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Author Topic: How orthodox Christian understand ' guidance by Holy Spirit'  (Read 861 times) Average Rating: 0
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walter1234
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« on: December 10, 2012, 01:08:36 AM »

In Protestant, there are various teachings and interpretation of Scritptures in different denominations. Each Individual Church in Protestant also has different faith and doctrines. They all claim that they and their teachings or interpretation of Scriptures are guided by Holy Spirit.

Of course , many of Protestant's teachings must be wrong and are not guided by Holy Spirit. 'Guidance of the Holy Spirit' has been abused by Protestant Christians, especially those in Charismatic and Pentecostal Church.

So, How do Orthodox Christians understand 'Guidance of the Holy Spirit' ?

How can we be guided by Holy Spirit? How can we know whether we are under the guidance of Holy Spirit or not?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 01:11:45 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 02:12:17 AM »

We can tell via Chrismation. We know that WE receive the Holy Spirit through OUR Baptism and Chrismation, and since Protestants do not have apostolic succession, they do not possess the authority to serve the Sacraments and thus cannot be guided by and/or dispense the Holy Spirit.
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walter1234
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« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 06:51:28 AM »

But Catholic Church also has Baptism and Chrismation....

Did all Christians in Book of Act , include St .Paul partake the Chrismation before they receive the holy spirit?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 06:57:02 AM by walter1234 » Logged
walter1234
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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 09:37:57 AM »

Is there any Church father or Church leaders in Orthodoxy teaching about 'the guidance of the Holy Spirit"?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 09:38:33 AM by walter1234 » Logged
walter1234
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 06:47:23 AM »

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John 16:13
13.Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


I still confuse about how Orthodox Church understand the guidance of Holy Spirit...

According to John16:13, Do God only guide the Orthodox Christians into all truth?

How can I know whether I am under the guidance of Holy Spirit or not?

Any Comment? Huh Huh
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 09:56:41 AM »

We do know where the Holy Spirit is very active, in the sacraments, especially baptism. However we also know God works with where we are at.  Do not forget the Holy Spirit is God and is not bound by our understanding.

Some Fathers on the Holy Sprirt

IRENAEUS
Against Heresies: Book V
Chapter VIII.—The gifts of the Holy Spirit which we receive prepare us for incorruption, render us spiritual, and separate us from carnal men.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vii.ix.html

Origen
Chapter III.—On the Holy Spirit.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.vi.v.ii.iii.html

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walter1234
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 01:39:26 PM »

We do know where the Holy Spirit is very active, in the sacraments, especially baptism. However we also know God works with where we are at.  Do not forget the Holy Spirit is God and is not bound by our understanding.

Some Fathers on the Holy Sprirt

IRENAEUS
Against Heresies: Book V
Chapter VIII.—The gifts of the Holy Spirit which we receive prepare us for incorruption, render us spiritual, and separate us from carnal men.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vii.ix.html

Origen
Chapter III.—On the Holy Spirit.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.vi.v.ii.iii.html


When I was in Protestant , I thought I was under the guidance of Holy Spirit. But now, I find many faiths that I hold in Protestant is wrong.

Now, I still don't know whether I am under the guidance of Holy spirit or not... Undecided

If I hear some voices , have some inspirations, etc.It seems that it is still difficult for me to identify whether these are the guidance of Holy Spirit and truely come from God or not....  Undecided

Thus, I want to know more about how Orthodoxy understand of ' the guidance of Holy Spirit'. But until now, I am still confuse about how Orthodoxy understand about it. Huh
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 01:43:13 PM by walter1234 » Logged
PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 01:42:54 PM »

We do know where the Holy Spirit is very active, in the sacraments, especially baptism. However we also know God works with where we are at.  Do not forget the Holy Spirit is God and is not bound by our understanding.

Some Fathers on the Holy Sprirt

IRENAEUS
Against Heresies: Book V
Chapter VIII.—The gifts of the Holy Spirit which we receive prepare us for incorruption, render us spiritual, and separate us from carnal men.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vii.ix.html

Origen
Chapter III.—On the Holy Spirit.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.vi.v.ii.iii.html


When I was in Protestant , I thought I was under the guidance of Holy Spirit. But now, I find many faiths that I hold in Protestant is wrong.

Now, I still don't know whether I am under the guidance of Holy spirit or not... Undecided Undecided

If I hear some voices , have some inspirations, etc.It seems that it is still difficult for me to identify whether these are the guidance of Holy Spirit and truely come from God or not....  Undecided Undecided
If you're hearing voices, they're probably not from the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 04:40:01 PM »

the closer u get to God (prayer and fasting and casting out all pride), the more your thoughts are close to God's thoughts.
so when you see a situation and you are close to God, you instinctively know what to do.
when your actions are guided by the advice in the Bible (spreading love, hope and joy), then this is guidance by the Holy Spirit.
it's not usually a warm, fuzzy feeling that you are 'right', it's a feeling of love for everyone (including your enemies) that makes you act kindly and never selfishly.
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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 05:30:44 PM »

The thread seems to be discussing two rather different questions: How did the Holy Spirit guide the church "into all truth"? And "How is a Christian personally guided by the Spirit in his own life?" I could ramble on about both, but as the question asks how Orthodox understand the matter, it would be out of place. Nonetheless, it seems appropriate to make the comment that these two questions need unravelling.
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« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 05:33:58 PM »

On a more serious note, my thoughts are that the Holy Spirit--if truly guiding us--would NOT lead us into division, confusion and/or total isolation. It is a common trend nowadays for Protestants to reject the Church or start their own Church on the grounds that "The Holy Spirit guided me", believing that guidance by the Holy Spirit is somehow different than being a part of the Church. I think that this is false. True guidance of the Holy Spirit would NOT lead us astray into division, nor lead us into new teachings, but would lead us into UNITY!--just as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I plead with you brethren by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment". If the Holy Spirit does not lead you into unity with the true Church, then it is not the Holy Spirit that is guiding you. Likewise, the Bible also teaches us not to formulate our own new doctrines and creeds on a whim, but to ADHERE to the traditions we were taught by St. Paul via both word and epistle. The Holy Spirit would not lead us into new teachings or weird modern doctrines, but would lead us into submission to the original teachings and doctrines that the Apostles delivered to us--which I am convinced are only found in the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 08:58:10 PM »

On a more serious note, my thoughts are that the Holy Spirit--if truly guiding us--would NOT lead us into division, confusion and/or total isolation. It is a common trend nowadays for Protestants to reject the Church or start their own Church on the grounds that "The Holy Spirit guided me", believing that guidance by the Holy Spirit is somehow different than being a part of the Church. I think that this is false. True guidance of the Holy Spirit would NOT lead us astray into division, nor lead us into new teachings, but would lead us into UNITY!--just as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I plead with you brethren by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment". If the Holy Spirit does not lead you into unity with the true Church, then it is not the Holy Spirit that is guiding you. Likewise, the Bible also teaches us not to formulate our own new doctrines and creeds on a whim, but to ADHERE to the traditions we were taught by St. Paul via both word and epistle. The Holy Spirit would not lead us into new teachings or weird modern doctrines, but would lead us into submission to the original teachings and doctrines that the Apostles delivered to us--which I am convinced are only found in the Orthodox Church.

Hmmmm this can be quite frightening, What spirit(s) then moves people to start new Chruchs with innovative doctrines? In your opinion can the Holy Spirit lead a person through another church to the true Church because this is what was needed to get them there?
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JamesR
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 02:42:45 AM »

What spirit(s) then moves people to start new Chruchs with innovative doctrines?

The spirit of Satan and rejection of God's truth

Quote
...In your opinion can the Holy Spirit lead a person through another church to the true Church because this is what was needed to get them there?

Maybe, but I don't know for certain
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walter1234
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 07:19:08 AM »

On a more serious note, my thoughts are that the Holy Spirit--if truly guiding us--would NOT lead us into division, confusion and/or total isolation. It is a common trend nowadays for Protestants to reject the Church or start their own Church on the grounds that "The Holy Spirit guided me", believing that guidance by the Holy Spirit is somehow different than being a part of the Church. I think that this is false. True guidance of the Holy Spirit would NOT lead us astray into division, nor lead us into new teachings, but would lead us into UNITY!--just as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I plead with you brethren by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment". If the Holy Spirit does not lead you into unity with the true Church, then it is not the Holy Spirit that is guiding you. Likewise, the Bible also teaches us not to formulate our own new doctrines and creeds on a whim, but to ADHERE to the traditions we were taught by St. Paul via both word and epistle. The Holy Spirit would not lead us into new teachings or weird modern doctrines, but would lead us into submission to the original teachings and doctrines that the Apostles delivered to us--which I am convinced are only found in the Orthodox Church.

That is exactly why I suspect the teaching of guidance of Holy Spirit in Protestant. In Protestant ,there are various teachings, interpretation of Scritptures, faith and doctrines in different denominations and even each Individual Church. Some of their faith and doctrines even contradict with each other. However, all of them claim that they and their teachings,interpretation of Scritptures, faith, doctrines are under the guidance of Holy Spirit.

And that why I want to know more about how Orthodox under the guidance of holy spirit. Jesus do promise that He would give us Holy spirit and holy spirit would bring us and the church into all truth.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 07:26:18 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 07:21:20 AM »

Hmmmm this can be quite frightening, What spirit(s) then moves people to start new Chruchs with innovative doctrines? In your opinion can the Holy Spirit lead a person through another church to the true Church because this is what was needed to get them there?

Personally I would say yes. Because we have freedom of choice the Holy Spirit would try to guide you from where ever you are if you are truly open and seeking truely wanting to be united to God.  The question is are we really open.  Not always a little voice gently guiding us but most time a aha moment of discernment.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 07:24:02 AM by soderquj » Logged

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