Author Topic: Renouncing at chrismation  (Read 1185 times)

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Offline nrse

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Renouncing at chrismation
« on: December 17, 2012, 11:04:03 AM »
when i was chrismated 2 Paschas ago, my dear husband attended.....slowly, as we discuss theology and faith since then, he has come to understand and appreciate Orthodoxy more and more- and he has been and is increasingly frustrated w evangelicalism....

the other day however, he commented that he was stunned at my chrismation that i was asked, and did in fact, renounce the Reformation....(Father used the prayers for a Lutheran converting to Orthodoxy, if i understood him correctly)....there were so many emotions circulating in me at the time, but i do have a vague memory of that phrase....unfortunately, i am unable to find the tex of the ceremony so that i can put it into context...:-/

can anyone first, help me find the text and
second, help me explain this to husband?

thank you friends, georgiana

Offline Agabus

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 12:18:05 PM »
This is the text of the reception of Lutheran converts from the Hapgood service book:

The Bishop questioneth the convert from the Lutheran Confession thus ;

Dost thou renounce the false doctrine that, for the expres-sion of the dogma touching the Procession of the Holy Ghost the declaration of our Saviour Christ himself : " who proceedeth from the Father " : doth not suffice ; and that the addition, of man's invention : "and from the Son": is required ?

Answer I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief that in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist the bread is not transmuted into
the Body of Christ, and doth not become the Body of Christ; and that the wine is not transmuted into the Blood of Christ, and doth
not become the Blood of Christ ; but that the presence of Christ's Body only for a short time doth touch the bread, which remaineth simple bread ?

Answer, I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief of the teachers who do not accept as Sacraments Chrismation, Marriage, Anointing with Oil, and the Priesthood itself, and presume to administer Bap-tism and the Eucharist, never having received, through the
laying-on of hands by a Bishop, that Ordination which hath been transmitted from one to another, even from the holy Apostles ?

Attswer. I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief of the teachers who receive not the traditions of the Holy Church, reverence not the Saints, and deprive the dead of spiritual aid and the living of spiritual consolation, in that they re-ject prayers for the dead?

Answer. I do.

Wilt thou renounce the errors and false doctrines Lutheran Confession?

And he shall reply : I will.

Then the Bishop demandeth of him, from whatever Confession he may come : Dost thou desire to enter into the communion of the Orthodox- Catholic Faith ?

Answer I do.

Then the Bishop, rising, signeth him with his right hand, in the form of a cross saying :

In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit
Amen.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 12:20:05 PM by Agabus »
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 12:19:55 PM »
Are there special chrismation-renunciation texts for converts from different religions, like Islam or Hinduism?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 12:27:55 PM »
Are there special chrismation-renunciation texts for converts from different religions, like Islam or Hinduism?
Again, in the Hapgood book:

(I apologize for the formatting)

The Catechumen is then asked to renounce his errors and confess his belief

The Jew renounceth : The blasphemies of the Jews against Jesus
Christ our Saviour, his most holy Mother and his Saints ; circum-
cision ; the observation of Saturday, and all Jewish festivals and
ceremonies ; the Rabbinical interpretation of the Scriptures con-
tained in the Talmud and ancient and modern writings ; the doc-
trine that the Messiah is not yet come ; and the vain expectation
of his coming.

( The Jew accepteth the belief: That the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit art
one God, divided in three Persons, but in Essence undivided; that Jesus Christ,
the Only-begotten Son of God, was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin
Mary for the sake of our salvation, and betame very man, yet remaining very
God, one in Essence, but in two Persons, divine and human ; thai our Lord
Jesus Christ, of his own free will, in very truth, and not in appearance only,
suffered for us in the flesh, but not in his divinity, and, having died and been
buried as man* rose again by virtue of his divinity ', and ascended into heaven
in the flesh; that the Virgin Mary was and remained truly Virgin, and therefore
is worthy of reverence as the chief intercessor for us with God; and that the
Cross of Christ was the instrument and emblem of our salvation,)

The Mahometan renounceth: The Mahometan faith, and its So-
phistries; Mahomet, as being a false prophet; the Koran and all
false legends, laws and traditions therein contained ; the pilgrim-
age to Mecca for worship, as salutary to the soul ; the inculcation
of polygamy in this life, and the teaching: as to sensual pleasures in
Paradise; and the blasphemies which Mahometans utter touching
Christ our Saviour, his most holy Mother, and Christians.

{He accepteth all the points set forth for the Jew, and in addition the belief that
the Holy Scriptures contained in the Old and New Testaments, as accepted by
the Church, are the Word of God, given for our salvation, and were written
by the holy men of God who were illumined by the Holy Spirit ; that the tradi-
tions, regulations and prayers which have comedown from the Apostles nnd
the holy Fathers of the Church are salutary for the soul; and that the Apostles,
Martyrs, and all the Saints revered by the Holy Church are, in very truth, Saints of God
who abide with Christ in the kingdom of heaven, and pray for us sinners.
He also professeth belief touching the holy images {see page 459) required
from all converts.)

The Heathen renounceth: Heathen superstitions; the adoration
of created things; the worship of material statues, and bowing
down to idols ; the offering and eating of sacrifices unto idols ;
idolatrous priests and magicians, and their superstitious deeds and
soothsaying.

{He accepteth the same as the Mahometan.)

The Convert then maketh oath of allegiance.

I, N., who am come from Judaism (Mahometanism, Heathenism) to
the Christian faith, to-day take my oath before omniscient God, that I
renounce the false doctrine of the Jews (Mahometans, Heathens), and
all the heresies and calumnies therein contained, and enter the saving
faith of Christ, not because of any compulsion or fear, nor because of
the oppression of my fellow-believers, and not for the sake of gain,
neither by reason of any hidden guilt on my part, but solely for the
salvation of my soul. Being convinced of the very truth of this faith,
and drawn by the love of my heart unto Christ the Saviour, I desire to
become a Christian, and that holy Baptism may be vouchsafed unto
me. And if I now assert these things through hyprocrisy, and come
not unto Christ my God through the desire of my heart ; and if I
shall hereafter dare to renounce the Christian faith, and return unto
Judaism (Mahometanism, Heathenism), may the wrath of God and ever-
lasting damnation befall me.

And after this, he receiveth Baptism, Chrismation and the Holy Communion.


« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 12:28:16 PM by Agabus »
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Offline soderquj

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 01:09:54 PM »
This must be a Russian/Slavonic custom as I did not see anything like this when I was baptized in the GOA.

GOARCH links here.

http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/catechumen
http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/baptism
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 01:36:50 PM »
This must be a Russian/Slavonic custom as I did not see anything like this when I was baptized in the GOA.

GOARCH links here.

http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/catechumen
http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/baptism
For what it’s worth, it wasn’t used in the Antiochian church in which I was chrismated. I just know that the forms exist should a need arise.

The Hapgood book was translated from Russian sources.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 01:37:13 PM by Agabus »
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Joseph Hazen

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 02:10:55 PM »
I was just asked if I renounced my "former delusions." Is there one for Roman Catholics?

*edit* Oh never mind, I found it. Interesting.

I kind of see a good side to this type of reception. It really makes you face the fact that there are things you have to let go of and leave behind. It sort of hits you in the teeth when you read it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 02:14:52 PM by Joseph Hazen »

Online Cyrillic

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 02:22:02 PM »
I do wonder what I would have to renounce when being chrismated.
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Offline nrse

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 02:51:09 PM »
thank you first, for moving and secondly for the answers...

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 10:02:44 PM »
Are there special chrismation-renunciation texts for converts from different religions, like Islam or Hinduism?

Of course, my son, there's a special chrismation-renunciation text for everything!

Of course, for non-Christian religions and several Christian groups, these are done at baptism.
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Offline sprtslvr1973

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2012, 08:49:13 AM »
At my OCA church, I believe the convert is asked to renounce 'generic' heresy (anything that conflicts with Orthodox Christian teaching). Therefore a Lutheran would not have to renounce his church's teaching on Baptism or the Eucharist.
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 02:06:56 AM »
I didn't have to do this when I was received into the OCA. I have heard about it, though...kind of wish I had gotten to do it.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Renouncing at chrismation
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 02:38:46 AM »
I wasn't asked to renounce anything when I was received despite being a convert. The Finnish practice is to make people sign/say aloud during first confession a short clarification of Faith that they believe and want to believe what the Church teaches in various ways through councils and customs.