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Author Topic: do you spank your kids?  (Read 8061 times) Average Rating: 0
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choy
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« Reply #180 on: January 19, 2013, 03:29:04 AM »

Isaiah 53:5

Wow!  Okay, I fold!  Kids, do what you want now!  Don't clean up your toys, shout at mommy all you like!  Throw your milk on the floor, watch TV all you like!
"Chastise" can mean reprimand without caning.

You're obsessed with caning.  You do know that we are talking about spanking here, right?
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« Reply #181 on: January 19, 2013, 03:33:47 AM »

Isaiah 53:5

Wow!  Okay, I fold!  Kids, do what you want now!  Don't clean up your toys, shout at mommy all you like!  Throw your milk on the floor, watch TV all you like!
"Chastise" can mean reprimand without caning.

You're obsessed with caning.  You do know that we are talking about spanking here, right?
No. You quoted verses about "beating" with a "rod" and "scourging." We must find how to interpret these verses in a way consistent with Christ's command "Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful."

I also changed my last message.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 03:36:20 AM by rakovsky » Logged
choy
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« Reply #182 on: January 19, 2013, 03:40:16 AM »

Isaiah 53:5

Wow!  Okay, I fold!  Kids, do what you want now!  Don't clean up your toys, shout at mommy all you like!  Throw your milk on the floor, watch TV all you like!
"Chastise" can mean reprimand without caning.

You're obsessed with caning.  You do know that we are talking about spanking here, right?
No. You quoted verses about "beating" with a "rod" and "scourging." We must find how to interpret these words in a way consistent with Christ's teaching "Be merciful as your Father is merciful to you."

I really don't see the connection.  You are taking verses that has nothing to do with childrearing, against verses that are about child rearing.  Besides, I was raised by a military father and only recently I found out I have ADD.  If my dad didn't go all-"Proverbs" on me, I can guarantee you I'd be jobless and in prison right now.  So you can throw then entire Bible in my face, I can guarantee you that spanking does work and if all parents do it (in the right way) then there will be less problems in the world today.  Not just because 2 or 3 dads beat their kids to death out of the thousands who spank, does not mean every dad (or mom) who spank their kids are child beaters.  Now THAT is casting the first stone, because that is being judgemental.
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« Reply #183 on: January 19, 2013, 04:24:56 AM »

Quote
Makes sense. They are quick to dish out whippings to kids one third their own size, and if someone else has a conflict with them, they will react in the same way three times as strong, maybe punch you out or something, and think it's cool. After all, whipping little kids is a way for them to release their sociopathic rage bottled up, and they've had many years of being treated this way themselves.

Too bad they can't just go to the gym and take antibiotics to treat the worms/demons in their brains. Then see a Finnish priest who will tell them the beatings done to them were wrong. Then relax with some Comedy Central.
I have read some convoluted and torturous codswallop in my day, but this rates in the top ten.  Where do you conjure up such preposterous and ridiculous ideas?
You mean the idea that abusive parents have demons or treatable mental illness?
I mean all of it.  You are terribly detached from the truth.  You aren’t even in the ball park.  The percentage of people who spank their kids, to which your assertion applies, is so infinitesimal, it’s embarrassing.

You attempt to proclaim people who spank their children properly, are in the same category as those who abuse and beat their children.  Then you continue to state those same parents suffer from mental illness.  Your statement is, and I apologize for my shortness, asinine.

There is a big difference between disagreeing with/not utilizing spanking and attempting to demonize those who do with wild and irrational accusations.
Tweety was talking about people who "physically attack" children as punishment. When I think of a "physical attack" punishment on a child, I think of a very painful act that comes on quickly.

Yes, if a person's way is to be quickly angry and is quick to judge and punish little children in a hard, painful way, it is from demons, mental illness, or some other mental or spiritual problem the person has.

He seems to imply a "physcial attack" is a spanking.  The "first stone".
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« Reply #184 on: January 19, 2013, 04:36:41 AM »

Quote
You're obsessed with caning.  You do know that we are talking about spanking here, right?
Quote
No. You quoted verses about "beating" with a "rod" and "scourging." We must find how to interpret these words in a way consistent with Christ's teaching "Be merciful as your Father is merciful to you."
I really don't see the connection.
The connection is that the Old Testament, including Proverbs, has verses about stoning people and caning children. It's wrong to use these verses as Christian justifications to hit children, because Christ stopped it Himself: when someone was going to follow the old Testament rule about stoning people.

Jesus' reason for stopping the stoning was because No one is without sin. This is one of Christ's main ideas: to forgive people like God our Father removes punishment from us. That's why we pray it in the Lord's prayer.

Quote
Besides, I was raised by a military father and only recently I found out I have ADD. If my dad didn't go all-"Proverbs" on me, I can guarantee you I'd be jobless and in prison right now.  
I am glad things turned out well for you. But you can't guarantee they wouldn't have otherwise, since you did not ascend the other path. Someone can also go through a tough boot camp experience like some children do without painful bottom smackings being allowed.  


Quote
So you can throw then entire Bible in my face, I can guarantee you that spanking does work and if all parents do it (in the right way) then there will be less problems in the world today.  
No. Sweden and Greece do not have spanking and they are OK.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 04:40:24 AM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #185 on: January 19, 2013, 04:39:38 AM »

He seems to imply a "physcial attack" is a spanking.  The "first stone".
No stones. No spanking. No physical attacks. Mercy. Peace. Love.
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« Reply #186 on: January 19, 2013, 01:38:14 PM »

Quote
You're obsessed with caning.  You do know that we are talking about spanking here, right?
Quote
No. You quoted verses about "beating" with a "rod" and "scourging." We must find how to interpret these words in a way consistent with Christ's teaching "Be merciful as your Father is merciful to you."
I really don't see the connection.
The connection is that the Old Testament, including Proverbs, has verses about stoning people and caning children. It's wrong to use these verses as Christian justifications to hit children, because Christ stopped it Himself: when someone was going to follow the old Testament rule about stoning people.

Jesus' reason for stopping the stoning was because No one is without sin. This is one of Christ's main ideas: to forgive people like God our Father removes punishment from us. That's why we pray it in the Lord's prayer.

Quote
Besides, I was raised by a military father and only recently I found out I have ADD. If my dad didn't go all-"Proverbs" on me, I can guarantee you I'd be jobless and in prison right now.  
I am glad things turned out well for you. But you can't guarantee they wouldn't have otherwise, since you did not ascend the other path. Someone can also go through a tough boot camp experience like some children do without painful bottom smackings being allowed.  


Quote
So you can throw then entire Bible in my face, I can guarantee you that spanking does work and if all parents do it (in the right way) then there will be less problems in the world today.  
No. Sweden and Greece do not have spanking and they are OK.


Then how come most greeks spank their kids? greece as a government has prohibited. People however are by nature followers of what is illegal. Therefore they do it.
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« Reply #187 on: January 19, 2013, 01:41:53 PM »

He seems to imply a "physcial attack" is a spanking.  The "first stone".
No stones. No spanking. No physical attacks. Mercy. Peace. Love.

Agreed. But most people will ignore you, because their hearts have been given poison by their parents.
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« Reply #188 on: January 19, 2013, 08:49:35 PM »

He seems to imply a "physcial attack" is a spanking.  The "first stone".
No stones. No spanking. No physical attacks. Mercy. Peace. Love.

I wish the entire world felt this way, but the reality is, it doesn’t.

Another reality is, this has nothing to do with spanking a disobedient child.
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« Reply #189 on: January 19, 2013, 08:53:22 PM »

He seems to imply a "physcial attack" is a spanking.  The "first stone".
No stones. No spanking. No physical attacks. Mercy. Peace. Love.

Agreed. But most people will ignore you, because their hearts have been given poison by their parents.

I believe this is the point of the conversation I say goodbye and leave you to your incorrect beliefs. 
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rakovsky
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« Reply #190 on: January 22, 2013, 06:27:23 AM »

He seems to imply a "physcial attack" is a spanking.  The "first stone".
No stones. No spanking. No physical attacks. Mercy. Peace. Love.

Agreed. But most people will ignore you, because their hearts have been given poison by their parents.
Tweety, what about when parents have used soap on their children? The soap has medical warnings that it is not to be consumed. It is actually a poison. Like hitting children with objects, this was more common in previous decades, but the car company Chevy made a joke of this in a recent commercial. It is not really funny or healthy practice though, because people can become very sick from it.

The same kind of claims can be made about soaping children's mouths, right? And yet this is a poisonous practice.
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Kerdy
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« Reply #191 on: January 22, 2013, 06:37:56 AM »

He seems to imply a "physcial attack" is a spanking.  The "first stone".
No stones. No spanking. No physical attacks. Mercy. Peace. Love.

Agreed. But most people will ignore you, because their hearts have been given poison by their parents.
Tweety, what about when parents have used soap on their children? The soap has medical warnings that it is not to be consumed. It is actually a poison. Like hitting children with objects, this was more common in previous decades, but the car company Chevy made a joke of this in a recent commercial. It is not really funny or healthy practice though, because people can become very sick from it.

The same kind of claims can be made about soaping children's mouths, right? And yet this is a poisonous practice.
And what about those evil parents who let their children go outside to play in the dangers of sunlight, probably hoping they develop melanoma so they don’t have to support them any longer. 

Or those demon possessed parents who feed their children food, knowing that food causes health issues down the road, like cholesterol and all kinds of additives used to fertilize vegetables and put in the feed of animals. 

Even worse are those mentally unstable parents who don’t allow their kids access to the internet and homeschool them because they want to keep them uneducated and submissive, making it easier control them and able to control them longer. 

I think we should start a campaign against parents.  It’s obvious they don’t know what they are doing and children know what’s good for them much better than adults with years of experience.
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« Reply #192 on: January 22, 2013, 07:25:23 AM »

Checking in to see if people are still going on about the virtues of hitting kids.

Hoping that good taste would prevail, I thought maybe this thread wandered from the OP.

Of course this thread won't.
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« Reply #193 on: January 22, 2013, 07:31:29 AM »

Checking in to see if people are still going on about the virtues of hitting kids.

Hoping that good taste would prevail, I thought maybe this thread wandered from the OP.

Of course this thread won't.
With Kerdy's posts, I wonder if that's who you quoted in your sig.
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« Reply #194 on: January 22, 2013, 07:33:18 AM »

Checking in to see if people are still going on about the virtues of hitting kids.

Hoping that good taste would prevail, I thought maybe this thread wandered from the OP.

Of course this thread won't.
With Kerdy's posts, I wonder if that's who you quoted in your sig.

It was a dumb and obvious thing (the point of the .sig). But it was happening like crazy a few weeks ago. I was going nuts. Nothing to do with Kerdy per se, but you'll have to ask him.
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« Reply #195 on: January 30, 2013, 07:37:23 PM »

FWIW, I have spanked one of my daughters once because she ran across the road and was nearly hit by a car (glory to God, he wasn't speeding and saw her so slowed down). While I chose not to/didn't have to spank my children, some kids are just more challenging and different kids responding to different parenting styles. As long as a smack is done for discipline and not out of anger or sadism, I won't judge as I've not been in that position as a mother myself.
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« Reply #196 on: January 30, 2013, 08:02:23 PM »

The connection is that the Old Testament, including Proverbs, has verses about stoning people and caning children. It's wrong to use these verses as Christian justifications to hit children, because Christ stopped it Himself: when someone was going to follow the old Testament rule about stoning people.

Jesus' reason for stopping the stoning was because No one is without sin. This is one of Christ's main ideas: to forgive people like God our Father removes punishment from us. That's why we pray it in the Lord's prayer.

I don't see the connection between stoning and spanking.  Stoning ends ones life, thus no more opportunity to reform.  Spanking is meant for someone to realize the gravity of the error they committed and ensures that message is well received not just by logic but by the language of the body.  The child spanked is then, hopefully, led to the correct path, that is reformed (or formed).  One who is stonned cannot reform.

Apples and oranges here.

I am glad things turned out well for you. But you can't guarantee they wouldn't have otherwise, since you did not ascend the other path. Someone can also go through a tough boot camp experience like some children do without painful bottom smackings being allowed.

The thing is, even if my dad is a tough cookie, he did everything because he loves us and wants us to be good, upstanding people when we grow up.  Yes there were times I did resent him, but at the end of it because he did everything in love that fact is not lost on me.  He was never the type who came home one day and beat the hell out of me because he just felt like it.  When I get something it is because I did something wrong.  Always.  I can't remember even one instance that he smacked my behind or screamed at me just because.  And he always tells my why I got punished.  I think that is important.  It is not just being punished, but the instruction that comes with it.

No. Sweden and Greece do not have spanking and they are OK.

Are you sure?  I know some Greeks who do spank.
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« Reply #197 on: January 31, 2013, 12:29:10 AM »

Spanking is a very important part of child training.

The scriptures tell us to 'train up our children in the Lord'.

If a child is unable to 'honor his/her father and mother' by obeying them, then it is the duty of the parent to spank them in order for them to understand their boundaries.

In willful defiance, it is the duty of the parent to spank.  I believe part of the reason the world is so messed up today is because parents do not spank their children.  Your children will love you for keeping them in line.  Your children will love you because ultimately you set boundaries and learned 'you were not your own'.   If a child is very weak willed, perhaps, but most children need spankings to establish boundaries.
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« Reply #198 on: January 31, 2013, 06:51:21 PM »

Joe Jackson, father of Michael Jackson and the other Jacksons, certainly didn't spare the rod:

"Joe Jackson’s role in developing the Jackson’s musical legacy has always taken a back seat to his notorious reputation as a parent.
....
“Yeah, they are too soft. One of the reasons I say that is because kids nowadays are killing their parents in some cases,” Jackson said. “Let’s get into this ‘beating’ thing. There’s no such thing as ‘beating a kid.’ You whip them or punish them over something they did, and they will remember that. And they’ll remember it in such a way that they won’t do it again. That’s the way I was.”"
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« Reply #199 on: January 31, 2013, 06:57:37 PM »

Time outs are a very important part of child training.

The scriptures tell us to 'train up our children in the Lord'.

If a child is unable to 'honor his/her father and mother' by obeying them, then it is the duty of the parent to give them time outs in order for them to understand their boundaries.

In willful defiance, it is the duty of the parent to give time outs.  I believe part of the reason the world is so messed up today is because parents do not give time outs to their children.  Your children will love you for keeping them in line.  Your children will love you because ultimately you set boundaries and learned 'you were not your own'.   If a child is very weak willed, perhaps, but most children need time outs to establish boundaries.
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« Reply #200 on: January 31, 2013, 07:03:37 PM »

Spanking is a very important part of child training.

The scriptures tell us to 'train up our children in the Lord'.

If a child is unable to 'honor his/her father and mother' by obeying them, then it is the duty of the parent to spank them in order for them to understand their boundaries.

In willful defiance, it is the duty of the parent to spank.  I believe part of the reason the world is so messed up today is because parents do not spank their children.  Your children will love you for keeping them in line.  Your children will love you because ultimately you set boundaries and learned 'you were not your own'.   If a child is very weak willed, perhaps, but most children need spankings to establish boundaries.


+1

I think one of the problems in the world today is we are so absolutist in so many things.  Just because one parent abused his/her child, then all parents shouldn't spank.  Just because we have one bad example we apply it to everyone.  Which souldn't be the case.  We know in our faith that we always tell people to "go talkt to their priest" because every situation is unique, it is different.  So why do we look at spanking as if it is not unique, that each case is not different?  Why do we speak as if all parents who spank their kids are blood thirsty maniacs who just want to hurt their kids?  Just because there's one or two cases that turned out that way?

As I said earlier in this thread, spanking also teaches us as parents.  Because we don't want to hurt our kids, so we learn to control our own emotions when dealing with our kids.  We learn to put righteousness in front of our own emotions and learn when to spank and when not to.  Just because someone, somewhere is a failure as a parent, doesn't mean that we are too.  I beleive the success stories of spanking outweigh the abuse cases.  But of course you don't see a frontpage story on some billionaire who became successful because of his/her parents' discipline.  We only so those cases that fail.  But that shouldn't deter us when we know better.  Their failure is not our failure and we can learn through their failure so that we can avoid our failure.
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« Reply #201 on: January 31, 2013, 07:07:43 PM »

Yes I did, and all three turned out quite well.  Personally, I really don't care whether you are for or against the practice.  I just hope that I don't have to shoot one of your kids one day because you didn't do your job raising them.  How is that for an opinion.

Mr. Bombastic!  Smiley  This reminded me of a story a friend from work once told me.  His wife and two girls were at a McDonald's once when one of the girls was throwing a hissy-fit because she didn't get some pie.  His wife, who really is a patient woman, after enduring 20 min of screaming a crying finally had enough.  She bent her daughter over her knee and spanked her a few times.  Right about then an officer walked in.  Seeing the apprehension in the mothers' face, he said (paraphrasing), "Either you spank them now, or I'll lock 'em up later."  

Now, for those who are against spanking, you're right in saying there are other ways to administer punishment.  But spanking, when done right (not out of anger) is a viable option.  And there IS a major difference between Spanking and Beating.  
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« Reply #202 on: January 31, 2013, 11:15:22 PM »

No. Sweden and Greece do not have spanking and they are OK.

Yes.  Greece is all about discipline and order.  Let me know all about Greece when they can stand on their own two feet.
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« Reply #203 on: January 31, 2013, 11:31:01 PM »

Btw, yeshuaisiam, my apologies if my above post came across as snarky or a parody. I was just trying to demonstrate that I could make the same points (and would, for the most part), but use a form of discipline other than spanking. Teaching boundaries and discipline does not depend on one particular form of punishment or correction.
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