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JamesR
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« on: December 15, 2012, 11:56:06 PM » |
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I was reading the Gospel of St. John last night and I was on chapter 6--the part where Jesus is discussing the Eucharist. Anyhow, I noticed John 6:66, which says "From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. " and the passage was referring to when people left Him behind because they could not understand the Mystery of the Eucharist. Does the legendary "666" of Revelation refer to this passage in John--to this apostating because you cannot understand the Eucharist? If so, does this mean that Protestants who do not accept the literal presence of the Eucharist and reject the Orthodox Church because of it are bearing the mark of the beast?
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 11:56:30 PM by JamesR »
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 12:00:01 AM » |
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No. Verse numbers were added much later.
Besides, all the cool kids go with 616. Satan is sneaky like that!
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JamesR
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 12:00:48 AM » |
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No. Verse numbers were added much later.
Besides, all the cool kids go with 616. Satan is sneaky like that!
Actually, I'm pretty sure that the 616 only appears in a single document. I could be wrong though. |
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 12:02:09 AM » |
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I was reading the Gospel of St. John last night and I was on chapter 6--the part where Jesus is discussing the Eucharist. Anyhow, I noticed John 6:66, which says "From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. " and the passage was referring to when people left Him behind because they could not understand the Mystery of the Eucharist. Does the legendary "666" of Revelation refer to this passage in John--to this apostating because you cannot understand the Eucharist? If so, does this mean that Protestants who do not accept the literal presence of the Eucharist and reject the Orthodox Church because of it are bearing the mark of the beast?
Dude, I think you're reading way too much into the Gospel in your effort to conjure up yet another irrational reason to bash Protestants. Give it a rest already. |
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choy
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 12:04:36 AM » |
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No. Verse numbers were added much later.
But isn't that part of the prophecy?  |
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 12:07:19 AM » |
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Well now that you put it that way...  |
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Kerdy
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 02:56:26 AM » |
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No one knows what the mark will be, until it happens.
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"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
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orthonorm
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 03:12:31 AM » |
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I was reading the Gospel of St. John last night and I was on chapter 6--the part where Jesus is discussing the Eucharist. Anyhow, I noticed John 6:66, which says "From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. " and the passage was referring to when people left Him behind because they could not understand the Mystery of the Eucharist. Does the legendary "666" of Revelation refer to this passage in John--to this apostating because you cannot understand the Eucharist? If so, does this mean that Protestants who do not accept the literal presence of the Eucharist and reject the Orthodox Church because of it are bearing the mark of the beast?
Dude, I think you're reading way too much into the Gospel in your effort to conjure up yet another irrational reason to bash Protestants. Give it a rest already. Marks for creativity, but: Stare into the abyss and all that. |
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We cannot legislate morality by passing laws controlling firearms. The only evil we can combat lies within our hearts. We need stronger laws to protect the moral foundation of society against the evil of gay marriage. |
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biro
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 03:26:12 AM » |
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For all we know, James, the verse could be about you.
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phthalyl.podomatic.com
the-cornet.blogspot.com
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OrthoNoob
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2012, 03:32:49 AM » |
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No. Verse numbers were added much later.
This. I hear Da Vinci found a code in there or something, though, James. Might want to check that out. |
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Peter J
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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 10:30:15 AM » |
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I was reading the Gospel of St. John last night and I was on chapter 6--the part where Jesus is discussing the Eucharist. Anyhow, I noticed John 6:66, which says "From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. " and the passage was referring to when people left Him behind because they could not understand the Mystery of the Eucharist. Does the legendary "666" of Revelation refer to this passage in John--to this apostating because you cannot understand the Eucharist? If so, does this mean that Protestants who do not accept the literal presence of the Eucharist and reject the Orthodox Church because of it are bearing the mark of the beast?
Hi James, latecomer here. I agree that John 6:66 is a significant verse about the Eucharist; but do you have any argument for the chapter/verse number referring to the "666" of the beast? BTW, wouldn't it be true to say that Protestants who do not accept the literal presence of the Eucharist reject the CatholicChurch because of it, much more often than rejecting the Orthodox Church because of it? |
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"Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit."
- Barack Obama
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OrthoNoob
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 02:03:05 AM » |
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BTW, wouldn't it be true to say that Protestants who do not accept the literal presence of the Eucharist reject the CatholicChurch because of it, much more often than rejecting the Orthodox Church because of it?
If that's the case, it's most likely only because they don't really know what the Orthodox Church is. And they don't know the difference between the Real Presence and transubstantiation, so if they hear that the Orthodox don't accept transubstantiation, they're likely to think that means the Orthodox share something like their doctrine of the Lord's Supper. |
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PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 02:58:16 AM » |
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BTW, wouldn't it be true to say that Protestants who do not accept the literal presence of the Eucharist reject the CatholicChurch because of it, much more often than rejecting the Orthodox Church because of it?
If that's the case, it's most likely only because they don't really know what the Orthodox Church is. And they don't know the difference between the Real Presence and transubstantiation, so if they hear that the Orthodox don't accept transubstantiation, they're likely to think that means the Orthodox share something like their doctrine of the Lord's Supper. Actually, the Roman doctrine of transubstantiation is really just a more scholastic way of explaining the Real Presence; other than that, the teachings are the same, that the consecrated bread and wine of Communion are in truth the Body and Blood of Christ. According to most of the literature I've read, the Protestant rejection of transubstantiation is at its heart a rejection of the Real Presence, since it's based on the belief that the bread and wine are mere symbols. |
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OrthoNoob
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 03:39:24 AM » |
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BTW, wouldn't it be true to say that Protestants who do not accept the literal presence of the Eucharist reject the CatholicChurch because of it, much more often than rejecting the Orthodox Church because of it?
If that's the case, it's most likely only because they don't really know what the Orthodox Church is. And they don't know the difference between the Real Presence and transubstantiation, so if they hear that the Orthodox don't accept transubstantiation, they're likely to think that means the Orthodox share something like their doctrine of the Lord's Supper. Actually, the Roman doctrine of transubstantiation is really just a more scholastic way of explaining the Real Presence; other than that, the teachings are the same, that the consecrated bread and wine of Communion are in truth the Body and Blood of Christ. According to most of the literature I've read, the Protestant rejection of transubstantiation is at its heart a rejection of the Real Presence, since it's based on the belief that the bread and wine are mere symbols. Er...I don't think you're disagreeing with me. My point is that most Protestants don't understand the distinction between transubstantiation as a scholastic explanation of the Real Presence and the doctrine of the Real Presence simpliciter, and therefore, if they hear that we don't teach the former, they will (wrongly) assume we also reject the latter. |
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Peter J
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 08:07:18 AM » |
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Er...I don't think you're disagreeing with me. True, he doesn't seem to be contradicting you're point; but then I also don't believe that you're contradicting my point. |
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"Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit."
- Barack Obama
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