Author Topic: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?  (Read 1403 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline walter1234

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 928
Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« on: December 07, 2012, 04:07:45 PM »
As I come from charismatic church,in Charistmatic church ,it teaches that all Christians can cast out the demons in Jesus' name.But in Orthodoxy , only priest can do so.

Why only the priests can do the exorcism, but the other followers of Jesus can't? Did the church fathers only permit the priests to do the exorcism as well?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 04:30:00 PM by walter1234 »

Offline FatherGiryus

  • You are being watched.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,122
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 04:32:18 PM »
The Charismatic movement is rather new in terms of historical Christianity, and so I can't speak to its orders and organization.

The first 'exorcists' we see in the New Testament were the Apostles, and afterwards there were designated 'exorcists' who served under the supervision of the Bishop.  Most of these Apstolic offices, such as 'teachers' and 'catechists' were merged into the Priesthood within the first few centuries.  After all, the 'elders' or 'presbyters' are today's 'priests'.  An 'elder' would likely be an exorcist, rather than a neophyte.

Christians have the right to banish demons from their property and forbid them to enter their bodies.  But, when it comes to propagating a 'ministry' and presume to treat others... now you are talking about an activity which should and is supervised by the presiding Bishop.  Otherwise, an independently-operated 'deliverance ministry' can become abusive or try to treat mental problems that really need medication.

While I am not denying that there are some examples of genuine exorcism outside the Church, there are also plenty of examples where people blame their own failings or even mental illness on demons.  This is what the Church seeks to remedy the possibilities of abuse by guaranteeing that exorcists are trained clergy who are answerable to authority.


As I come from charismatic church,in Charistmatic church ,it teaches that all believers can cast out the demons in Jesus' name.But in Orthodoxy , only priest can do so.

Why only the priests can do the exorcism, but all other followers of Jesus can't? Did the church fathers only permit the priests to do the exorcism as well?
http://orthodoxyandrecovery.blogspot.com
The most dangerous thing about riding a tiger is the dismount.  - Indian proverb

Offline Happy Lutheran

  • Servant of Christ
  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 280
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 04:46:06 PM »
Mark 9:38-41

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
 
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.
1 Corinthians 1:27 - But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 04:56:26 PM »
Mark 9:38-41

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
 
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.


Acts 19
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” 16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

Offline Eastern Mind

  • Hi! I'm Olaf and I like warm hugs!
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 713
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 05:00:43 PM »
Mark 9:38-41

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
 
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.


Acts 19
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” 16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

In context, what do both of those verses mean? What did Jesus mean?

Just asking, I've always wondered
"ALL THE GODS OF THE HINDUS ARE DEMONS HAHAHAHAHA!!"

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2012, 05:50:29 PM »
Mark 9:38-41

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
 
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.


Acts 19
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” 16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

In context, what do both of those verses mean? What did Jesus mean?

Just asking, I've always wondered

I believe the first one says that there are other groups who has the grace of God to exorcise demons in His Name.  Such as the case that we have exorsists today in the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.  The second one reminds us though that not anyone can just invoke the Name of Christ and carry out His ministry.  It is clear in Acts that those who try to exorcise were not Christians.  So there is a boundary to this, and not anyone can just do whatever they want and claim legitimacy.

Offline FatherGiryus

  • You are being watched.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,122
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2012, 09:08:17 PM »
The Church has never had a 'everybody' approach to Sacraments.  Exorcism is a Sacrament: there is an invocation of God into a situation and a request for His specific intervention.

Not everyone offers the Gifts.
Not everyone teaches.
Not everyone preaches.

The Church has placed responsibility for these ministries under the bishops to prevent abuse and ensure that the people of God receive true blessings and not false signs.


Mark 9:38-41

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
 
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.


Acts 19
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” 16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

In context, what do both of those verses mean? What did Jesus mean?

Just asking, I've always wondered

I believe the first one says that there are other groups who has the grace of God to exorcise demons in His Name.  Such as the case that we have exorsists today in the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.  The second one reminds us though that not anyone can just invoke the Name of Christ and carry out His ministry.  It is clear in Acts that those who try to exorcise were not Christians.  So there is a boundary to this, and not anyone can just do whatever they want and claim legitimacy.
http://orthodoxyandrecovery.blogspot.com
The most dangerous thing about riding a tiger is the dismount.  - Indian proverb

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,832
  • Leave me alone, I was only singing
    • Alaska Volcanoes
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2012, 09:13:25 PM »
I wouldn't say one should take horror movies as the literal truth, but I bet exorcisms are very dangerous, and I wouldn't try to do them - if I thought someone needed one, I would call a priest.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

--

And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am

Online IXOYE

  • Site Supporter
  • High Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 922
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2012, 11:11:12 PM »
The Church has never had a 'everybody' approach to Sacraments.  Exorcism is a Sacrament: there is an invocation of God into a situation and a request for His specific intervention.

Not everyone offers the Gifts.
Not everyone teaches.
Not everyone preaches.

The Church has placed responsibility for these ministries under the bishops to prevent abuse and ensure that the people of God receive true blessings and not false signs.


Mark 9:38-41

38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
 
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.


Acts 19
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” 16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

In context, what do both of those verses mean? What did Jesus mean?

Just asking, I've always wondered

I believe the first one says that there are other groups who has the grace of God to exorcise demons in His Name.  Such as the case that we have exorsists today in the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.  The second one reminds us though that not anyone can just invoke the Name of Christ and carry out His ministry.  It is clear in Acts that those who try to exorcise were not Christians.  So there is a boundary to this, and not anyone can just do whatever they want and claim legitimacy.

It was nice to see on Discovery Channel's "Exorcist Files" an Orthodox priest - albeit for just a few minutes.

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,803
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2012, 11:20:15 PM »
I've witnessed an Orthodox  exorcism ritual... It's not something  for amateurs.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,068
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 03:28:55 AM »
As I come from charismatic church,in Charistmatic church ,it teaches that all Christians can cast out the demons in Jesus' name.But in Orthodoxy , only priest can do so.

Why only the priests can do the exorcism, but the other followers of Jesus can't? Did the church fathers only permit the priests to do the exorcism as well?

Just go to Pochaiv.

Online NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,300
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2012, 03:59:51 AM »
I've witnessed an Orthodox  exorcism ritual... It's not something  for amateurs.
Haven't all Orthodox?
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline MichaelArchangelos

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 04:59:56 AM »
I've witnessed an Orthodox  exorcism ritual... It's not something  for amateurs.

I'm guessing you're talking about an actual exorcism of a demon-possessed person, rather than the exorcisms performed at a Baptism. Am I right?

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,803
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 09:44:49 PM »
I've witnessed an Orthodox  exorcism ritual... It's not something  for amateurs.

I'm guessing you're talking about an actual exorcism of a demon-possessed person, rather than the exorcisms performed at a Baptism. Am I right?

Correct.... Scary stuff
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline walter1234

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 928
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 04:25:38 PM »
Charismatic Church also like to turn every bad thing as Evil Spirit , like spirit of hate, spirit of unfaithful, spirit of promiscuous,spirit of poverty,  spirit of greedy, spirit of anger, spirit of depression ,spirit of religion ,spirit of confusion,spirit of dirt,etc.

I often heard the workers and pastors to cast out these (evil) spirits in Jesus' name when I was in Charismatic Church.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 04:42:49 PM by walter1234 »

Offline FatherGiryus

  • You are being watched.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,122
Re: Only priest can cast out the demons in the name of Jesus?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2012, 11:52:18 AM »
We use a similar language, but when we speak of "Spirit of _______" it is not that this spirit brings that affliction, but rather it tempts us to accept such a condition.  This is a critical difference: many people who use this language about spirits assume that the spirit magically casts a spell on the person which automatically puts the person in their condition and that they are innocently afflicted.

The first step in Orthodox Christian exorcism is the willingness to say 'no' to the devils and their messages.  The next step is Confession of one's sins while being tempted by the demons' messages.  Then comes the actual exorcism.

Unless you are willing to take responsibility for your sins, no exorcism can be effective.  Why? Because the demons will continue to get you to say 'yes' and that's the real problem.

Most exorcisms are, in fact, dull.  They are not dramatic, and almost rote, but one must be careful in these situations not to become frustrated or bored so as to lose one's mindfulness that something very evil and very powerful is lying underneith the blanket of 'plausible deniability.'

Of course, it requires a lot of testing.  I was called in on a situation.  The woman was very convinced that she was being terrorized by a demon.  Every test I ran failed, and I was convinced that she was having mental issues (big hint: she refused to go see a doctor and get a medical clearance, which a priest ought to insist on if there is a suspected possession).  So, I said, "I have one last test for you."

Very dramatically, I put my hand on her head and said, "I will now pray the secret prayer!"  Then, silently, I began to recite 'Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star.'  She writhed like a snake and told me to stop, how the demon was being tormented by the prayer.

Then I said a real prayer for her healing, and stepped outside to tell the family that she needed psychiatric help, not mine.


Charismatic Church also like to turn every bad thing as Evil Spirit , like spirit of hate, spirit of unfaithful, spirit of promiscuous,spirit of poverty,  spirit of greedy, spirit of anger, spirit of depression ,spirit of religion ,spirit of confusion,spirit of dirt,etc.

I often heard the workers and pastors to cast out these (evil) spirits in Jesus' name when I was in Charismatic Church.
http://orthodoxyandrecovery.blogspot.com
The most dangerous thing about riding a tiger is the dismount.  - Indian proverb