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Author Topic: can we defend homosexuals, as Christians?  (Read 7596 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: April 22, 2012, 10:30:12 PM »

Arise, O thread, and judge the for'm!
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« Reply #91 on: April 22, 2012, 10:46:59 PM »

As usual, im late to the party... (way late in this case) but I would certainly think you should stand up for your friend against any bullying or harassment.  To me, youre not 'approving' of his homosexuality, but you are rather taking a stand against the people who are doing the bullying and harassing.  They shouldnt do that to anyone regardless of sexual orientation.  I dont want to sound all 2nd grade Sunday School here, but isnt all sin equal in Gods eyes?  If someone is sinning with homosexuality, how is that different that bullying?  Jesus sure had a way with making friends with sinners, so I would think that would be ok for you to do the same.

But, I wouldnt try to lie or back down when it comes to the Christian stance on homosexuality.  Im sure he knows about it already anyways.  But sometimes I think God is just as upset with how some Christians (not necessarily any of you) treat homosexuals as he is with the issue of homosexuality itself. 

However, this thread is way older than I thought it was when I first started typing, so this is probably irrelevant now anyways...
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« Reply #92 on: April 22, 2012, 11:03:54 PM »


However, this thread is way older than I thought it was when I first started typing, so this is probably irrelevant now anyways...

Not irrelevant.  The kid I spoke about in the original post has since started a club at school for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender students and straight allies.  They meet to talk and support eachother.  I've seen a huge decrease of this type of bullying in my school, thank God.  Gay faculty members host this club, and I think this shoes kids that one can be gay, as well as a normal person.  It's not all leather chaps and rainbows Wink
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 11:06:50 PM by trevor72694 » Logged

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« Reply #93 on: April 22, 2012, 11:13:48 PM »


However, this thread is way older than I thought it was when I first started typing, so this is probably irrelevant now anyways...

Not irrelevant.  The kid I spoke about in the original post has since started a club at school for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender students and straight allies.  They meet to talk and support eachother.  I've seen a huge decrease of this type of bullying in my school, thank God.  Gay faculty members host this club, and I think this shoes kids that one can be gay, as well as a normal person.  It's not all leather chaps and rainbows Wink

Glad to hear the bullying has stopped.  These days, im not sure you can really convince homosexuals that homosexuality is wrong.  If thats the case, the only other thing you can do is extend the love of Christ to them and pray that God would have mercy on them, just like we ask God to have mercy on us.  We all need it just the same.

Just my 2 cents.
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« Reply #94 on: April 22, 2012, 11:24:39 PM »


However, this thread is way older than I thought it was when I first started typing, so this is probably irrelevant now anyways...

Not irrelevant.  The kid I spoke about in the original post has since started a club at school for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender students and straight allies.  They meet to talk and support eachother.  I've seen a huge decrease of this type of bullying in my school, thank God.  Gay faculty members host this club, and I think this shoes kids that one can be gay, as well as a normal person.  It's not all leather chaps and rainbows Wink

Glad to hear the bullying has stopped.  These days, im not sure you can really convince homosexuals that homosexuality is wrong.  If thats the case, the only other thing you can do is extend the love of Christ to them and pray that God would have mercy on them, just like we ask God to have mercy on us.  We all need it just the same.

Just my 2 cents.

Exactly.  I think that homosexual people have to come to the realization of their sin, which is between them and God, on their own.  Homosexuality is something that I now struggle with very much.  Were it not for the Church and God's mercy, I would probably be a different person as a result of my struggle. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 11:24:51 PM by trevor72694 » Logged

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« Reply #95 on: April 23, 2012, 06:25:08 PM »


However, this thread is way older than I thought it was when I first started typing, so this is probably irrelevant now anyways...

Not irrelevant.  The kid I spoke about in the original post has since started a club at school for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender students and straight allies.  They meet to talk and support eachother.  I've seen a huge decrease of this type of bullying in my school, thank God.  Gay faculty members host this club, and I think this shoes kids that one can be gay, as well as a normal person.  It's not all leather chaps and rainbows Wink

Wouldn't it be nice if we could say there was a decrease in homosexuality as well.  Wink
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« Reply #96 on: April 23, 2012, 06:31:01 PM »


However, this thread is way older than I thought it was when I first started typing, so this is probably irrelevant now anyways...

Not irrelevant.  The kid I spoke about in the original post has since started a club at school for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender students and straight allies.  They meet to talk and support eachother.  I've seen a huge decrease of this type of bullying in my school, thank God.  Gay faculty members host this club, and I think this shoes kids that one can be gay, as well as a normal person.  It's not all leather chaps and rainbows Wink

Wouldn't it be nice if we could say there was a decrease in homosexuality as well.  Wink

If only.  I seriously wonder if that's possible.  Since it's unlikely so decrease homosexual feelings in people, I would like to see a decrease in the "gay lifestyle" that seems to be imposed by the media.  They don't realize that you can have homosexual feelings, but you don't have to indulge in them.  It's just like when an alcoholic has a drink.  This part is a choice.  There are many homosexuals, both past and present, who've carried their crosses and denied their sinful nature.
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« Reply #97 on: April 23, 2012, 07:58:10 PM »


However, this thread is way older than I thought it was when I first started typing, so this is probably irrelevant now anyways...

Not irrelevant.  The kid I spoke about in the original post has since started a club at school for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender students and straight allies.  They meet to talk and support eachother.  I've seen a huge decrease of this type of bullying in my school, thank God.  Gay faculty members host this club, and I think this shoes kids that one can be gay, as well as a normal person.  It's not all leather chaps and rainbows Wink

Wouldn't it be nice if we could say there was a decrease in homosexuality as well.  Wink

If only.  I seriously wonder if that's possible.  Since it's unlikely so decrease homosexual feelings in people, I would like to see a decrease in the "gay lifestyle" that seems to be imposed by the media.  They don't realize that you can have homosexual feelings, but you don't have to indulge in them.  It's just like when an alcoholic has a drink.  This part is a choice.  There are many homosexuals, both past and present, who've carried their crosses and denied their sinful nature.

And they are some of the people that I respect the most.  Their cross is much heavier than any of mine.
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« Reply #98 on: December 06, 2012, 02:55:41 PM »

You should defend his honor as he is made in the image and likeness of God, but you should never defend his behavior.

Exactly.  There is no defense for homosexual activity.  There is also no defense for making fun of them, either.

are you saying that if someone makes fun of a friend who happens to be gay. We shouldn't defend our friend.? The fact that he is a sinner (and who among us isn't). Does not give anyone the right to make fun of anyone else.
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« Reply #99 on: December 06, 2012, 02:59:02 PM »

It's a sensitive subject. The reason that they are making fun of him is because he is gay. By standing up for him, you are empowering him to stand up for his homosexuality. I'm not sure how it would be possible to stand up for him without expressing tolerance for his sexual preference. I'm really at a loss here how to best represent your beliefs while still standing up for your friend. Maybe just ignore the mockers and go on with your business?

what if (supposedly speaking), these mockers also try to harm him with a knife. Should I go about my business, just because i may encourage him to stand up for his sins?
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« Reply #100 on: December 06, 2012, 03:00:01 PM »

It's a sensitive subject. The reason that they are making fun of him is because he is gay. By standing up for him, you are empowering him to stand up for his homosexuality. I'm not sure how it would be possible to stand up for him without expressing tolerance for his sexual preference. I'm really at a loss here how to best represent your beliefs while still standing up for your friend. Maybe just ignore the mockers and go on with your business?
In other words, abandon your friends to the mockers.  Doesn't sound Christian to me.

agree 100%. God bless you.
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« Reply #101 on: December 06, 2012, 03:00:55 PM »

You should defend his honor as he is made in the image and likeness of God, but you should never defend his behavior.

Exactly.  There is no defense for homosexual activity.  There is also no defense for making fun of them, either.

are you saying that if someone makes fun of a friend who happens to be gay. We shouldn't defend our friend.? The fact that he is a sinner (and who among us isn't). Does not give anyone the right to make fun of anyone else.

Could you at least read the posts you necromancize?
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« Reply #102 on: December 06, 2012, 03:03:39 PM »

I disagree.  Standing by and letting a friend be insulted is not how men regard friendship.  If you cannot stand up for him when he is insulted, then you should not befriend him.  No Christian would mock this man who is under temptation from the devil.  Instead, a Christian would pray for him and ask forgiveness for their own sins.  Those that are mocking the homosexual are no better than him, and likely worse due to the sin of Pride that makes them think that they are somehow better than him and have the right to degrade him.  Giving such people a rebuke is not out of line.  Perhaps by seeing the strength of character in a real Christian, the homosexual's heart will be moved to also find this God that his Christian friend worships. 


It's a sensitive subject. The reason that they are making fun of him is because he is gay. By standing up for him, you are empowering him to stand up for his homosexuality. I'm not sure how it would be possible to stand up for him without expressing tolerance for his sexual preference. I'm really at a loss here how to best represent your beliefs while still standing up for your friend. Maybe just ignore the mockers and go on with your business?
In other words, abandon your friends to the mockers.  Doesn't sound Christian to me.

Well I didn't mean abandon him, still befriend him, yes, but don't vocally stand up for him, perhaps? What I am saying is that if you tell someone to stop making fun of a person (no doubt by calling him a homosexual or a variant term), then you are in some way defending the act/behavior, at least in appearance. Do you disagree?

 "If you cannot stand up for him when he is insulted, then you should not befriend him." or perhaps he shouldn't befriend you. Since you wouldn't deserve his friendship in this case. (By the way by you I mean anyone)
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« Reply #103 on: December 06, 2012, 03:10:06 PM »

This thread necromancing is starting to get on my nerves.
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« Reply #104 on: December 06, 2012, 03:10:54 PM »

I disagree.  Standing by and letting a friend be insulted is not how men regard friendship.  If you cannot stand up for him when he is insulted, then you should not befriend him.  No Christian would mock this man who is under temptation from the devil.  Instead, a Christian would pray for him and ask forgiveness for their own sins.  Those that are mocking the homosexual are no better than him, and likely worse due to the sin of Pride that makes them think that they are somehow better than him and have the right to degrade him.  Giving such people a rebuke is not out of line.  Perhaps by seeing the strength of character in a real Christian, the homosexual's heart will be moved to also find this God that his Christian friend worships. 


It's a sensitive subject. The reason that they are making fun of him is because he is gay. By standing up for him, you are empowering him to stand up for his homosexuality. I'm not sure how it would be possible to stand up for him without expressing tolerance for his sexual preference. I'm really at a loss here how to best represent your beliefs while still standing up for your friend. Maybe just ignore the mockers and go on with your business?
In other words, abandon your friends to the mockers.  Doesn't sound Christian to me.

Well I didn't mean abandon him, still befriend him, yes, but don't vocally stand up for him, perhaps? What I am saying is that if you tell someone to stop making fun of a person (no doubt by calling him a homosexual or a variant term), then you are in some way defending the act/behavior, at least in appearance. Do you disagree?

 "If you cannot stand up for him when he is insulted, then you should not befriend him." or perhaps he shouldn't befriend you. Since you wouldn't deserve his friendship in this case. (By the way by you I mean anyone)

Are you just trying to tick me off? 
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« Reply #105 on: December 06, 2012, 03:11:25 PM »

Meh. I accidentally went to the first page, saw a post by deusveritasest, and thought he was back. No such luck.


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« Reply #106 on: December 06, 2012, 03:12:01 PM »

This thread necromancing is starting to get on my nerves.

+1
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« Reply #107 on: December 06, 2012, 03:15:00 PM »

Quote
make clear to him that while you are his friend, you do NOT accept his behavior.

Or something else instead. "You are my friend and I love you no matter what. And I will be there for you"
Remember, a good friend is the one who walks in when the rest of the world walks out. Don't you want to be a good friend?
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« Reply #108 on: December 06, 2012, 03:21:04 PM »

This thread necromancing is starting to get on my nerves.

+1
+2

Although it is sometimes interesting to read these things in light of what we know now.
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« Reply #109 on: December 06, 2012, 04:18:24 PM »

This thread necromancing is starting to get on my nerves.

+1
+2

Although it is sometimes interesting to read these things in light of what we know now.
Unfortunately.
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« Reply #110 on: December 06, 2012, 04:22:52 PM »

This thread necromancing is starting to get on my nerves.

+1
+2

Although it is sometimes interesting to read these things in light of what we know now.
Unfortunately.
Yes, truly.
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« Reply #111 on: December 06, 2012, 06:36:48 PM »

Reading comprehension fail.

You should defend his honor as he is made in the image and likeness of God, but you should never defend his behavior.

Exactly.  There is no defense for homosexual activity.  There is also no defense for making fun of them, either.

are you saying that if someone makes fun of a friend who happens to be gay. We shouldn't defend our friend.? The fact that he is a sinner (and who among us isn't). Does not give anyone the right to make fun of anyone else.
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« Reply #112 on: December 06, 2012, 06:56:21 PM »

It's a sensitive subject. The reason that they are making fun of him is because he is gay. By standing up for him, you are empowering him to stand up for his homosexuality. I'm not sure how it would be possible to stand up for him without expressing tolerance for his sexual preference. I'm really at a loss here how to best represent your beliefs while still standing up for your friend. Maybe just ignore the mockers and go on with your business?

what if (supposedly speaking), these mockers also try to harm him with a knife. Should I go about my business, just because i may encourage him to stand up for his sins?

Combining both your posts

How do you defend him? By justifying homosexuality or simply by a personal defense?

How in the World could you come to think any Orthodox Christian would not defend  ( if they are able) someone being attacked with a knife?   
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« Reply #113 on: December 06, 2012, 07:04:27 PM »

How about we just empower a guy into thinking he shouldn't be stabbed to death?

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« Reply #114 on: December 06, 2012, 07:13:38 PM »

I disagree.  Standing by and letting a friend be insulted is not how men regard friendship.  If you cannot stand up for him when he is insulted, then you should not befriend him.  No Christian would mock this man who is under temptation from the devil.  Instead, a Christian would pray for him and ask forgiveness for their own sins.  Those that are mocking the homosexual are no better than him, and likely worse due to the sin of Pride that makes them think that they are somehow better than him and have the right to degrade him.  Giving such people a rebuke is not out of line.  Perhaps by seeing the strength of character in a real Christian, the homosexual's heart will be moved to also find this God that his Christian friend worships. 


It's a sensitive subject. The reason that they are making fun of him is because he is gay. By standing up for him, you are empowering him to stand up for his homosexuality. I'm not sure how it would be possible to stand up for him without expressing tolerance for his sexual preference. I'm really at a loss here how to best represent your beliefs while still standing up for your friend. Maybe just ignore the mockers and go on with your business?
In other words, abandon your friends to the mockers.  Doesn't sound Christian to me.

Well I didn't mean abandon him, still befriend him, yes, but don't vocally stand up for him, perhaps? What I am saying is that if you tell someone to stop making fun of a person (no doubt by calling him a homosexual or a variant term), then you are in some way defending the act/behavior, at least in appearance. Do you disagree?

 "If you cannot stand up for him when he is insulted, then you should not befriend him." or perhaps he shouldn't befriend you. Since you wouldn't deserve his friendship in this case. (By the way by you I mean anyone)

Are you just trying to tick me off? 

why do you think that? and even if I did. You also have a choice. Not to allow yourself to  be ticked off. don;t you?
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« Reply #115 on: December 06, 2012, 07:19:41 PM »

Quote from: vamrat
Are you just trying to tick me off? 

Yes, it looks that way.
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« Reply #116 on: December 06, 2012, 07:21:39 PM »

It's a sensitive subject. The reason that they are making fun of him is because he is gay. By standing up for him, you are empowering him to stand up for his homosexuality. I'm not sure how it would be possible to stand up for him without expressing tolerance for his sexual preference. I'm really at a loss here how to best represent your beliefs while still standing up for your friend. Maybe just ignore the mockers and go on with your business?

what if (supposedly speaking), these mockers also try to harm him with a knife. Should I go about my business, just because i may encourage him to stand up for his sins?

Combining both your posts

How do you defend him? By justifying homosexuality or simply by a personal defense?

How in the World could you come to think any Orthodox Christian would not defend  ( if they are able) someone being attacked with a knife?   

personally I would defend my friend by a personal defense. While, at the same time, I would remind the mockers, that what my buddy does in his bedroom. Is none of their business. And I would also point them to the gospel where jesus whom we claim to worship, says "let he who is without a sin, cast the first stone.". Who is without a sin though? Noone but JESUS. Therefore, People need to let JESUS be the judge. Not their stomachs.
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« Reply #117 on: December 06, 2012, 07:36:51 PM »

How about we just empower a guy into thinking he shouldn't be stabbed to death?


indeed. People need to be educated about their right to live. Which is given by God.
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« Reply #118 on: December 06, 2012, 08:49:44 PM »

How about we just empower a guy into thinking he shouldn't be stabbed to death?



That's not empowerment, that's sentience.  I think you will find most creatures will try to avoid getting stabbed to death.
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« Reply #119 on: December 06, 2012, 08:51:13 PM »

I disagree.  Standing by and letting a friend be insulted is not how men regard friendship.  If you cannot stand up for him when he is insulted, then you should not befriend him.  No Christian would mock this man who is under temptation from the devil.  Instead, a Christian would pray for him and ask forgiveness for their own sins.  Those that are mocking the homosexual are no better than him, and likely worse due to the sin of Pride that makes them think that they are somehow better than him and have the right to degrade him.  Giving such people a rebuke is not out of line.  Perhaps by seeing the strength of character in a real Christian, the homosexual's heart will be moved to also find this God that his Christian friend worships. 


It's a sensitive subject. The reason that they are making fun of him is because he is gay. By standing up for him, you are empowering him to stand up for his homosexuality. I'm not sure how it would be possible to stand up for him without expressing tolerance for his sexual preference. I'm really at a loss here how to best represent your beliefs while still standing up for your friend. Maybe just ignore the mockers and go on with your business?
In other words, abandon your friends to the mockers.  Doesn't sound Christian to me.

Well I didn't mean abandon him, still befriend him, yes, but don't vocally stand up for him, perhaps? What I am saying is that if you tell someone to stop making fun of a person (no doubt by calling him a homosexual or a variant term), then you are in some way defending the act/behavior, at least in appearance. Do you disagree?

 "If you cannot stand up for him when he is insulted, then you should not befriend him." or perhaps he shouldn't befriend you. Since you wouldn't deserve his friendship in this case. (By the way by you I mean anyone)

Are you just trying to tick me off? 

why do you think that? and even if I did. You also have a choice. Not to allow yourself to  be ticked off. don;t you?

Because, when I read something stupid I am overcome with sinful passions and the spirit of tick.
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« Reply #120 on: December 06, 2012, 09:06:50 PM »

This thread necromancing is starting to get on my nerves.

I sorta dig it.

Cyrillic, want to know a powerful psychological weapon?

Don't reward behavior you don't like.

And this means ignoring it.

If you have previously rewarded said behavioral pattern, the behavior will likely increase in frequency and intensity before it dramatically drops off.

But you must always ignore it, unschedule rewarding is the most powerful of psychological treats.

Use these dumb tactics well.
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« Reply #121 on: December 06, 2012, 09:09:33 PM »

Because, when I read something stupid I am overcome with sinful passions and the spirit of tick.



He is the Tick, and he is mighty!  Smiley
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« Reply #122 on: December 06, 2012, 10:00:09 PM »

It's a sensitive subject. The reason that they are making fun of him is because he is gay. By standing up for him, you are empowering him to stand up for his homosexuality. I'm not sure how it would be possible to stand up for him without expressing tolerance for his sexual preference. I'm really at a loss here how to best represent your beliefs while still standing up for your friend. Maybe just ignore the mockers and go on with your business?

what if (supposedly speaking), these mockers also try to harm him with a knife. Should I go about my business, just because i may encourage him to stand up for his sins?

Combining both your posts

How do you defend him? By justifying homosexuality or simply by a personal defense?

How in the World could you come to think any Orthodox Christian would not defend  ( if they are able) someone being attacked with a knife?   

personally I would defend my friend by a personal defense. While, at the same time, I would remind the mockers, that what my buddy does in his bedroom. Is none of their business. And I would also point them to the gospel where jesus whom we claim to worship, says "let he who is without a sin, cast the first stone.". Who is without a sin though? Noone but JESUS. Therefore, People need to let JESUS be the judge. Not their stomachs.

Perhaps unless that line of thought leads you to "anything goes".." I cant judge, only God does that"... so do whatever you like.
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« Reply #123 on: December 06, 2012, 10:04:31 PM »

How about we just empower a guy into thinking he shouldn't be stabbed to death?
I think that is a great idea, especially for those involved in the drug trade and other risky behavior.
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« Reply #124 on: December 06, 2012, 10:27:34 PM »

This thread necromancing is starting to get on my nerves.

I sorta dig it.

Cyrillic, want to know a powerful psychological weapon?

Don't reward behavior you don't like.

And this means ignoring it.

If you have previously rewarded said behavioral pattern, the behavior will likely increase in frequency and intensity before it dramatically drops off.

But you must always ignore it, unschedule rewarding is the most powerful of psychological treats.

Use these dumb tactics well.


Tell him bro.
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« Reply #125 on: December 07, 2012, 12:49:28 AM »

How about we just empower a guy into thinking he shouldn't be stabbed to death?



Who thinks they (themselves) should be stabbed to death? Maybe there are some, but they probably have greater psychological problems than could be addressed briefly even with the best of friendly intentions.
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« Reply #126 on: December 07, 2012, 09:32:00 AM »

It is wrong to act violently towards someone because they are sinners. Two wrongs don't make a right. We should teach people to not judge, and to love even their enemies. Of course, we should be careful that we are not understood as if we are defending the sin of homosexuality.  

And, it is hard to tell someone about their sin. Perhaps, let them know what you believe and why you think homosexuality is a sin, but you can't force someone into believing like you. You can only offer Truth, facts, and pray that God will illumine them.

P.S. However, in the case of homosexuality, I wouldn't start with telling them that it is a sin. I'd start by telling them about Christ, The Gospel, and work it gradually from there, if possible. I mean really, our greatest problem is not our individual sins, but our lack of faith, and knowledge of God.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 09:46:55 AM by IoanC » Logged

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« Reply #127 on: December 07, 2012, 01:36:28 PM »

This thread necromancing is starting to get on my nerves.

It's the beginning of the zombie apocalypse...
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« Reply #128 on: December 07, 2012, 02:27:20 PM »

Of course, we should be careful that we are not understood as if we are defending the sin of homosexuality.  

If defending homosexuals makes people believe that we are defending homosexuality, it is the fault of the attacker, not the defender.
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« Reply #129 on: December 08, 2012, 12:28:14 AM »

Of course, we should be careful that we are not understood as if we are defending the sin of homosexuality.  

If defending homosexuals makes people believe that we are defending homosexuality, it is the fault of the attacker, not the defender.

Indeed.
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« Reply #130 on: December 08, 2012, 02:03:17 AM »

Of course, we should be careful that we are not understood as if we are defending the sin of homosexuality.  

If defending homosexuals makes people believe that we are defending homosexuality, it is the fault of the attacker, not the defender.

What I meant, though, was that we don't make the mistake of defending the sin and it is clear that we are defending only the person. Otherwise, yes, would not be our fault.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 02:04:08 AM by IoanC » Logged

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« Reply #131 on: December 08, 2012, 03:05:54 AM »

+3
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« Reply #132 on: December 09, 2012, 03:57:31 PM »

Conservative Rebel, perhaps being excluded from a normal, accepted role in society and shunned as person would cause someone to whither up into a husk. Perhaps these broken souls, most broken by society and its norms, congregating together - in secret - easily hurt each other if not careful. What is a person to do if they can't tolerate the religious life but are homosexual? People are the results of their environments, experiences, and choices, not choices alone.

I don't have any answers, but I'm not going to presume and generalize one sin is worse than another (with in reason of course.)
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« Reply #133 on: December 09, 2012, 04:13:14 PM »


+4

Is this, like, a thing now?
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« Reply #134 on: December 09, 2012, 04:38:30 PM »

+5
No. It isn't.
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