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yeshuaisiam
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« on: December 02, 2012, 07:42:52 PM »

I'd be curious just for some dialog... (nothing LOADED) or anything.
I'm just curious on LOGICAL refutation based on facts against things listed on this page.
Don't want to fight.  Don't want to insult.  I'm too old for one liners.  Just want to engage in dialog.

http://www.wnae.org/whatisnazarene.htm

What I am reading is there was much more than the "Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" in the beginnings.
I don't know everything of course, I only have what "THEY" have given me, and just want to talk.
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2012, 09:02:50 PM »

I knew someone from my old church who joined this "Nazarene" sect, and it led him to reject Christ and embrace Orthodox Judaism.
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2012, 09:45:27 PM »

I urge you and everyone else to read "Heresy of Orthodoxy" if you want to have a non-Orthodox source that confirms orthodoxy--that is, the "Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church."
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2012, 10:11:04 PM »

I'm sorry if my reply falls under any of the types of replies you were not wanting, but I'm just making an observation of what is written on their website.

"Nazarene Judaism is a spiritual renaissance, a revival, a return to the pure faith of first century Nazarenes."

"Today many of us are working to reconstruct the ancient sect of Nazarene Judaism."

It seems to me that they are at best, trying to create a historical reenactment of a movement, apart from any historical continuation of what came out of that original movement.
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2012, 12:28:16 AM »

Quote
THE COUNCIL OF NICEA

In 325 C.E. A Pagan Gentile named Constantine conqured Rome and made himself emperor. Constantine, although a Pagan himself, declared Christianity to be the Catholic (Latin: universal) religion, thus making Christianity the enforced state religion of the Roman empire. Constantine, who was an anti-Semite called the council of Nicea in 325 C.E. to standardize Christianity. Nazarenes were excluded from the meeting. Jewish practices were banned. For the first time Gentile Christianity officially labled the Nazarenes as apostates. From this time forward Nazarenes begin to be listed in the catalogs of apostate movements (the first of these to include the Nazarenes was Epiphanius's "Panarion" (around 370 C.E.).

St. Constantine did not make Christianity the "enforced state religion" - I believe his successor did.

And the Council of Nicaea did none of these things. It dealt with Arianism, and pastoral/disciplinary issues. Nothing to do with "Nazarenes."
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2012, 12:30:30 AM »

No, St. Thedosius did. ^
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 11:35:06 AM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 12:35:57 AM »

No, St. Thedosius did. ^

You are fairly new here, so perhaps you were not told, but we must put "Fr." and "St." and "Bp." and so forth in front of names when applicable. Be careful, I've been put on post moderation for not doing so before. Some of the mods are pretty quick with the trigger finger.
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 12:38:12 AM »

No, Thedosius did. ^

You are fairly new here, so perhaps you were not told, but we must put "Fr." and "St." and "Bp." and so forth in front of names when applicable. Be careful, I've been put on post moderation for not doing so before. Some of the mods are pretty quick with the trigger finger.

Was St. Theodosius ordained?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 11:34:28 AM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 12:40:33 AM »

No, Thedosius did. ^

You are fairly new here, so perhaps you were not told, but we must put "Fr." and "St." and "Bp." and so forth in front of names when applicable. Be careful, I've been put on post moderation for not doing so before. Some of the mods are pretty quick with the trigger finger.

Was St. Theodosius ordained?

He's a saint.
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« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 12:42:55 AM »

No, Thedosius did. ^

You are fairly new here, so perhaps you were not told, but we must put "Fr." and "St." and "Bp." and so forth in front of names when applicable. Be careful, I've been put on post moderation for not doing so before. Some of the mods are pretty quick with the trigger finger.

Was St. Theodosius ordained?

He's a saint.

First heard of that.

Me too. I am adding "St." to all instances. Thank you Asteriktos. Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 11:33:40 AM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 08:05:29 AM »

No, Thedosius did. ^

You are fairly new here, so perhaps you were not told, but we must put "Fr." and "St." and "Bp." and so forth in front of names when applicable. Be careful, I've been put on post moderation for not doing so before. Some of the mods are pretty quick with the trigger finger.

Was St. Theodosius ordained?

He's a saint.

First heard of that.

Feastday: January 17
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 11:31:29 AM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2012, 04:28:20 PM »

No, Thedosius did. ^

You are fairly new here, so perhaps you were not told, but we must put "Fr." and "St." and "Bp." and so forth in front of names when applicable. Be careful, I've been put on post moderation for not doing so before. Some of the mods are pretty quick with the trigger finger.

Was St. Theodosius ordained?

He's a saint.

First heard of that.

Feastday: January 17

Nothing on my calendar, nothing on wikipedia and nothing on pravoslavie.ru.

edit:

he's listed as a Saint on pravoslavie.ru in one place however is absent from their calendar.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 04:29:42 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2012, 06:49:29 PM »

From the days.pravoslavie.ru calendar:

Феодосий Великий, император Январь 17

From the Greek synaxarion for January 17:

Ὁ Ἅγιος Θεοδόσιος ὁ Μέγας ὁ βασιλεύς

St Theodosius the Great is also in various English-language calendars, including that of the OCA.
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2012, 07:53:10 PM »

So much for wikipedia... Wink

Thanks, LBK
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2012, 08:34:25 PM »

From the days.pravoslavie.ru calendar:

Феодосий Великий, император Январь 17

Yet he is not listed on January 17 page.
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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2012, 08:43:50 PM »

From the days.pravoslavie.ru calendar:

Феодосий Великий, император Январь 17

Yet he is not listed on January 17 page.

Maybe not. Do you have or use the Menologion 3.0 application?

He is listed there for quick reference.
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2012, 10:13:29 PM »

From the days.pravoslavie.ru calendar:

Феодосий Великий, император Январь 17

Yet he is not listed on January 17 page.

Stop being so obstinate. This is the list of saints called Theodosius (Feodosy) on the abovementioned website. I have bolded Emperor St Theodosius the Great's entry:

Феодосий, прп. Март 8
Феодосий, мч. Март 14
Феодосий Январь 21
Феодосий, мч. Апрель 13
Феодосий (Соболев), прмч., архимандрит Январь 26 (Новомуч.) Сентябрь 17
Феодосий (Ганицкий), исповедник, епископ, Коломенский Январь 26 (Новомуч.) Апрель 20
Феодосий, прп., игумен, Триглийский Январь 1
Феодосий (Болдырев), сщмч., иерей Январь 26 (Новомуч.) Декабрь 16
Феодосий (Беленький), сщмч., иерей Январь 26 (Новомуч.) Декабрь 29
Феодосий (Александров), сщмч., иеродиакон Январь 26 (Новомуч.) Август 28
Феодосий, митрополит, Трапезундский Январь 11
Феодосий Антиохийский, прп. Январь 11
Феодосий Болгарин, Терновский, прп. Февраль 17
Феодосий Бразский, сщмч., митрополит Сентябрь 22 (Имя сщмч. Феодосия внесено в месяцеслов согласно определению Священного Синода Русской Православной Церкви от 21 августа 2007 года. Прославление совершено Румынской Православной Церковью.)
Феодосий Великий, император Январь 17
Феодосий Великий, Киновиарх, прп. Январь 11 (общих житий начальник)
Феодосий Глушицкий, прп. Май 13 Октябрь 12
Феодосий Едесский, столпник Июль 9
Феодосий Кавказский
Феодосий Младший, император
Феодосий Новый, прп., врач Август 7
Феодосий Новый, царь Июль 29
Феодосий Печерский Август 28 (Печер.(Д)) Август 14 (Перенесение мощей) Май 3 Сентябрь 2 (общих житий начальник)
Феодосий Сийский, прп. Октябрь 29
Феодосий Сирмийский, мч. Март 27
Феодосий Терновский, прп. Ноябрь 27
Феодосий Тотемский, Суморин, игумен Январь 28
Феодосий Череповецкий, прп. Сентябрь 25
Феодосий Череповецкий, прп. Ноябрь 26
Феодосий Черниговский, архиепископ Сентябрь 9 (Обретение и перенесение мощей) Февраль 5

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« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 10:17:44 PM »

I know he is there BUT he is not there: http://days.pravoslavie.ru/Days/20120117.htm
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« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2012, 10:42:27 PM »

I know he is there BUT he is not there: http://days.pravoslavie.ru/Days/20120117.htm

Now you are really being stubborn. You stated earlier that you did not think he was a saint, then, when proof of his being so is provided, and from a variety of sources (Greek, Slavic, etc), you persist in your stubbornness.

So what if St Theodosius is not listed on that particular page from that site? Does this make him less of a saint? Honstly, what's your problem, Michal?
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« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 10:46:36 PM »

I can provide many sources when he is not listed as a Saint. As SC showed his sainthood is not universally known. Why is that?
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« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2012, 10:56:20 PM »

I can provide many sources when he is not listed as a Saint. As SC showed his sainthood is not universally known. Why is that?

I have provided evidence from a respected Russian source, from the Greek synaxarion, and from English-language sources, such as the OCA (originally of Russian tradition), which all list him as a saint, as does the ROCOR liturgical calendar I have. I can also confirm that the English-language St Herman's Calendar, produced by a monastery under the omophor of the Serbian church, also lists him.

There are great numbers of saints who are not well known among the general population. Hardly surprising, as even a reasonably comprehensive liturgical calendar would list tens of thousands of saints. Knowing of them all would be quite an achievement.
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« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2012, 11:08:31 PM »

Nothing on my calendar, nothing on wikipedia and nothing on pravoslavie.ru


From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Theodosius

Quote
He is recognized by the Eastern Orthodox Church as Saint Theodosius. He defeated the usurpers Magnus Maximus and Eugenius and fostered the destruction of some prominent pagan temples: the Serapeum in Alexandria, the Temple of Apollo in Delphi, and the Vestal Virgins in Rome.
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« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2012, 11:14:54 PM »

He is also on the calendar of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.

http://goarch.org/chapel/dateceleb_view?m=1&d=17&y=2012
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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2012, 11:16:36 PM »

I have provided evidence from a respected Russian source,

That source does not put him into their calendar.

Quote
There are great numbers of saints who are not well known among the general population. Hardly surprising, as even a reasonably comprehensive liturgical calendar would list tens of thousands of saints. Knowing of them all would be quite an achievement.

He is well known about. However he's not always listed as a Saint.

He is not listed on pravoslavie.ru calendar, Polish Church calendar, Russian wikipedia does not describe him as an Orthodox Saint (or OO, or RC one), he is not listed here: http://www.pravmir.ru/muzhskie-pravoslavnye-imena/ ...

I'm not arguing he is not a Saint. But why haven't I known about that quite important fact about him?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 11:19:48 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2012, 11:22:19 PM »

Another Greek source which lists St. Theodosius, both on the calendar and individually:
http://www.synaxarion.gr/gr/m/1/d/17/sxsaintlist.aspx
http://www.synaxarion.gr/gr/sid/1775/sxsaintinfo.aspx
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2012, 11:25:18 PM »

I urge you and everyone else to read "Heresy of Orthodoxy" if you want to have a non-Orthodox source that confirms orthodoxy--that is, the "Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church."

Will do brother.  Thank you for the suggestion.
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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2012, 11:26:56 PM »

St. Theodosius is listed on the St. Hilarion Calendar:

http://allmercifulsavior.com/Calendar/Jan29-Feb1.pdf
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« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2012, 08:32:29 AM »

Live by the Internet...

Hey, Mike, ever consider the saint's not being shown on certain sites is just BAD software or database management?  Wink
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« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2012, 08:33:45 AM »

Didn't mean to cause such a kerfuffle and taking things so off topic...
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« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2012, 08:49:50 AM »

Quote
He is not listed on pravoslavie.ru calendar, Polish Church calendar, Russian wikipedia does not describe him as an Orthodox Saint (or OO, or RC one), he is not listed here: http://www.pravmir.ru/muzhskie-pravoslavnye-imena/ ...

Here's part of the entry from Russian wikipedia. Note the bolded part:

Торжество христианства

Феодосий порвал с установленной императором Константином религиозной системой, которая в целом сохраняла нейтралитет государства по отношению к разнообразным культам и исповеданиям граждан империи.[25] При Феодосии догматы христианства начали фиксироваться не в результате свободного обсуждения в церковных кругах, а утверждались правительственными указами.

Император Феодосий канонизирован в лике святого, день памяти в православной церкви отмечается 17 (30) января.

(Emperor Theodosius has been canonised to the rank of saint, his feastday in the Orthodox Church is January 17/30)

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Феодосий_I_Великий

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