understanding of the creation of a permanent hindrance due to sin, "reordination" is impossible. Even in cases when a Roman Catholic cleric may lose clerical status either through cause or petition, the sacred Ordination never becomes invalid. For both Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics, when a member of the clergy who has been ordained in a church that shares with them an understanding of the Priesthood and by a Bishop in an unquestionable apostolic succession is received into either the Orthodox or the Roman Catholic Church, his ordination should be recognized. It should be noted, however, that until such time when the practice of the Orthodox Church will be unified, these cases will be decided by each Autocephalous Orthodox Church."

From a statement made by SCOBA in 1988.
http://www.scoba.us/resources/orthodox-catholic-bishops/1988ordination.html

Also, from the OCA website:

"What is the current view of the OCA on the validity of Roman Catholic orders?

Concerning Roman Catholic orders: Within the OCA Roman Catholic clergy generally are received into the Orthodox Church through “vesting”; that is, they are not ordained anew. While there are some Orthodox Christians today who would not follow this practice, there is evidence that this was in fact the practice in Russia several centuries ago. One must also keep in mind that the practice of the Orthodox Church on this issue has been subject to change from time to time and place to place, often depending on situations appropriate to the setting."

http://oca.org/questions/romancatholicism/validity-of-roman-catholic-orders

So, the answer to your question is Catholic orders may be valid or not. It depends on who you ask.
Logged
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Moderated
Toumarches
************
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,443


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 10:24:19 PM »

A clergyman of a non-Orthodox denomination cannot serve as a clergyman in an Orthodox church. Period. The only way he might be allowed to do so is to convert to Orthodoxy first. Then, his bishop will decide whether he can serve as clergy. It doesn't always happen.

Naturally, any female priests, such as those in the Anglican church, can never serve as priests in the Orthodox church, even if they convert.
Logged
OrthoNoob
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,047



« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 10:52:32 PM »

A clergyman of a non-Orthodox denomination cannot serve as a clergyman in an Orthodox church. Period.

Of course not. Perish the thought. But if we assume that the OP was referring to "valid ordination" in the sense understood by the RCC, this doesn't really answer the question.
Logged

http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com -- My blog

'These words I, Leo, have set down for love and as a safeguard of the Orthodox Faith'
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Moderated
Toumarches
************
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,443


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 10:54:45 PM »

A clergyman of a non-Orthodox denomination cannot serve as a clergyman in an Orthodox church. Period.

Of course not. Perish the thought. But if we assume that the OP was referring to "valid ordination" in the sense understood by the RCC, this doesn't really answer the question.

Of course it does. "Validity" is an essentially meaningless term. Either a non-Orthodox cleric can serve, or he cannot. And those who are received into the Church are either reordained or vested before they are allowed to serve. They can't just serve without some sort of "completion" of their previous ordination.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 10:56:05 PM by LBK » Logged
OrthoNoob
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,047



« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 10:58:39 PM »

A clergyman of a non-Orthodox denomination cannot serve as a clergyman in an Orthodox church. Period.

Of course not. Perish the thought. But if we assume that the OP was referring to "valid ordination" in the sense understood by the RCC, this doesn't really answer the question.

Of course it does. "Validity" is an essentially meaningless term. Either a non-Orthodox cleric can serve, or he cannot. And those who are received into the Church are either reordained or vested before they are allowed to serve. They can't just serve without some sort of "completion" of their previous ordination.

With respect, no, it doesn't, and it's not.

In the view of the RCC, the Orthodox Eucharist is truly Christ's Body and Blood, because the Orthodox Church has a valid priesthood. Lutheran churches, again in the view of the RCC and IIRC, by and large do not have a valid priesthood and therefore their Eucharist is not the Body and Blood of Christ.

You need not accept these views, and indeed as far as I know it's perfectly Orthodox to say there is no true Eucharist outside the canonical bounds of the Orthodox Church, so don't misunderstand me. But the concept, whether accurate or not, is far from meaningless.
Logged

http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com -- My blog

'These words I, Leo, have set down for love and as a safeguard of the Orthodox Faith'
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Moderated
Toumarches
************
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,443


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 11:04:12 PM »

Quote
In the view of the RCC, the Orthodox Eucharist is truly Christ's Body and Blood, because the Orthodox Church has a valid priesthood.

In the view of the RCC, those of an Orthodox baptism are allowed to receive the Eucharist at an RCC church. Another meaningless teaching, as any Orthodox willingly doing so will have separated himself from the Orthodox Church.
Logged
OrthoNoob
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,047



« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 11:04:57 PM »

Quote
In the view of the RCC, the Orthodox Eucharist is truly Christ's Body and Blood, because the Orthodox Church has a valid priesthood.

In the view of the RCC, those of an Orthodox baptism are allowed to receive the Eucharist at an RCC church. Another meaningless teaching, as any Orthodox willingly doing so will have separated himself from the Orthodox Church.

I don't think we're operating on the same definition of "meaningless" here.
Logged

http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com -- My blog

'These words I, Leo, have set down for love and as a safeguard of the Orthodox Faith'
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Moderated
Toumarches
************
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,443


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 11:06:39 PM »

Quote
In the view of the RCC, the Orthodox Eucharist is truly Christ's Body and Blood, because the Orthodox Church has a valid priesthood.

In the view of the RCC, those of an Orthodox baptism are allowed to receive the Eucharist at an RCC church. Another meaningless teaching, as any Orthodox willingly doing so will have separated himself from the Orthodox Church.

I don't think we're operating on the same definition of "meaningless" here.

Perhaps useless might have been a better choice of words.
Logged
OrthoNoob
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,047



« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 11:12:56 PM »

Quote
In the view of the RCC, the Orthodox Eucharist is truly Christ's Body and Blood, because the Orthodox Church has a valid priesthood.

In the view of the RCC, those of an Orthodox baptism are allowed to receive the Eucharist at an RCC church. Another meaningless teaching, as any Orthodox willingly doing so will have separated himself from the Orthodox Church.

I don't think we're operating on the same definition of "meaningless" here.

Perhaps useless might have been a better choice of words.

All right.
Logged

http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com -- My blog

'These words I, Leo, have set down for love and as a safeguard of the Orthodox Faith'
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,999


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2012, 12:43:38 AM »

And those who are received into the Church are either reordained or vested before they are allowed to serve. They can't just serve without some sort of "completion" of their previous ordination.

Historically this has not held true.  No reordination or vesting for the thousands of Greek Catholic priests forced back into the Russian, Czechoslovak, or Romanian Orthodox Churches after WWII or those who voluntarily returned to the Orthodox Church her in America and Canada.
Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,951



« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2012, 01:56:15 AM »

Validity is Western captivity.
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.064 seconds with 39 queries.