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JamesR
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« on: December 11, 2012, 06:48:59 AM » |
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Does Orthodox doctrine speak on the topic of what the fate of Judas' soul was after betraying Jesus? Where is old Judas at right now? Did he really condemn himself to Orthodox spiritual Hell or is he in Paradise right now eternally repenting for his sin? It seems like he had a change of heart and knew his guilt if it bothered him enough that he actually went and killed himself and attempted to return the money. What do you think ever happened to him? Also, do we know if he interacted with any of the other disciples at all during that small window of time between when Jesus was arrested and when he (Judas) killed himself? I imagine that St. Peter would have probably beat him up if they met each other again. Personally, I feel a great deal of sympathy for Judas--he is probably the biggest screw-up in the whole Bible, and the fact that he betrayed Jesus for wealth hits close to home because when you really think about it, it could be any of us who would betray God if we were offered our greatest desires--which, in Judas' case, was gold. I hope that he received mercy.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something. James, you have problemz. |
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mike
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« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2012, 08:59:15 AM » |
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We don't know.
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Iconodule
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 10:40:41 AM » |
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There's an episode in the voyage of St. Brendan the Navigator where he comes across Judas being tormented by demons on a rock. St. Brendan gives him a temporary respite and forbids the demons to torment him. The torment resumes when St. Brendan departs. There's also Dante's theory:  |
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« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 10:42:29 AM by Iconodule »
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"A riddle or the cricket's cry Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake  |
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2012, 12:34:57 AM » |
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Does Orthodox doctrine speak on the topic of what the fate of Judas' soul was after betraying Jesus? Where is old Judas at right now? Did he really condemn himself to Orthodox spiritual Hell or is he in Paradise right now eternally repenting for his sin? It seems like he had a change of heart and knew his guilt if it bothered him enough that he actually went and killed himself and attempted to return the money. What do you think ever happened to him? Also, do we know if he interacted with any of the other disciples at all during that small window of time between when Jesus was arrested and when he (Judas) killed himself? I imagine that St. Peter would have probably beat him up if they met each other again. Personally, I feel a great deal of sympathy for Judas--he is probably the biggest screw-up in the whole Bible, and the fact that he betrayed Jesus for wealth hits close to home because when you really think about it, it could be any of us who would betray God if we were offered our greatest desires--which, in Judas' case, was gold. I hope that he received mercy.
Repentance is for this life, certainly not for those in Paradise. From Scripture, he gave into despair and took his life. The liturgical texts give a dim view of his current state. As for his eternal state, after the last judgment, God knows. Some Roman Catholics and others have gone where no Christian has ever trod and made Judas into some kind of saint. This is unjustifiable. God knows him and his heart, and he will judge him. For us, he is a warning not to despair, and not to betray the Lord. |
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
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don't even go there!
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2012, 11:02:12 AM » |
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Repentance is for this life, certainly not for those in Paradise. From Scripture, he gave into despair and took his life. The liturgical texts give a dim view of his current state. As for his eternal state, after the last judgment, God knows. Some Roman Catholics and others have gone where no Christian has ever trod and made Judas into some kind of saint. This is unjustifiable. God knows him and his heart, and he will judge him. For us, he is a warning not to despair, and not to betray the Lord.
Names? Citations? Thanks. |
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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
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Orthodox11
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2012, 11:12:28 AM » |
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Regret and repentance are not the same thing. Repentance means turning back to God. All those in gehenna will certainly feel bitter regret and sorrow, but they will remain there because of their continual refusal to turn back to God. Judas did not repent, like St. Peter, and return to Christ, but fled this life in despair.
The Lord said it would have been better for him had he never been born, but ultimately He alone knows the fate of any person. We should take care not to follow his example, not speculate on whether or not we'll meet him in hell if we do.
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 11:37:13 AM » |
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
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Schultz
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2012, 12:05:58 PM » |
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Repentance is for this life, certainly not for those in Paradise. From Scripture, he gave into despair and took his life. The liturgical texts give a dim view of his current state. As for his eternal state, after the last judgment, God knows. Some Roman Catholics and others have gone where no Christian has ever trod and made Judas into some kind of saint. This is unjustifiable. God knows him and his heart, and he will judge him. For us, he is a warning not to despair, and not to betray the Lord.
Names? Citations? Thanks. I think he's referring to this post http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,47878.msg843458.html#msg843458 |
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 12:11:47 AM » |
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Repentance is for this life, certainly not for those in Paradise. From Scripture, he gave into despair and took his life. The liturgical texts give a dim view of his current state. As for his eternal state, after the last judgment, God knows. Some Roman Catholics and others have gone where no Christian has ever trod and made Judas into some kind of saint. This is unjustifiable. God knows him and his heart, and he will judge him. For us, he is a warning not to despair, and not to betray the Lord.
Names? Citations? Thanks. First, I wasn't trying to disparage Roman Catholics. I know most RCs would think them pariahs. I don't have any names and citations, just memories from posts on the blog www.cathcon.blogspot.com Catholic Church Conservation, a traditional-minded blog by an RC in communion with the Vatican (at least he was), but concerned for creeping liberalism and idiocy. As you know, the Inquisition has not yet gotten to all the wackos, so there are still RCs who confess extremely bizarre ideas, even amongst the hierarchy. |
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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tweety234
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 03:36:42 PM » |
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Does Orthodox doctrine speak on the topic of what the fate of Judas' soul was after betraying Jesus? Where is old Judas at right now? Did he really condemn himself to Orthodox spiritual Hell or is he in Paradise right now eternally repenting for his sin? It seems like he had a change of heart and knew his guilt if it bothered him enough that he actually went and killed himself and attempted to return the money. What do you think ever happened to him? Also, do we know if he interacted with any of the other disciples at all during that small window of time between when Jesus was arrested and when he (Judas) killed himself? I imagine that St. Peter would have probably beat him up if they met each other again. Personally, I feel a great deal of sympathy for Judas--he is probably the biggest screw-up in the whole Bible, and the fact that he betrayed Jesus for wealth hits close to home because when you really think about it, it could be any of us who would betray God if we were offered our greatest desires--which, in Judas' case, was gold. I hope that he received mercy.
He didn't attempt to return the money. He threw it at them if I remember correctly from the series Jesus of Nazareth. After he realized that he betrayed innocent blood. It seems to me also that he had a change of heart. But I will leave it upto God. He knows everything, we only know behaviour. |
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“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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WPM
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 04:33:06 PM » |
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I don't know
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« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 04:33:25 PM by WPM »
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Melodist
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 12:26:55 AM » |
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His fate is that it would be better for him if had never been born, according to the words of Christ as they are recorded in the NT.
I'm not passing judgement, only pointing out what is written about the subject.
But the point is to compare and contrast how Judas and Peter respectively betrayed and denied Christ, how Peter went to Christ in repentence and Judas did not, and who we should imitate when we sin. Also, we liturgically compare the betrayal of Judas with the confession of the thief on the cross and who we should imitate.
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