Author Topic: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?  (Read 3407 times)

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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« on: December 22, 2010, 12:20:03 AM »
so, everyone is telling me to pick a college.  I want to go to college, but I didn't want to have to settle for my local community college (beyond 2 years of my core classes) because I can't make up my mind.  I also have had a problem with picking because no one offers the major I'd like. I love to read about Orthodox Christianity, and would LOVE to major in theology, but there is no college that offers it. 

after lots of prayer, I found a college called St. Katherine's. 
I found this page:  http://www.stkath.org/academics/degree-requirements/theology/

is this for real?  it's an answer to my prayers! 

has anyone heard of this or have any impressions?
"At the Last Judgment I will not be asked whether I satisfactorily practiced asceticism, nor how many bows I have made before the divine altar. I will be asked whether I fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick, and the prisoner in his jail. That is all I will be asked." - Sv. Maria Skobotsova

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2010, 12:36:07 AM »
St Katherine's is a new college (IIRC it will offer it's first classes starting next year).  Due to their being new they aren't going to have much going for them in the way of accreditation for a few years yet, but if you're going for a theology degree that shouldn't be too worrying. 

All in all it doesn't look like a bad start for an Orthodox college, but it will take time to tell for sure.  I do have to wonder, however, at an Orthodox college that apparently only has two Greek classes (Intro to Greek and New Testament Greek) and no Russian/Slavic language classes.
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Offline GiC

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 01:01:28 AM »
so, everyone is telling me to pick a college.  I want to go to college, but I didn't want to have to settle for my local community college (beyond 2 years of my core classes) because I can't make up my mind.  I also have had a problem with picking because no one offers the major I'd like. I love to read about Orthodox Christianity, and would LOVE to major in theology, but there is no college that offers it.  

after lots of prayer, I found a college called St. Katherine's.  
I found this page:  http://www.stkath.org/academics/degree-requirements/theology/

is this for real?  it's an answer to my prayers!  

has anyone heard of this or have any impressions?

No, it's not for real, from their page on Accreditation:

'St Katherine College has initiated the WASC accreditation process. The full accreditation process normally requires four to five years. We plan to achieve accreditation Candidacy within two years; such recognition will permit our students to participate in Title IV federal student loan programs. The College will provide scholarships and other financial aid on a need-basis to replace Title IV funding until Candidacy is achieved. We plan to be fully accredited by the time our first class, the class of 2015, graduates.'

The reality is that most American accreditation bodies won't accredit undergraduate Theology programs, only graduate ones. The closest you're going to get is Religious Studies (which was all Holy Cross offered to undergrads). If you really want to study theology, I'd look for colleges in England, but don't expect too much in the way of financial aid...private loans is about the best you can hope for and tuition is going up there.

With that said, be sure you really want to study theology. There aren't a lot of career options with studying theology. If you want to get ordained, Holy Cross offers a 7 year program with a B.A. in Religious Studies and an M.Div. It's expensive but at least people go there with an end in mind. If you're not looking to get ordained, there's not a lot you can do with a theology degree, to do anything you need a doctorate and theology positions at Orthodox and Catholic universities are VERY hard to come by, even for those with multiple doctorates. If I were you I'd reconsider getting an undergraduate degree in Religious Studies/Theology. Get a bachelors degree in engineering or the sciences, that way you have career options. If, after you get that degree, you decide you still want to study theology, then go to graduate school for it. I had an undergrad in Mathematics and went to Holy Cross to get my Masters of Theological Studies. That way if your theology career (read: Ordination) doesn't work out, you have something to fall back on. And even if it does, you have a unique perspective that many in your field will lack, giving you an advantage in many situations. If you ask many of the priests on this forum, you will even find that this is the path they followed as well.

The important thing is to keep your options open, learn as much as you can, there will be plenty of time for specializing later.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 01:02:16 AM by GiC »

Offline lubeltri

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 01:09:47 AM »
There is a fine college also in southern California, fully accredited, at which you can get an excellent liberal education. No theology major, or any major at all, actually. Instead, a broad education in the arts and sciences.

It's called Thomas Aquinas College.

What do you think of this curriculum, GiC?

http://www.thomasaquinas.edu/curriculum/

Offline Orest

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 01:34:19 AM »
so, everyone is telling me to pick a college.  I want to go to college, but I didn't want to have to settle for my local community college (beyond 2 years of my core classes) because I can't make up my mind.  I also have had a problem with picking because no one offers the major I'd like. I love to read about Orthodox Christianity, and would LOVE to major in theology, but there is no college that offers it. 

after lots of prayer, I found a college called St. Katherine's. 
I found this page:  http://www.stkath.org/academics/degree-requirements/theology/

is this for real?  it's an answer to my prayers! 

has anyone heard of this or have any impressions?
It is important to go to an accredited academic institution.  Why not Hellenic College in Brookline, MA outside of or a subburb of Boston?  It shares its campus with Holy Cross, the seminary of the Greek orthodox Church?  You could go to services every day.  Live in a residence with other people your age who are all Orthodox Christians.  What more could you ask for?

Offline GiC

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 01:47:07 AM »
There is a fine college also in southern California, fully accredited, at which you can get an excellent liberal education. No theology major, or any major at all, actually. Instead, a broad education in the arts and sciences.

It's called Thomas Aquinas College.

What do you think of this curriculum, GiC?

http://www.thomasaquinas.edu/curriculum/

Better, actually not bad for a liberal arts degree. I'd, of course, prefer a more complete treatment of 19th century mathematics and 20th century physics/biology, but, after all, it is a liberal arts degree that they're offering. However, if the course work holds up to the standard of the curriculum, it does look substantially better than most liberal arts programs and teaching based on historical texts is certainly an interesting approach...they are texts that everyone, regardless of the degree (or lack of a degree) they hold should at least be familiar with. Being an expert in each of those texts would certainly warrant a degree.

Considering the nature of the degree (liberal arts), however, my one criticism is in languages. Unless the higher level classes about texts originally written in Latin are taught with the Latin texts, they should require more instruction in the language (however, if they do only study the Latin text and not English translations, I will admit that the program exceeds any expectations as far as the Latin language is concerned). Also, I see no instruction in Greek, which should be a staple, that seems to be the biggest omission in the program...don't get me wrong, I never enjoyed Greek, I always viewed it as a necessary evil, whereas I loved Latin, it is by far my favorite language...but still, it's a pretty essential part of any traditionally oriented education.

However, despite my criticism of language instruction, it's a program that appears substantially superior to most liberal arts educations. Of course, my recommendation to study engineering or the sciences in undergrad still stands. ;)

Offline GiC

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 01:56:05 AM »
so, everyone is telling me to pick a college.  I want to go to college, but I didn't want to have to settle for my local community college (beyond 2 years of my core classes) because I can't make up my mind.  I also have had a problem with picking because no one offers the major I'd like. I love to read about Orthodox Christianity, and would LOVE to major in theology, but there is no college that offers it.  

after lots of prayer, I found a college called St. Katherine's.  
I found this page:  http://www.stkath.org/academics/degree-requirements/theology/

is this for real?  it's an answer to my prayers!  

has anyone heard of this or have any impressions?
It is important to go to an accredited academic institution.  Why not Hellenic College in Brookline, MA outside of or a subburb of Boston?  It shares its campus with Holy Cross, the seminary of the Greek orthodox Church?  You could go to services every day.  Live in a residence with other people your age who are all Orthodox Christians.  What more could you ask for?

It's not quite as ideal of an institution as you make it out to be and I say that as an alumnus. It has its faults, low academic standards being paramount among them and it's not quite the spiritual haven you make it out to be, but what one will eventually learn is that no college is...colleges are not monasteries. With that said, there are some really great people there and I quite enjoyed the three years I spent there, if someone is looking to study Orthodox theology in the United States, I wouldn't recommend any other college. While I think it's a better college for graduate school than undergraduate, as an established and accredited institution officially affiliated with the archdioceses, it would be an infinitely better choice than the St. Kathrine's presented in the original post.

If one wants to study Orthodox theology as an undergrad, that is where they should go. Also, while the religious studies program is not called 'theology' for accreditation purposes, make no mistake, it's an undergraduate degree in Orthodox theology.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 01:56:50 AM by GiC »

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 02:13:21 AM »
so, everyone is telling me to pick a college.  I want to go to college, but I didn't want to have to settle for my local community college (beyond 2 years of my core classes) because I can't make up my mind.  I also have had a problem with picking because no one offers the major I'd like. I love to read about Orthodox Christianity, and would LOVE to major in theology, but there is no college that offers it. 

after lots of prayer, I found a college called St. Katherine's. 
I found this page:  http://www.stkath.org/academics/degree-requirements/theology/

is this for real?  it's an answer to my prayers! 

has anyone heard of this or have any impressions?
It is important to go to an accredited academic institution.  Why not Hellenic College in Brookline, MA outside of or a subburb of Boston?  It shares its campus with Holy Cross, the seminary of the Greek orthodox Church?  You could go to services every day.  Live in a residence with other people your age who are all Orthodox Christians.  What more could you ask for?
I'm reading a out Hellenic college now.  it really seems like a bona-fide college.  I'd love to learn more about my faith as I go through college like they describe on the site! 

thanks, GiC, for informing me about St. Katherine.  I'm going to look into Hellenic college.  good thing I have a few years to descide this!
"At the Last Judgment I will not be asked whether I satisfactorily practiced asceticism, nor how many bows I have made before the divine altar. I will be asked whether I fed the hungry, clothed the naked, visited the sick, and the prisoner in his jail. That is all I will be asked." - Sv. Maria Skobotsova

Offline GiC

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 02:29:19 AM »
so, everyone is telling me to pick a college.  I want to go to college, but I didn't want to have to settle for my local community college (beyond 2 years of my core classes) because I can't make up my mind.  I also have had a problem with picking because no one offers the major I'd like. I love to read about Orthodox Christianity, and would LOVE to major in theology, but there is no college that offers it. 

after lots of prayer, I found a college called St. Katherine's. 
I found this page:  http://www.stkath.org/academics/degree-requirements/theology/

is this for real?  it's an answer to my prayers! 

has anyone heard of this or have any impressions?
It is important to go to an accredited academic institution.  Why not Hellenic College in Brookline, MA outside of or a subburb of Boston?  It shares its campus with Holy Cross, the seminary of the Greek orthodox Church?  You could go to services every day.  Live in a residence with other people your age who are all Orthodox Christians.  What more could you ask for?
I'm reading a out Hellenic college now.  it really seems like a bona-fide college.  I'd love to learn more about my faith as I go through college like they describe on the site! 

thanks, GiC, for informing me about St. Katherine.  I'm going to look into Hellenic college.  good thing I have a few years to descide this!

You have time, you'll figure it out. ;) If your heart is set on studying Orthodox theology and staying in the US, Hellenic College would probably be your best bet. If you're a little more adventurous and willing to go the extra mile, look into Oxford, they will accommodate a study of Orthodox theology within their curriculum...but going to college overseas is not an easy task, make sure you're up to it.

Offline jnorm888

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 05:06:20 AM »
There is a fine college also in southern California, fully accredited, at which you can get an excellent liberal education. No theology major, or any major at all, actually. Instead, a broad education in the arts and sciences.

It's called Thomas Aquinas College.

What do you think of this curriculum, GiC?

http://www.thomasaquinas.edu/curriculum/

Better, actually not bad for a liberal arts degree. I'd, of course, prefer a more complete treatment of 19th century mathematics and 20th century physics/biology, but, after all, it is a liberal arts degree that they're offering. However, if the course work holds up to the standard of the curriculum, it does look substantially better than most liberal arts programs and teaching based on historical texts is certainly an interesting approach...they are texts that everyone, regardless of the degree (or lack of a degree) they hold should at least be familiar with. Being an expert in each of those texts would certainly warrant a degree.

Considering the nature of the degree (liberal arts), however, my one criticism is in languages. Unless the higher level classes about texts originally written in Latin are taught with the Latin texts, they should require more instruction in the language (however, if they do only study the Latin text and not English translations, I will admit that the program exceeds any expectations as far as the Latin language is concerned). Also, I see no instruction in Greek, which should be a staple, that seems to be the biggest omission in the program...don't get me wrong, I never enjoyed Greek, I always viewed it as a necessary evil, whereas I loved Latin, it is by far my favorite language...but still, it's a pretty essential part of any traditionally oriented education.

However, despite my criticism of language instruction, it's a program that appears substantially superior to most liberal arts educations. Of course, my recommendation to study engineering or the sciences in undergrad still stands. ;)

If he doesn't love Engineering(mostly Math and Physics) then it would be a bad idea. I was reading theology books and history books in my Engineering classes, and I had friends who read the Bible......like in our Engineering Mathematics class. And I only studied at the last minute. He should go for what he truly loves to do. Until then there is nothing wrong in going to a 6 months to a  two year technical school.

Truck Drivers and those X-ray people at hospitals both make decent money. He could do that for a few years until he knows what he really wants to do in life.......that way he won't have to worry about taking out alot of loans. He could pay most if not all of it himself in cash.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 05:15:42 AM by jnorm888 »
"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/

Offline jnorm888

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 05:22:54 AM »
so, everyone is telling me to pick a college.  I want to go to college, but I didn't want to have to settle for my local community college (beyond 2 years of my core classes) because I can't make up my mind.  I also have had a problem with picking because no one offers the major I'd like. I love to read about Orthodox Christianity, and would LOVE to major in theology, but there is no college that offers it.  

after lots of prayer, I found a college called St. Katherine's.  
I found this page:  http://www.stkath.org/academics/degree-requirements/theology/

is this for real?  it's an answer to my prayers!  

has anyone heard of this or have any impressions?
It is important to go to an accredited academic institution.  Why not Hellenic College in Brookline, MA outside of or a subburb of Boston?  It shares its campus with Holy Cross, the seminary of the Greek orthodox Church?  You could go to services every day.  Live in a residence with other people your age who are all Orthodox Christians.  What more could you ask for?
I'm reading a out Hellenic college now.  it really seems like a bona-fide college.  I'd love to learn more about my faith as I go through college like they describe on the site!  

thanks, GiC, for informing me about St. Katherine.  I'm going to look into Hellenic college.  good thing I have a few years to descide this!

Don't worry about the Money factor, if it's something you love to do then you and the Lord will make it work. Don't waste your time with something you don't want to do......you will find yourself frustrated and bored. My parents wanted me to be an Engineer, but I never wanted to be one. I had little motivation in that area. I always wanted to go to school for history or theology. So, go to school for what you really want to do.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 05:24:58 AM by jnorm888 »
"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/

Offline GiC

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 05:29:05 AM »
There is a fine college also in southern California, fully accredited, at which you can get an excellent liberal education. No theology major, or any major at all, actually. Instead, a broad education in the arts and sciences.

It's called Thomas Aquinas College.

What do you think of this curriculum, GiC?

http://www.thomasaquinas.edu/curriculum/

Better, actually not bad for a liberal arts degree. I'd, of course, prefer a more complete treatment of 19th century mathematics and 20th century physics/biology, but, after all, it is a liberal arts degree that they're offering. However, if the course work holds up to the standard of the curriculum, it does look substantially better than most liberal arts programs and teaching based on historical texts is certainly an interesting approach...they are texts that everyone, regardless of the degree (or lack of a degree) they hold should at least be familiar with. Being an expert in each of those texts would certainly warrant a degree.

Considering the nature of the degree (liberal arts), however, my one criticism is in languages. Unless the higher level classes about texts originally written in Latin are taught with the Latin texts, they should require more instruction in the language (however, if they do only study the Latin text and not English translations, I will admit that the program exceeds any expectations as far as the Latin language is concerned). Also, I see no instruction in Greek, which should be a staple, that seems to be the biggest omission in the program...don't get me wrong, I never enjoyed Greek, I always viewed it as a necessary evil, whereas I loved Latin, it is by far my favorite language...but still, it's a pretty essential part of any traditionally oriented education.

However, despite my criticism of language instruction, it's a program that appears substantially superior to most liberal arts educations. Of course, my recommendation to study engineering or the sciences in undergrad still stands. ;)

If he doesn't love Engineering(mostly Math and Physics) then it would be a bad idea. I was reading theology books and history books in my Engineering classes, and I had friends who read the Bible......like in our Engineering Mathematics class. And I only studied at the last minute. He should go for what he truly loves to do. Until then there is nothing wrong in going to a 6 months to a  two year technical school.

Truck Drivers and those X-ray people at hospitals both make decent money. He could do that for a few years until he knows what he really wants to do in life.......that way he won't have to worry about taking out alot of loans. He could pay most if not all of it himself in cash.

It's great to be able to do what you love, but it's prudent to plan for the future. Some people are fortunate enough to do both, others have to choose. All I suggest is not to ignore practical issues, I would not be nearly as well off as I am had I not gotten my undergraduate degree in mathematics...and I'd probably be better off if I had gone to graduate school in mathematics instead of theology. If one has a goal in mind, like ordination, then by all means, get your M.Div., but if one simply wishes to learn more about theology you might want to rethink pursuing your college degree in it.

College is a big investment, the utility of your degree/education should not be ignored; but, it's ultimately up to him what he decides to do, how much weight he gives each consideration, I'm simply suggesting he keep this consideration in mind.

Offline jnorm888

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 05:37:16 AM »
There is a fine college also in southern California, fully accredited, at which you can get an excellent liberal education. No theology major, or any major at all, actually. Instead, a broad education in the arts and sciences.

It's called Thomas Aquinas College.

What do you think of this curriculum, GiC?

http://www.thomasaquinas.edu/curriculum/

Better, actually not bad for a liberal arts degree. I'd, of course, prefer a more complete treatment of 19th century mathematics and 20th century physics/biology, but, after all, it is a liberal arts degree that they're offering. However, if the course work holds up to the standard of the curriculum, it does look substantially better than most liberal arts programs and teaching based on historical texts is certainly an interesting approach...they are texts that everyone, regardless of the degree (or lack of a degree) they hold should at least be familiar with. Being an expert in each of those texts would certainly warrant a degree.

Considering the nature of the degree (liberal arts), however, my one criticism is in languages. Unless the higher level classes about texts originally written in Latin are taught with the Latin texts, they should require more instruction in the language (however, if they do only study the Latin text and not English translations, I will admit that the program exceeds any expectations as far as the Latin language is concerned). Also, I see no instruction in Greek, which should be a staple, that seems to be the biggest omission in the program...don't get me wrong, I never enjoyed Greek, I always viewed it as a necessary evil, whereas I loved Latin, it is by far my favorite language...but still, it's a pretty essential part of any traditionally oriented education.

However, despite my criticism of language instruction, it's a program that appears substantially superior to most liberal arts educations. Of course, my recommendation to study engineering or the sciences in undergrad still stands. ;)

If he doesn't love Engineering(mostly Math and Physics) then it would be a bad idea. I was reading theology books and history books in my Engineering classes, and I had friends who read the Bible......like in our Engineering Mathematics class. And I only studied at the last minute. He should go for what he truly loves to do. Until then there is nothing wrong in going to a 6 months to a  two year technical school.

Truck Drivers and those X-ray people at hospitals both make decent money. He could do that for a few years until he knows what he really wants to do in life.......that way he won't have to worry about taking out alot of loans. He could pay most if not all of it himself in cash.

It's great to be able to do what you love, but it's prudent to plan for the future. Some people are fortunate enough to do both, others have to choose. All I suggest is not to ignore practical issues, I would not be nearly as well off as I am had I not gotten my undergraduate degree in mathematics...and I'd probably be better off if I had gone to graduate school in mathematics instead of theology. If one has a goal in mind, like ordination, then by all means, get your M.Div., but if one simply wishes to learn more about theology you might want to rethink pursuing your college degree in it.

College is a big investment, the utility of your degree/education should not be ignored; but, it's ultimately up to him what he decides to do, how much weight he gives each consideration, I'm simply suggesting he keep this consideration in mind.

If he wants to be an Engineer then he can't go in it half halfheartedly. He will have to give it his full time and attention....practically his life. That's hard to do when you really wanna do something else. But yes, you are right, it is a big investment and one does need to worry about the practical issues.
"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/

Offline Shiny

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 05:37:56 AM »
Hmm I don't necessarily like the idea of Orthodoxy trying to "fit in" with Western institutionalism.
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Offline jnorm888

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 05:41:33 AM »
Hmm I don't necessarily like the idea of Orthodoxy trying to "fit in" with Western institutionalism.

What do you mean by that? Do you mean it should be more Monastic based? If so then yes I would agree. Right now only Saint Tikhon and Jordanville have that ethos. But they are seminaries. What would a monastic based Engineering program look like?

I would love for something like that to happen, but what would a full scale Monastic based Orthodox University look like? How could one permeate Panentheism as the basic philosophy in doing science? What would that look like? And how could such a thing be accredited.......especially in this country in where Philosophical naturalism and atheism are pretty much the default positions. The accreditation boards would have to be replaced with different people or they would have to change their philosophy or maybe another alternative accreditation board will have to be developed by the State/states that would allow something like that to happen.

I don't know, but what would it look like and how could such a thing exist in this country?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 05:56:33 AM by jnorm888 »
"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/

Offline GiC

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2010, 05:51:14 AM »
There is a fine college also in southern California, fully accredited, at which you can get an excellent liberal education. No theology major, or any major at all, actually. Instead, a broad education in the arts and sciences.

It's called Thomas Aquinas College.

What do you think of this curriculum, GiC?

http://www.thomasaquinas.edu/curriculum/

Better, actually not bad for a liberal arts degree. I'd, of course, prefer a more complete treatment of 19th century mathematics and 20th century physics/biology, but, after all, it is a liberal arts degree that they're offering. However, if the course work holds up to the standard of the curriculum, it does look substantially better than most liberal arts programs and teaching based on historical texts is certainly an interesting approach...they are texts that everyone, regardless of the degree (or lack of a degree) they hold should at least be familiar with. Being an expert in each of those texts would certainly warrant a degree.

Considering the nature of the degree (liberal arts), however, my one criticism is in languages. Unless the higher level classes about texts originally written in Latin are taught with the Latin texts, they should require more instruction in the language (however, if they do only study the Latin text and not English translations, I will admit that the program exceeds any expectations as far as the Latin language is concerned). Also, I see no instruction in Greek, which should be a staple, that seems to be the biggest omission in the program...don't get me wrong, I never enjoyed Greek, I always viewed it as a necessary evil, whereas I loved Latin, it is by far my favorite language...but still, it's a pretty essential part of any traditionally oriented education.

However, despite my criticism of language instruction, it's a program that appears substantially superior to most liberal arts educations. Of course, my recommendation to study engineering or the sciences in undergrad still stands. ;)

If he doesn't love Engineering(mostly Math and Physics) then it would be a bad idea. I was reading theology books and history books in my Engineering classes, and I had friends who read the Bible......like in our Engineering Mathematics class. And I only studied at the last minute. He should go for what he truly loves to do. Until then there is nothing wrong in going to a 6 months to a  two year technical school.

Truck Drivers and those X-ray people at hospitals both make decent money. He could do that for a few years until he knows what he really wants to do in life.......that way he won't have to worry about taking out alot of loans. He could pay most if not all of it himself in cash.

It's great to be able to do what you love, but it's prudent to plan for the future. Some people are fortunate enough to do both, others have to choose. All I suggest is not to ignore practical issues, I would not be nearly as well off as I am had I not gotten my undergraduate degree in mathematics...and I'd probably be better off if I had gone to graduate school in mathematics instead of theology. If one has a goal in mind, like ordination, then by all means, get your M.Div., but if one simply wishes to learn more about theology you might want to rethink pursuing your college degree in it.

College is a big investment, the utility of your degree/education should not be ignored; but, it's ultimately up to him what he decides to do, how much weight he gives each consideration, I'm simply suggesting he keep this consideration in mind.

If he wants to be an Engineer then he can't go in it half halfheartedly. He will have to give it his full time and attention....practically his life. That's hard to do when you really wanna do something else. But yes, you are right, it is a big investment and one does need to worry about the practical issues.

And keep in mind, I'm not just suggesting Engineering...science and engineering (which range anywhere from physics to metallurgical engineering to economics) are usually pretty sound degrees that will open up many fields to you. But there's always things like Business and related fields which are usable (at least in a normal economy)...and leave you with lots of free time/electives to pursue your other interests. You should find a field you at least enjoy somewhat, but it doesn't have to be your passion, it doesn't have to be your reason for getting up in the morning...just something you don't hate. As I said, there are lots of factors in choosing a field and they should be considered carefully...make a plan for an end game. But he has time and I'm sure he'll figure out what's best for him.

Of course, there's always mathematics, it lets you roll science, engineering, philosophy, and theology all into one degree. ;)

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2010, 03:28:55 PM »
thanks, all, for the interesting answers.  I really love theology, and would love to study it.  But, I'm not surw what I could do with a degree in it.  I just want to go study it, but I should minor in something that I can make a career out of.
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Offline Eugenio

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2010, 12:55:13 AM »
Trevor, according to your profile, you are from Colorado, correct?

If so, and assuming that you are planning to go to school in-state, then I would recommend you pick a college or university with a local OCF (Orthodox Christian Fellowship) chapter. OCF is the officially-recognized college outreach for Orthodox Christians.

From surfing around the OCF website, it appears there are two universities in Colorado with OCF chapters: The University of Denver and Colorado State University.

http://www.ocf.net/groups/default.aspx?GroupID=24

At any rate, contact the OCF and see if there's a chapter at whatever school you decide. That's my suggestion.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2016, 12:42:50 PM »
I googled this place five or so years ago and didn't find much, except the usual red flags with a barely-accredited university.

Came across someone who graduated from it today, so I googled it again.

Even more red flags, but this was the most glaring one:

Students are required to abide by our Community Covenant.

Note the cringe Evangelical word choice. I suspect it's something similar to the reformation-discipline policies in place at many protestant schools and universities.

This Community Covenant is not available online, anywhere. There is almost no mention of it. I wonder if they'd send it to a "prospective student"?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 12:46:23 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2016, 12:50:42 PM »
I googled this place five or so years ago and didn't find much, except the usual red flags with a barely-accredited university.

Came across someone who graduated from it today, so I googled it again.

Even more red flags, but this was the most glaring one:

Students are required to abide by our Community Covenant.

Note the cringe Evangelical word choice. I suspect it's something similar to the reformation-discipline policies in place at many protestant schools and universities.

This Community Covenant is not available online, anywhere. There is almost no mention of it. I wonder if they'd send it to a "prospective student"?


It's on page 7 of the Student Handbook....http://media.wix.com/ugd/a54c82_8865fc4d3695415d9dbab741ea4e2366.pdf


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Offline William T

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2016, 01:01:52 PM »
Nick,

A) do you know any way to systematically look at or research sham religious / sectarian schools and how  they operate?

B) Do you think a religion like Orthodoxy is going to have enough built in checks to keep crank education from getting too out of control for too long, if it's done under it's name?

« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 01:03:33 PM by William T »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2016, 01:12:12 PM »
Nick,

A) do you know any way to systematically look at or research sham religious / sectarian schools and how  they operate?

B) Do you think a religion like Orthodoxy is going to have enough built in checks to keep crank education from getting too out of control for too long, if it's done under it's name?

Quote
CHRIST CENTERED LIFE

...

The College is an independent institution of higher education formed in the Orthodox Christian tradition. There are approximately 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide committed to the undivided Christian faith as revealed in Holy Scripture, the Nicene Creed, and the historic texts and Ecumenical Councils of the Christian Tradition. The College has received the blessings and encouragement of the western Orthodox Christian hierarchs who act as advisors. The President serves on the Theological Education Committee of the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of North and Central America.

ADMINISTRATION

...

Hierarchical Advisors: +Metropolitan Joseph, +Archbishop Benjamin, +Metropolitan Gerasimos, +Bishop Maxim

http://www.stkath.org/#!about/c1tsv

Headed by a committee member affiliated with the Assembly of (EO) Bishops and endorsed and advised by the EO bishops in whose overlapping jurisdictions the school is located.  Sure sounds like a sham religious school providing crank education. 

If this is how it is with one private school, imagine what all those parishes are like.
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Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2016, 01:17:31 PM »

It's on page 7 of the Student Handbook....http://media.wix.com/ugd/a54c82_8865fc4d3695415d9dbab741ea4e2366.pdf
Are you sure that's it? It looks more like a vague summary.

Either way good sleuthing, Denise.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 01:24:30 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2016, 01:19:44 PM »
A) do you know any way to systematically look at or research sham religious / sectarian schools and how  they operate?
No, but if it is a sham, a little digging around and inquiring with alumni and admissions advisors, plus a look into funding, should quickly reveal the fact.

B) Do you think a religion like Orthodoxy is going to have enough built in checks to keep crank education from getting too out of control for too long, if it's done under it's name?
I don't know how you judge too long. I think it would take a long time for the mechanisms in place to deal with such a thing. Look at how long St. Innocent's Academy was allowed to operate.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2016, 01:22:58 PM »
Headed by a committee member affiliated with the Assembly of (EO) Bishops and endorsed and advised by the EO bishops in whose overlapping jurisdictions the school is located.  Sure sounds like a sham religious school providing crank education. 

If this is how it is with one private school, imagine what all those parishes are like.

As the aphorism goes, one man's modus ponens is another man's modus tollens.

In any case, neither I nor William made the sham judgment.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 01:25:56 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2016, 01:25:22 PM »
I will also say this....I do not know graduates...but the former Priest of my parish (I did not yet attend there) was down there for a while on the faculty.

I do not believe he would be involved in a sham.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2016, 02:39:33 PM »
Headed by a committee member affiliated with the Assembly of (EO) Bishops and endorsed and advised by the EO bishops in whose overlapping jurisdictions the school is located.  Sure sounds like a sham religious school providing crank education. 

If this is how it is with one private school, imagine what all those parishes are like.

As the aphorism goes, one man's modus ponens is another man's modus tollens.

In any case, neither I nor William made the sham judgment.

They weren't my words. 
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2016, 07:20:06 PM »
I googled this place five or so years ago and didn't find much, except the usual red flags with a barely-accredited university.

Came across someone who graduated from it today, so I googled it again.

Even more red flags, but this was the most glaring one:

Students are required to abide by our Community Covenant.

Note the cringe Evangelical word choice. I suspect it's something similar to the reformation-discipline policies in place at many protestant schools and universities.

This Community Covenant is not available online, anywhere. There is almost no mention of it. I wonder if they'd send it to a "prospective student"?
5 or so years ago, St Katherine's was just starting out. New colleges and universities have to actually churn out some graduates for a few years before they can be fully accredited. As I recall, St Katherine's at the time was pretty honest about this situation, though it did require some digging (as in, it wasn't placed in bold letters on their home page).
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Offline William T

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2016, 01:08:37 PM »
Nick,

A) do you know any way to systematically look at or research sham religious / sectarian schools and how  they operate?

B) Do you think a religion like Orthodoxy is going to have enough built in checks to keep crank education from getting too out of control for too long, if it's done under it's name?

Quote
CHRIST CENTERED LIFE

...

The College is an independent institution of higher education formed in the Orthodox Christian tradition. There are approximately 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide committed to the undivided Christian faith as revealed in Holy Scripture, the Nicene Creed, and the historic texts and Ecumenical Councils of the Christian Tradition. The College has received the blessings and encouragement of the western Orthodox Christian hierarchs who act as advisors. The President serves on the Theological Education Committee of the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of North and Central America.

ADMINISTRATION

...

Hierarchical Advisors: +Metropolitan Joseph, +Archbishop Benjamin, +Metropolitan Gerasimos, +Bishop Maxim

http://www.stkath.org/#!about/c1tsv

Headed by a committee member affiliated with the Assembly of (EO) Bishops and endorsed and advised by the EO bishops in whose overlapping jurisdictions the school is located.  Sure sounds like a sham religious school providing crank education. 

If this is how it is with one private school, imagine what all those parishes are like.

My questioning was there to:

A) imply that I was surprised that could happen with an Orthodox college in.America.

B) express my ignorance of knowing how to research something like this, as it's out of my ken

C) acknowledging that there is kind of a sham industry with colleges today, and that I have some vague awareness that there are odd religious schools out there.  But I was and am under the impression that those religious schools are from more "home grown" religion.  I wouldn't expect Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, or whatever schools to fit that model.  If there are sham Catholic, Orthodox, etc schools out there I would expect to find them in places where there is more room for homegrown odd schismatic groups in Russia, Greece, etc if it's possible for that kind of thing to happen

But like I said, all this is out of my ken.  I was asking for a way to look into verifying or falsifying the claim.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 01:14:19 PM by William T »
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: has anyone heard of St. Katherine College?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2016, 12:14:00 AM »
I was and am under the impression that those religious schools are from more "home grown" religion. I wouldn't expect Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, or whatever schools to fit that model. 
This used to be true, at least in the states. But small vocal minorities in the OC and RC are converting in and changing that.

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/eidos/2015/08/dreaming-the-wonderful-dream-the-saint-constantine-school/
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 12:14:48 AM by NicholasMyra »
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