Author Topic: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)  (Read 513 times)

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Offline DaniiL

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The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« on: December 15, 2012, 10:13:54 AM »
A picture speaks a 1000 words?
Words rendered through images and images rendered through words


Hello,

I'm currently in the process of writing a study about the relation between words and images (specifically, Byzantine holy icons) from the viewpoint of translation and I would also like to annex the results of a short survey.

In order to take up this survey, please use the following link: http://is.gd/pMPJzJ

Before taking up this survey, I would recommend seeing Jonathan Klein's very brief, but thought-provoking TED presentation, entitled "Photos that changed the world" (http://is.gd/8wFH1J).

If you think it's worth it, please also distribute the link to friends.

Thank you!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2012, 10:29:45 AM by DaniiL »

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 11:04:18 PM »
A picture speaks a 1000 words?
Words rendered through images and images rendered through words


Hello,

I'm currently in the process of writing a study about the relation between words and images (specifically, Byzantine holy icons) from the viewpoint of translation and I would also like to annex the results of a short survey.

In order to take up this survey, please use the following link: http://is.gd/pMPJzJ

Before taking up this survey, I would recommend seeing Jonathan Klein's very brief, but thought-provoking TED presentation, entitled "Photos that changed the world" (http://is.gd/8wFH1J).

If you think it's worth it, please also distribute the link to friends.

Thank you!

No offence, I'd be a lot more comfortable if you posted the long form of the links. It's not that I don't trust you, it's just that I don't click on shortened links.

Offline DaniiL

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 04:03:11 PM »
For those suspicious of shortened links, here's the long link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGNDYm5fdmx0NlFzZGt6bzhXYXpKMXc6MQ#gid=0

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 04:50:07 PM »
Quote
Would you equate holy icons to idols?


LOL. How this question is formulated.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 04:50:15 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline DaniiL

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 04:52:55 PM »
Thanks for taking the survey, but why do you find funny the way that question is formulated?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/equate
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 04:53:16 PM by DaniiL »

Offline biro

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 08:30:30 PM »
Thanks for taking the survey, but why do you find funny the way that question is formulated?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/equate

If he did think that, he wouldn't be Orthodox.

Do your own reading and writing. Why should we help you cheat by writing your paper for you?
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Offline DaniiL

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 05:18:34 AM »
Biro, I refrain from making any rude comments with regard to your person, but you should think twice before saying something ("By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned"; "with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again"). The first one to reply to my post hadn't anything better to say then: "Oh, what's with the shortened link? It makes me suspicious". The second ones reply was: "LOL. How this question is formulated." And now you, with your paranoid comment: "Do your own reading and writing. Why should we help you cheat by writing your paper for you?" I see a predisposition for malignance and replies authored by minds possessed by a spirit of contention, and these are signs of non-orthodoxy.
This survey will help me in no way to write my Thesis. It's just an MA requirement, forcing me to annex a survey. I've lost a lot of time and energy in my search of finding respondents and in answering stupid questions, remarks and suggestions.
I repeat, I don't care about the stupid, uninformed and un-orthodox opinions of those that take this survey. It's an MA requirement. A mere useless formality for me. Nonetheless, I tried to use this survey to make people think and study, rather than help myself in any way. That's how I devised the questions: to get people thinking. So by reading the questions of my questionnaire Biro, you'll surely learn something from me about iconography, while I am sure that by reading your answers and comments I will learn nothing edifying from you.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 05:37:34 AM by DaniiL »

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 05:24:46 AM »
Thanks for taking the survey, but why do you find funny the way that question is formulated?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/equate

Because it isn't a neutral way of asking a question, it influences the decision-making.
"Par ma foi! Il y a plus de quarante ans que je dis de la prose sans que j'en susse rien."
-Molière, The Middle-Class Gentleman.

Offline DaniiL

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 05:26:22 AM »
That's exactly my intention: to manipulate, direct, influence, inform, instruct. It's not an impartial, unbiased questionnaire.
The truth is that you cannot be neutral. That's why in my questionnaire I chose to equate value "3" with the stance of "doubtful", rather than "neutral".
"He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad." (Matthew 12:30)
Think of vegetarians. Are they fasting? No. There's a difference between fasting and being vegetarian. So watch out.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 05:34:23 AM by DaniiL »

Offline DaniiL

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 07:02:59 AM »
For those interested, here's a short list of relevant books on iconography:
St. John Damascene - On Holy Images (http://archive.org/details/stjohndamasceneo00alliuoft) also available as a free audio-book here: http://archive.org/details/DamasceneHolyImages
Jaroslav Pelikan - Imago Dei
Glenn Peers - "Subtle Bodies" or "Sacred Shock: Framing Visual Experience in Byzantium" (some of his writings are available for free here: http://utexas.academia.edu/GlennPeers)
Leslie Brubaker - Vision and Meaning in Ninth-Century Byzantium: Image as Exegesis in the Homilies of Gregory of Nazianzus
K. Parry - Depicting the Word: Byzantine Iconophile Thought of the Eighth and Ninth Centuries
Parani - Reconstructing the Reality of Images: Byzantine Material Culture and Religious Iconography (11th - 15th Centuries)
Susan Neville - Iconography: A Writer's Meditation
Solrunn Nes - The Mystical Language Of Icons
and the list goes on; do some googling
I have to add that I haven't actually read any. I'm more in the process of beginning to study for my MA Thesis, rather than actually studying and writing it.

Happy reading!

Offline LBK

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Re: The Word Incarnate: words vs. images (icons)
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 07:43:53 AM »
Quote
Glenn Peers -

I have just wasted fifteen minutes of my life reading his article Icons' Spirited Love. The kindest thing I can say about this turgid drivel is that it is a product of this man's imagination, and is quite alien to what Orthodoxy teaches about icons.

Among the references in his bibliography is a work by Jacques Derrida. You have been warned.  ::)
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