OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 30, 2014, 09:21:11 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Spiritualism VS Empiricism  (Read 911 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: On-n-Off
Jurisdiction: OCA (the only truly Canonical American Orthodox Church)
Posts: 5,289


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« on: December 09, 2012, 02:14:34 AM »

I don't understand the logic behind religion or spiritualism at all. How is it that you can stigmatize scholastic reasoning and believe in something that violates it? Religions often use these weird existential terms that don't make sense to me at all. I don't understand how there can be "something deeper" or how we can have a relationship with someone we cannot interact with. Sure, I can understand having a relationship with God if He actually talked to you, became manifest or showed you the Uncreated Light--like some of the Saints experienced--but for the average Joes like us, how can we have a relationship with Him? It doesn't make sense to me at all. I also don't get what people mean when they say humans are "spiritual" or all that other weirdo existential stuff. As far as I am concerned, if I cannot perceive something with my reasoning faculties and five senses, then it is irrelevant and out of my grasp. What else do we have? Be honest here. What other ways do we have for attaining knowledge other than empirical reason? The mind is all we have. Even our feelings are interpreted by our mind. So what exactly is so wrong with Scholasticism? Can you really blame people for leaving religion when it spits on the face of all logical reasoning? You should be happy that people are thinking for once opposed to adhering to something just because their parents made them or because society told them to.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church
Posts: 12,736


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 01:17:01 PM »

One day you're up, the next day you're down. One day you're ranting about the church, then about how righteous you are. One day you want spirituality, then it's all science.

What is it with you?
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
adampjr
Karamazov
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 89


Penguin


« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 02:18:33 PM »

I don't understand the logic behind religion or spiritualism at all. How is it that you can stigmatize scholastic reasoning and believe in something that violates it? Religions often use these weird existential terms that don't make sense to me at all. I don't understand how there can be "something deeper" or how we can have a relationship with someone we cannot interact with. Sure, I can understand having a relationship with God if He actually talked to you, became manifest or showed you the Uncreated Light--like some of the Saints experienced--but for the average Joes like us, how can we have a relationship with Him? It doesn't make sense to me at all. I also don't get what people mean when they say humans are "spiritual" or all that other weirdo existential stuff. As far as I am concerned, if I cannot perceive something with my reasoning faculties and five senses, then it is irrelevant and out of my grasp. What else do we have? Be honest here. What other ways do we have for attaining knowledge other than empirical reason? The mind is all we have. Even our feelings are interpreted by our mind. So what exactly is so wrong with Scholasticism? Can you really blame people for leaving religion when it spits on the face of all logical reasoning? You should be happy that people are thinking for once opposed to adhering to something just because their parents made them or because society told them to.

I think you are presenting something of a false dichotemy between "spiritualism" and empiricism, as if we must somehow choose between one or the other during our life on Earth. Answering questions about how electrons behave might best be answered by emprical observation rather than consulting Scripture, philosophy, tradition, society, or any number of other thigns. That does not mean that those other things are without merit. Why do you set the opposition between "spiritualism vs empiricism"?
Logged
lovesupreme
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 736


Out of This World


« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2012, 02:43:31 PM »

I know that this response is not rational, but hear me out:

This mode of thinking will lead you to a spiritual dead end. You need prayer. With God's help, you will enter into a new mode of thinking, and these issues will fade away.

I felt like you did for a while, but then I genuinely encountered God. I had a choice to make: write off the experience as a nothing more than my subconscious choices and wish fulfillment, or accept what I witnessed as a real sign of divinity. I made my choice, and my perceptions have changed because of it.
Logged
Cyrillic
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Posts: 8,743



« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2012, 02:46:02 PM »

Quickly! Get Doctor Plato and Doctor Plotinus!
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 02:47:45 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

On a OC.net diet.

"Chi son?  Sono un poeta. Che cosa faccio? Scrivo. E come vivo?  Vivo."
-Giacomo Puccini
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,133


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2012, 04:10:13 PM »

One day you're up, the next day you're down. One day you're ranting about the church, then about how righteous you are. One day you want spirituality, then it's all science.

What is it with you?

See the thing is James, this person does not understand what spiritual and faith struggle is.  I only get one liners and insults from biro.  It makes biro feel better I guess.

There is a balance, and that is what you seek James.   You are searching for truth that makes sense, where much of Science, Logic, and Reason work with faith.  This is something that I do seek out constantly.  SEEK it, and you will find.  Knock and the door will be opened.

For me, I've never given into a THEORY in Science, that somebody draws conclusions with, and says "is right".  Nor have I (evidently) accepted what people hand me and say "is right" religiously by their definition and interpretation.

There is nothing wrong with actually thinking with the mind God gave you.  Use it to do God's will according to the scriptures. 

Though Science is ridden with atheistic minds, there are many God believing Scientists.

A Scientist/Astronomer (and more) Galileo said - "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."   

Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.049 seconds with 33 queries.