Author Topic: Cocktail Theology  (Read 1457 times)

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Offline William T

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Cocktail Theology
« on: November 10, 2016, 04:40:05 PM »
This priest really gets it:


https://www.firstthings.com/article/2016/12/cocktail-theology

Highlight:


Enough throat-clearing—what about the cocktails? I cannot say for certain what my friend Derek may have learned from me about the Lord, but under his tutelage I did grow fond of the martini. I remain so. One should drink what pleases one, yes, but I’m enough of a believer in the objectivity of beauty to say that a martini ought to please one. The play of the gin’s juniper on the palate, its marriage to a grassy, slightly herbal dry vermouth—a union blessed by the twist of citrus that pulls it together and greets the nose even before the tongue saying, “You’ve made it this far today, keep your chin up”—all of this merits the appellation “king of cocktails” often accorded it.

To get a martini right, do just the opposite of James Bond: Ian Fleming may have known cars and guns, but on drinks he was out of his depth. A martini is made with gin, not vodka, stirred and not shaken, and the proper proportions would disappoint one’s grandfather. These days I go for two parts gin to one of vermouth; Derek favors equal parts of each. If these proportions shock your conscience, well, I won’t attack your upbringing, but I will say, “Try it, you’ll like it.” If you are able to locate a delicious dry vermouth like Dolin or Noilly Prat at your local shop, you’ll soon see what led Bernard DeVoto, our greatest writer on cocktails, to say of the martini:

"The water of life was given to us to make us see for a while that we are more nearly men and women, more nearly kind and gentle and generous, pleasanter and stronger, than without its vision there is any evidence we are. . . . One more, and then with a spirit made whole again in a cleansed world, to dinner."


...Here is another virtue the martini brings: value. As a vowed religious, one must be cautious not just about the intoxicating potential of spirits, but also about the cultivation of too fine a palate. When it comes to whiskeys and of course wines, the keener one’s appreciation of the genre, the greater the potential to develop desires beyond one’s means. Not so with the martini. A properly stirred martini with Beefeater and Dolin, a touch of orange bitters, and a twist of lemon could proudly be served in the finest of cocktail lounges and yet served without scandal in a parish rectory. By contrast, I would not likely dine at a restaurant that featured the box of wine that has graced the top of my microwave these last several weeks—but it serves me just fine. It is a great pleasure to be able to host one’s friends at a modest cost and serve them a delightful beverage that stands up with the very best martinis one can find.

I would suggest Plymouth over Beefeaters, but he is right, Gordon's, Beefeater, etc makes for a fine Martini.  I would also prefer a 5:1 count on the vermouth and not a 3:1.  But where he is absolutely right, use a lemon twist and a dash of orange bitters with some vermouth (and preferably a better brand, like Dolin).  Moral: there is something objectively good about a martini.


Odd cocktails to try, for those who like cocktails and want to try something new:

1. Vieux Carre (this has become a favorite of mine):

1/3 oz. Rye (Old Overholt is fine, and my perferred)
1/3 oz.Cognac
1/3 oz. Italian Vermouth (try something like Dolin if you can)
Splash of Benedictine (Yellow Chartreuse works as well, I've never used benedictine as I never see it)
dash of Peychauds, dash of Angastora

Chill and stir Pour over ice, orange twist

2. Adonis

1.5 Fino Sherry
1.5  Italian Vermouth
orange bitters

Chill, stir, strain and pour into chilled glass

3. Pegu
1.5 oz Gin
1 oz Orange Curacao
teaspoon of fresh of lime juice
Orange and Angostura bitters

Stir and strain into chilled glass

4.  One I've made up, tentative name: Syrian Surprise.  I'm still playing around with this, I just wanted to use Arak in a cocktail.

2.5 oz Champagne
1 oz Camapri
.5 oz gin
splash of Arak (or ouzo, if you must)
dash of peychaud bitters
Orange twist

Chill, stir, pour into chilled glass
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 04:41:17 PM by William T »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 07:07:48 PM »
As self-preening as one could expect from First Things.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline William T

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 07:31:38 PM »
As self-preening as one could expect from First Things.

Way to go meta again.  It was linked via facebook from a friend.  The article is by a priest.  I don't know much about this site, it looks a bit polemical but lots of sites are, who cares? This article isn't.  It's not  a serious article, and nowhere near as deadly serious as when I hear  non priest / academic theologian use that awful term "theology of X" .

Write your own post about your hatred of first things if you think it's all that interesting a topic.  If however you have thoughts on how to make the perfect negroni, I'm all ears.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 07:35:30 PM by William T »

Offline Papist

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 07:48:22 PM »
As self-preening as one could expect from First Things.

Everything is the proletariat vs. the bourgeoisie for you, isn't it?
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 07:53:49 PM »
Did you ask for recipes? Is your thread named "Give me cocktail recipes"? Even if so, you ought to know it's not likely posters do precisely as directed.

I replied to your article with an observation about the article.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline William T

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 08:07:44 PM »
I think you, Porter, have a style that comes off as a polemical ax-to-grind, undermining sledgehammer approach that ruins topics and turns the focus on you and your pet issues and thoughts.  If  you come across as belligerent on an article about cocktails and greek mythology I think it's safe to say there is not much reason for you to respond to anything I have to say.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it's something about your style that comes off as too much and I'm not going to spend too much time trying to figure out why.   Anyway, I'm not responding to you on this post anymore. 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 08:13:36 PM by William T »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 08:26:24 PM »
meta

What does it mean?  Is it a word you use to sound cool?
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Offline Papist

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2016, 08:30:00 PM »
meta

What does it mean?  Is it a word you use to sound cool?
Are you seeking a meta-analysis of his use of the word 'meta?'
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2016, 08:56:39 PM »
I think you, Porter, have a style that comes off as a polemical ax-to-grind, undermining sledgehammer approach that ruins topics and turns the focus on you and your pet issues and thoughts.  If  you come across as belligerent on an article about cocktails and greek mythology I think it's safe to say there is not much reason for you to respond to anything I have to say.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it's something about your style that comes off as too much and I'm not going to spend too much time trying to figure out why.   Anyway, I'm not responding to you on this post anymore.

Not at all. You're perhaps stressed and feeling temper that my post was never intended to raise. On the other hand, as they say, if you can't take the heat ...
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline William T

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2016, 09:07:53 PM »
meta

What does it mean?  Is it a word you use to sound cool?

That does sound like a word that could be used in Wayne's World.  Mor have you gone meta?

I use it to mean someone trying to get behind a topic to talk about the "real issues" when that isn't what's called for and draws attention away from anything useful other than maybe someone's pet issues.   Maybe that's a cool kid colloquialism my friends and I use on each other when one of us goes on a soapbox.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 09:13:38 PM by William T »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2016, 09:34:11 PM »
meta

What does it mean?  Is it a word you use to sound cool?

That does sound like a word that could be used in Wayne's World.  Mor have you gone meta?

I use it to mean someone trying to get behind a topic to talk about the "real issues" when that isn't what's called for and draws attention away from anything useful other than maybe someone's pet issues.   Maybe that's a cool kid colloquialism my friends and I use on each other when one of us goes on a soapbox.

Ah...maybe if, like you, I had friends, I'd know and use this term with them.
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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2016, 09:36:49 PM »
Ah...maybe if, like you, I had friends, I'd know and use this term with them.

You already know about meta-physics, you just need to expand your horizontals broski. Here's a place to start:

http://www.iep.utm.edu/meta-epi/

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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2016, 10:08:42 PM »
I'm going to completely ignore everything else in the thread to point out that if someone somehow persuaded me to go to a bar, there are worse choices out there than the Irish Car Bomb (drop 1 shot Bailey's into somewhere less than 1 pint Guinness so that the mixture doesn't overflow across the bar), Captain & Coke or a margarita with decent tequila.

Especially since nobody has Louis Jadot Beaujolais-Villages...or any other Beaujolais for that matter  ::)
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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2016, 01:51:30 PM »
I can find Louis-Jadot at Walmart.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2016, 02:05:32 PM »
Good beaujolaix and burgundies, and armagnac and madeira are extinct in the United States.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline WPM

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2016, 05:09:01 PM »
I'd think again before you go and drink a white russian with a 4-bar.

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2016, 07:01:17 PM »
I've never liked James Bond and I've always thought that men drinking martinis is effeminate. I don't think men should drink wine from wine glasses either. Glasses with stems are for ladies. If you drink with me you're gonna drink from a bottle a can or a mug. That's my proletariat two cents on it. Now I expect to catch hell for this opinion.  ;)

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2016, 07:17:43 PM »
If you drink with me you're gonna drink from a bottle a can or a mug.

The only wine that belongs in a mug is mulled. :P

Husband bought these sometime last year, and by now we use them for nearly any kind of drink. Even the not-so-drinkable kind.

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Offline mcarmichael

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2016, 07:22:19 PM »

...Here is another virtue the martini brings: value. As a vowed religious, one must be cautious not just about the intoxicating potential of spirits, but also about the cultivation of too fine a palate. When it comes to whiskeys and of course wines, the keener one’s appreciation of the genre, the greater the potential to develop desires beyond one’s means.


mind-blown!
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Offline William T

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2016, 07:28:51 PM »
I've never liked James Bond and I've always thought that men drinking martinis is effeminate. I don't think men should drink wine from wine glasses either. Glasses with stems are for ladies. If you drink with me you're gonna drink from a bottle a can or a mug. That's my proletariat two cents on it. Now I expect to catch hell for this opinion.  ;)

Selam



I guess there is this mythological class warfare of drinking I never knew about, or give a fig about.  This is the 2nd time it was brought up here, crazy stuff. I guess Odysseus was "effeminate" when compared to Polyphemus...or perhaps the people inhabiting any city at the time were "effeminate" compared to Ghegis Khan.  Who needs good food and drink when you can eat manly gruel?   Why listen to Mozart when SLAYER exists?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 07:37:59 PM by William T »

Offline William T

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2016, 07:34:01 PM »

...Here is another virtue the martini brings: value. As a vowed religious, one must be cautious not just about the intoxicating potential of spirits, but also about the cultivation of too fine a palate. When it comes to whiskeys and of course wines, the keener one’s appreciation of the genre, the greater the potential to develop desires beyond one’s means.


mind-blown!

agreed.  and the real point of the article was about hospitality, and what you highlighted actually dovetails into that.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2016, 10:14:34 AM »
Good beaujolaix and burgundies, and armagnac and madeira are extinct in the United States.

 ::)

Be friends with a distributor or be ready to pay for it.
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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2016, 10:28:53 AM »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline William T

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2016, 12:32:48 PM »
10 gin cocktails you can make in minutes

Gin is my favorite mixer, and Plymouth is my go to gin.  The secret to a good negroni is in getting a good red vermouth and good ice.  I've not heard of several of those.  I'll have to try out the bramble and fogcutter.

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2016, 02:43:03 PM »
10 gin cocktails you can make in minutes

Gin is my favorite mixer, and Plymouth is my go to gin.  The secret to a good negroni is in getting a good red vermouth and good ice.  I've not heard of several of those.  I'll have to try out the bramble and fogcutter.

I'm a Bombay guy myself, although some newer distilleries have made some good ones.  Aviation Gin comes to mind.

Good ice is always in order.
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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2016, 03:15:14 AM »
10 gin cocktails you can make in minutes

Gin is my favorite mixer, and Plymouth is my go to gin.  The secret to a good negroni is in getting a good red vermouth and good ice.  I've not heard of several of those.  I'll have to try out the bramble and fogcutter.

I'm a Bombay guy myself, although some newer distilleries have made some good ones.  Aviation Gin comes to mind.

Good ice is always in order.

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2016, 02:47:53 AM »
Enjoying this Christmas present from a friend. First time I've had any whiskey in years. To be honest, this Vanilla is way too sweet. Tastes like cough medicine. But it's pretty good mixed with some cola. But I much prefer the plain Crown Royal. Not that I need to get back into the habit of drinking whiskey on a frequent basis. Back in the day I loved Jack Daniels a little too much.

Selam


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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2016, 04:31:00 AM »
I will definitely agree with gin over vodka as the martini of choice. And stirred over shaken. I will disagree about choice of garnish - there are few greater delights in this world than an olive that has been marinating in a mixture of gin and vermouth over the course of a glass - and indeed, there is theology in this preference, for the olive is much better attested to in our sacraments than a lemon twist!

I would also agree with the dangers of over-refining one's palate. It reminds me of the man code: "When offered a beer, accept even if it's not "your brand". Your favorite brand of beer is "free". Your second favorite is "cold"." Though if an actually good beer, I would argue against "cold". Somewhere between just below to exactly at room temperature should suffice. I'm just as happy drinking the oft fabled "gin and juice (laid back)" as I am a martini. I can enjoy a good aged scotch just as easily as a shot of Jameson (apples to oranges, though, Scotch vs Irish whisky. A bad scotch is just plain bad). On that note:

I'm going to completely ignore everything else in the thread to point out that if someone somehow persuaded me to go to a bar, there are worse choices out there than the Irish Car Bomb (drop 1 shot Bailey's into somewhere less than 1 pint Guinness so that the mixture doesn't overflow across the bar)

An Irish car bomb that neglects a shot of Jameson along with the Bailey's isn't worthy of the name. Heck, I'm just fine with leaving out the Bailey's.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2016, 12:47:25 PM »
"When offered a beer, accept even if it's not "your brand". Your favorite brand of beer is "free".

Sounds like that guy never tasted Budweiser, Coors Light, etc. 
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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2016, 01:00:56 PM »
But I much prefer the plain Crown Royal.

Something about Canadian whiskey in general (maybe the blending?) gives me a terrible headache within 10 minutes of drinking it. Don't have that problem with even cheap scotches or American bourbons.
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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2016, 01:20:09 PM »
I've never liked James Bond and I've always thought that men drinking martinis is effeminate. I don't think men should drink wine from wine glasses either. Glasses with stems are for ladies. If you drink with me you're gonna drink from a bottle a can or a mug. That's my proletariat two cents on it. Now I expect to catch hell for this opinion.  ;)

Selam
Proper glassware is preferred.  It is that way for good reasons, being that it enhances (or doesn't hinder) the experience by releasing the true nose and full taste of a wine/spirit.  But with that said, if my choice is drink vs no drink, I'll live using a red Solo cup w/o complaint (or very little).   :)

Offline William T

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2016, 02:04:44 PM »
I've never liked James Bond and I've always thought that men drinking martinis is effeminate. I don't think men should drink wine from wine glasses either. Glasses with stems are for ladies. If you drink with me you're gonna drink from a bottle a can or a mug. That's my proletariat two cents on it. Now I expect to catch hell for this opinion.  ;)

Selam
Proper glassware is preferred.  It is that way for good reasons, being that it enhances (or doesn't hinder) the experience by releasing the true nose and full taste of a wine/spirit.  But with that said, if my choice is drink vs no drink, I'll live using a red Solo cup w/o complaint (or very little).   :)

Being a Toledo native living in Chicago I like to use Libby Glass.  Guests appreciate it if I serve them, and I like serving, the appropriate cocktails in either coupe glasses, Collins glasses,  rock glasses, or wine glasses made in Toledo.

Offline William T

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Re: Cocktail Theology
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2016, 02:12:41 PM »
I will definitely agree with gin over vodka as the martini of choice. And stirred over shaken. I will disagree about choice of garnish - there are few greater delights in this world than an olive that has been marinating in a mixture of gin and vermouth over the course of a glass - and indeed, there is theology in this preference, for the olive is much better attested to in our sacraments than a lemon twist!

I would also agree with the dangers of over-refining one's palate. It reminds me of the man code: "When offered a beer, accept even if it's not "your brand". Your favorite brand of beer is "free". Your second favorite is "cold"." Though if an actually good beer, I would argue against "cold". Somewhere between just below to exactly at room temperature should suffice. I'm just as happy drinking the oft fabled "gin and juice (laid back)" as I am a martini. I can enjoy a good aged scotch just as easily as a shot of Jameson (apples to oranges, though, Scotch vs Irish whisky. A bad scotch is just plain bad). On that note:

I'm going to completely ignore everything else in the thread to point out that if someone somehow persuaded me to go to a bar, there are worse choices out there than the Irish Car Bomb (drop 1 shot Bailey's into somewhere less than 1 pint Guinness so that the mixture doesn't overflow across the bar)

An Irish car bomb that neglects a shot of Jameson along with the Bailey's isn't worthy of the name. Heck, I'm just fine with leaving out the Bailey's.

Beer is turning into a tricky thing anymore.  There are so many crazy and profound flavors, some of them are hard to drink if you aren't in the mood.  In the old days in the Chicago/Detroit area it was rough when someone offered you Hamm's, Old Style, Stroh's, or some janky ice beer / malt liquor.  That's easier to take than some ultra hoppy, fruity, or sour beer if you just aren't in the mood.   I'm more of a liquor guy than a beer guy though.

As for the olive vs lemon.  I certainly prefer lemon, but an olive does hit the spot every now and again, it's a totally different drink.  On rare occasion, if I see them, I'll do the onion (which I think is technically called a Gibson), that's good too.  Try the orange bitters if you ever get the chance.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 02:25:45 PM by William T »