Christmas’ missing icon: Mary breastfeeding Jesus

[Quinault]

Hey, I don't have to breathe! They have machines that do that for me. I don't have to consume food! I can just get hooked up to a feeding machine. You logic is flawed. Simply because one doesn't have to do something, doesn't negate the necessity of the human body to do it.

This isn't from an angle that every woman should breast feed. I don't care what individual women choose to do. But if your argument is that breastfeeding is unnecessary because formula is available, you don't have any comprehension of what you are talking about. It isn't about which is *better*, it is about what is necessary. And lactation is necessary.

[Quinault]

And for the record; my 1 year old IS on formula (he weaned a couple weeks ago). Fortunately I was able to get on a program that pays for said formula. His Celiac disease so damaged his digestive system that he couldn't even process breastmilk for nutrients. So I am by no means anti-formula. He also has to have a thickener added to said formula otherwise he aspirates his milk.

[biro]

Hey, I don't have to breathe! They have machines that do that for me. I don't have to consume food! I can just get hooked up to a feeding machine. You logic is flawed. Simply because one doesn't have to do something, doesn't negate the necessity of the human body to do it.

This isn't from an angle that every woman should breast feed. I don't care what individual women choose to do. But if your argument is that breastfeeding is unnecessary because formula is available, you don't have any comprehension of what you are talking about. It isn't about which is *better*, it is about what is necessary. And lactation is necessary.

How is it flawed? I never said everyone must use formula. Just that my Mom did, and here I am 39 years later, still not dead. I didn't say it was 'better,' either. In fact I went to the trouble of saying if you want to breastfeed, do so. But not everyone who was raised with formula grew up sick or something.

I don't have much enthusiasm for being told I don't have any comprehension of what I'm talking about. I don't think lactation is 'necessary.' I haven't lactated since, oh, ever in my life. Sorry to repeat myself, but here I am, still not dead.

Have a nice time getting worked up over things because I don't agree with you. So I don't think Quinault is all-knowing when it comes to the evil, evil formula. Sorry. Sue me.

[Quinault]

No, you stated that lactation isn't a biological necessity. That simply isn't true. Maybe for *you* it wasn't. But that doesn't mean that all of humanity has no biological need for breastmilk.

[biro]

No, you stated that lactation isn't a biological necessity. That simply isn't true. Maybe for *you* it wasn't. But that doesn't mean that all of humanity has no biological need for breastmilk.

Another thing I never said! What is this, the lightning round in Jeopardy?

I'll take "Stuff Quinault Made Up," for 800.

[Quinault]

Humans are mammals....duh?

Definition of MAMMAL

: any of a class (Mammalia) of warm-blooded higher vertebrates (as placentals, marsupials, or monotremes) that nourish their young with milk secreted by mammary glands, have the skin usually more or less covered with hair, and include humans

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mammal

By definition our ability to produce milk is a huge part of our species.

[Quinault]

is it acceptible for a nudist to go nude into an Amish/Mennonite community?

Nephi, nudism is not a biological necessity. Breastfeeding is. Apples and oranges. 

Human breastfeeding is not a biological necessity. Healthier it may be, but babies raised without being breastfed show that it is not a necessity, otherwise they wouldn't be with us. And while benefit is debateable, nudism is undeniably a natural (and pre-cultural) behavior, just like breastfeeding. In other words, apples and apples.

Do you have posting amnesia?

[Quinault]

Have a nice time getting worked up over things because I don't agree with you. So I don't think Quinault is all-knowing when it comes to the evil, evil formula. Sorry. Sue me.

Again; my 1 year old is on formula I am thankful to God that he is. He weighs 17 lbs now because of that formula. At 1 year of age, 17 lbs is still far less than he should weigh. Unfortunately his Celiac disease has so damaged his digestive system that his milk has to be predigested. Without said formula he wouldn't be 17 lbs. But I wouldn't say my biological need to produce milk is unnecessary because there is a formula my son can consume. I am a mammal, thus I have a biological need to produce milk for my offspring, otherwise my body wouldn't do so. Whether I choose to breast feed or not is another argument. But biologically lactation is a necessary part of being a mammal. Choosing to breast feed is a different argument all together and has nothing to do with biological necessity. Victorian women would just find another woman to breast feed before the advent of formula. So there have been ways to choose not to breast feed even before the creation of formula.

[SolEX01]

is it acceptible for a nudist to go nude into an Amish/Mennonite community?

Nephi, nudism is not a biological necessity. Breastfeeding is. Apples and oranges. 

Human breastfeeding is not a biological necessity. Healthier it may be, but babies raised without being breastfed show that it is not a necessity, otherwise they wouldn't be with us. And while benefit is debateable, nudism is undeniably a natural (and pre-cultural) behavior, just like breastfeeding. In other words, apples and apples.

Do you have posting amnesia?

Nephi isn't biro if that's the quote you're using to accuse biro of posting amnesia.

[Quinault]

Money, whatever else it is, isn't a matter of biology.

I wasn't breast-fed. I turned out fine.

OK, this is still a quote saying that biologically women don't need to breast feed.

I apologize for mistakenly attributing the other quote.

[SolEX01]

Money, whatever else it is, isn't a matter of biology.

I wasn't breast-fed. I turned out fine.

OK, this is still a quote saying that biologically women don't need to breast feed.

I don't see the assertion that women don't need to breast feed.

[ialmisry]

Hey, I don't have to breathe! They have machines that do that for me. I don't have to consume food! I can just get hooked up to a feeding machine. You logic is flawed. Simply because one doesn't have to do something, doesn't negate the necessity of the human body to do it.

This isn't from an angle that every woman should breast feed. I don't care what individual women choose to do. But if your argument is that breastfeeding is unnecessary because formula is available, you don't have any comprehension of what you are talking about. It isn't about which is *better*, it is about what is necessary. And lactation is necessary.

How is it flawed? I never said everyone must use formula. Just that my Mom did, and here I am 39 years later, still not dead. I didn't say it was 'better,' either. In fact I went to the trouble of saying if you want to breastfeed, do so. But not everyone who was raised with formula grew up sick or something.

I don't have much enthusiasm for being told I don't have any comprehension of what I'm talking about. I don't think lactation is 'necessary.' I haven't lactated since, oh, ever in my life. Sorry to repeat myself, but here I am, still not dead.

Have a nice time getting worked up over things because I don't agree with you. So I don't think Quinault is all-knowing when it comes to the evil, evil formula. Sorry. Sue me.

Women who have had no children or who had their first child after age 30 have a slightly higher breast cancer risk. Having many pregnancies and becoming pregnant at a young age reduce breast cancer risk. Pregnancy reduces a woman's total number of lifetime menstrual cycles, which may be the reason for this effect.

Some studies suggest that breastfeeding may slightly lower breast cancer risk, especially if breastfeeding is continued for 1½ to 2 years. But this has been a difficult area to study, especially in countries such as the United States, where breastfeeding for this long is uncommon.

One explanation for this possible effect may be that breastfeeding reduces a woman's total number of lifetime menstrual cycles (similar to starting menstrual periods at a later age or going through early menopause).

http://www.cancer.org/cancer/breastcancer/detailedguide/breast-cancer-risk-factors

Childbearing and menstruation: Women who have never given birth have a greater risk of developing ovarian cancer than women who have had children

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=47050

[Quinault]

I stated that in our case we couldn't afford formula ourselves since it would be $1800-3000 a month. This was her reply. This response in context IMO says that money, or whatever else it is breast feeding isn't a matter of biology because she wasn't breast fed and she is "fine."

[Quinault]

And I am not arguing that women need to breast feed. I argue that women biologically have to lactate. The argument that breast feeding is akin to nudism is incorrect. We have a biological need to lactate, we do not have a biological need to be nude. Arguing that formula negates the biological need to lactate makes zero sense.

[Kerdy]

Why...why, why in the world would someone resurrect this thread?  Some people find it offensive or distasteful.  Show a little respect and stop making excuses.  Be discreet.  This is the ONLY problem most people have with breast feeding.  If some can't figure this out, they have more issues than whether or not they should nurse an infant.

[Quinault]

Did you read the blog post? It was interesting that human women had to teach a gorilla to breast feed, because she had never seen it, don't you think?

[Quinault]

And if you think I am espousing breast feeding indiscreetly then you haven't read what I have written in this thread. I just found the article interesting. It was a perspective I had never considered before. I personally only saw breast feeding maybe a half dozen times before I did it myself. To think that my brain was learning how to do it via those few times is quite interesting. Since I was the youngest, I never saw my mother do it. I saw a couple women at the ECE center I worked at do it, and I saw a couple family friends do it. But that was the limit of my experience.

Additionally, anyone that thinks it is easy to do has no clue. I recently found out how incredibly complicated just the act of swallowing fluids is. It is a complicated process we take for granted because we think it is automatic. For some people (my son Taz being one of them) coordinating swallowing and breathing is not that easy. Breast feeding is hard, many women feel like failures because they can't. But if part of the problem is that they need to see it to do it, and they have never seen it- that would explain a lot of their difficulties.

[Michał Kalina]

Why...why, why in the world would someone resurrect this thread?  Some people find it offensive or distasteful.  

Some people wear their underwear on their pants. Luckily, we don't need to adjust to them.

[ialmisry]

I stated that in our case we couldn't afford formula ourselves since it would be $1800-3000 a month. This was his reply. His response in context IMO says that money, or whatever else it is breast feeding isn't a matter of biology because he wasn't breast fed and he is "fine."

biro is a "she"

but otherwise correct.

[Quinault]

Yes, I corrected it to "she." I apologize for calling you a "he" biro.

[biro]

Money, whatever else it is, isn't a matter of biology.

I wasn't breast-fed. I turned out fine.

OK, this is still a quote saying that biologically women don't need to breast feed.

I don't see the assertion that women don't need to breast feed.

Because it wasn't there.

[Quinault]

So what did you mean then when you said it isn't a matter of biology?

[Eastern Mind]

lol it's back.

[Quinault]

Why...why, why in the world would someone resurrect this thread?  Some people find it offensive or distasteful. Show a little respect and stop making excuses.  Be discreet.  This is the ONLY problem most people have with breast feeding.  If some can't figure this out, they have more issues than whether or not they should nurse an infant.

If you find the topic offensive and distasteful; don't click on the thread to read it. I don't click on threads I know will be offensive to me. If it offends you to look at porn, you don't go watching the playboy channel. Threads on internet forums work the same way. If you know the topic is offensive to you, don't read the topic.

[Kerdy]

Why...why, why in the world would someone resurrect this thread?  Some people find it offensive or distasteful. Show a little respect and stop making excuses.  Be discreet.  This is the ONLY problem most people have with breast feeding.  If some can't figure this out, they have more issues than whether or not they should nurse an infant.

If you find the topic offensive and distasteful; don't click on the thread to read it. I don't click on threads I know will be offensive to me. If it offends you to look at porn, you don't go watching the playboy channel. Threads on internet forums work the same way. If you know the topic is offensive to you, don't read the topic.

Or not.  Either way.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

Forgiveness Sunday is in three days. Let's take a recess until after Bright Week. In case I forget, please PM me if you really want this topic reopened. Thanks, Carl

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

This topic is unlocked as promised. Carl Kraeff

[ialmisry]

Christ is risen!

This thread reminded me of this Luvs commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgmbJso-2-o
WARNING top of breast showing briefly above child's head.

[Quinault]

Apparently the Victorians weren't as conservative about breastfeeding as people like to think they were. They didn't cover up AT ALL when they breastfed. In fact, photographing breastfeeding mothers was common:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2340465/Bizarre-pictures-reveal-unlikely-trend-photographs-breastfeeding-mothers-Victorian-era-America.html

[Agabus]

Apparently the Victorians weren't as conservative about breastfeeding as people like to think they were. They didn't cover up AT ALL when they breastfed. In fact, photographing breastfeeding mothers was common:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2340465/Bizarre-pictures-reveal-unlikely-trend-photographs-breastfeeding-mothers-Victorian-era-America.html

I read a very similar article with some of the same photos the other day and thought of this thread.

[Michał Kalina]

People were more sane back then.

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