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Author Topic: Just a random act of kindness  (Read 3479 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« on: November 30, 2012, 11:40:35 AM »


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5irKI-RDlKQUI00O0TVR-KOY-KJdA?docId=34fb43ea5aa04610881aaf5d606acf0d
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2012, 03:46:43 PM »

When I was watching this on the news, I swear I saw Christ in both the police officer and the homeless man. 

What a blessed moment.
How beautiful. 

Glory to God in the Highest and Peace and Good Will to all men.
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2012, 03:50:51 PM »

God bless him. Wow, this is so amazing  Cry
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2012, 05:34:39 PM »



What he did is great....and I can only wish we saw more of this.

I can't help but ponder the enormous reaction it has gotten all over the Web and other media sources.

This was one man, helping one other man.

The affect it has had on people actually says a lot about our current society.

Being "nice" to someone really shouldn't be such a novelty.

Imagine, if we were all so helpful and selfless - all the time, this would just be another boring blip on the screen.

I wish it were so.

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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2012, 05:40:12 PM »



What he did is great....and I can only wish we saw more of this.

I can't help but ponder the enormous reaction it has gotten all over the Web and other media sources.

This was one man, helping one other man.

The affect it has had on people actually says a lot about our current society.

Being "nice" to someone really shouldn't be such a novelty
.

Imagine, if we were all so helpful and selfless - all the time, this would just be another boring blip on the screen.

I wish it were so.



**like**
(bold and blue, mine)
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2012, 05:51:00 PM »



What he did is great....and I can only wish we saw more of this.

I can't help but ponder the enormous reaction it has gotten all over the Web and other media sources.

This was one man, helping one other man.

The affect it has had on people actually says a lot about our current society.

Being "nice" to someone really shouldn't be such a novelty.

Imagine, if we were all so helpful and selfless - all the time, this would just be another boring blip on the screen.

I wish it were so.



Same here.
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2012, 05:56:08 PM »

Nice cops apparently do exits  angel

Awesome thing of the cop to do.
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2012, 09:22:38 PM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 09:23:42 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2012, 02:33:20 AM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.
Ah, yes, well we all can't fix the whole world in one fell swoop.

Nice touch that the officer stooped down to put the socks and boots on the man for him.

Btw, you might have noticed, they are rather short of homes in NYC at the moment.
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2012, 02:46:55 AM »

I don't know why there always has to be an argument in every thread...

Anyway, this is a wonderful thing. Like Liza, I wish it weren't newsworthy, but maybe by being newsworthy it will eventually become less so, in a good way. If even 10% of the people who see the story are inspired to act similarly, then the world will be that much better. And really, looked at from another angle, I'd much rather have stories like this one than to be insulted with a never-ending parade of garbage "news" about what army generals and tabloid celebrities have been doing with their genitalia lately.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2012, 02:52:24 AM »

I don't know why there always has to be an argument in every thread...

Anyway, this is a wonderful thing. Like Liza, I wish it weren't newsworthy, but maybe by being newsworthy it will eventually become less so, in a good way. If even 10% of the people who see the story are inspired to act similarly, then the world will be that much better. And really, looked at from another angle, I'd much rather have stories like this one than to be insulted with a never-ending parade of garbage "news" about what army generals and tabloid celebrities have been doing with their genitalia lately.
Indeed!

There's a goofy insurance comercial where someone does the right thing, someone notices it, and does another right thing and so on.  Hopefully this is real life.

An important element of this story is that the officer didn't expect any of this.  Had the tourist not happened to have overheard the conversation and decided to snap the phone photo, it would have been known only to God.  And the homeless man.

Liza is correct as always on these things.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 02:53:00 AM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2012, 03:00:05 AM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.

Well he's not entitled to a home, but hey here are some socks and boots just incase those feet get frozen! Have a nice day sir.
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2012, 10:11:04 AM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.

Settle down Scrooge. Smiley It was a charitable and honorable thing to do. I don't know where I'd be if not for seemingly small gifts from others, but there's a good chance I wouldn't be posting on this forum right now.
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2012, 10:22:52 AM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.
Why don't you go give a homeless man your HOME.

Feel free to pontificate from hypocritical perch now.
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2012, 10:39:10 AM »

"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'"- Matthew 25:40
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2012, 11:07:49 AM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.
Ah, yes, well we all can't fix the whole world in one fell swoop.

Nice touch that the officer stooped down to put the socks and boots on the man for him.

Btw, you might have noticed, they are rather short of homes in NYC at the moment.

Not really. There is always the floor. Couch etc.

Can see where you come from on this whole "personal charity" issue.
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2012, 11:08:27 AM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.
Why don't you go give a homeless man your HOME.

Feel free to pontificate from hypocritical perch now.

I do often.

Continue.

EDIT: And what I do is not relevant to this. It has to do with the ideological structure of "charity". Even my sharing my very small apartment with others is nothing. Personal charity gets us nowhere. And when doing something as small as handing out shoes is worldwide news, in a certain sense I guess it might good news as the petite bourgeoisie notion of helping the less fortunate has to come nearly to its end and perhaps we can move on to real solutions.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 11:12:01 AM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2012, 11:15:27 AM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.

Settle down Scrooge. Smiley It was a charitable and honorable thing to do. I don't know where I'd be if not for seemingly small gifts from others, but there's a good chance I wouldn't be posting on this forum right now.

Perhaps, but you absolutely wouldn't be here without huge gifts from others.

The problem here isn't whether giving some guy without shoes is right or wrong (it really isn't a moral category actually) but whether we should be critical of such moments when they are blown out of proportion to their ability to change and how do such overreactions allow ideology to maintain its grip on us.
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« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2012, 11:21:58 AM »

I don't have a photos of such moments, but I live in one more the most depressed parts of the city and the poor do this for each other every day. How else would they get by?

And yes on the weekends and holidays the extremely entitled come down during daylight in droves to "help" out.

And yet the fundamental nature and degree of poverty and suffering hasn't changed much.

So maybe this photo warms the cockles of the hearts of those who live in bubbles where they either never see homeless people, are afraid to help a homeless person (take them into their home), and this gives them "hope" and they can act via support of this officer.

Without really questioning the sanity of a system to where anyone can be without shoes next to a shoe store in first the place.

Carry on.

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« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2012, 11:28:53 AM »

I don't know why there always has to be an argument in every thread...

Anyway, this is a wonderful thing. Like Liza, I wish it weren't newsworthy, but maybe by being newsworthy it will eventually become less so, in a good way. If even 10% of the people who see the story are inspired to act similarly, then the world will be that much better. And really, looked at from another angle, I'd much rather have stories like this one than to be insulted with a never-ending parade of garbage "news" about what army generals and tabloid celebrities have been doing with their genitalia lately.
Indeed!

There's a goofy insurance comercial where someone does the right thing, someone notices it, and does another right thing and so on.  Hopefully this is real life.

It's not and you know it. This is what ideology is here people.

It is a form of denial.

And yet the unfound reality and "hope" is what so many cling to especially in this season when a lot of fund will go into the purchases the more superfluous of things while others barely get in the wealthiest and most superlative in all things country on the planet.

Now people cannot shoot whatever criticism against me as they wish.

And to the degree it is true that I don't give everything away, proves my point.

No one person can change this.

And goodness isn't catching.

So don't let such moments as noted in this thread do what they tend to: pull one into a of hope and trust in your fellow man and perhaps yourself.





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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2012, 11:33:53 AM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.
Why don't you go give a homeless man your HOME.

Feel free to pontificate from hypocritical perch now.

I do often.

Continue.

EDIT: And what I do is not relevant to this. It has to do with the ideological structure of "charity". Even my sharing my very small apartment with others is nothing. Personal charity gets us nowhere. And when doing something as small as handing out shoes is worldwide news, in a certain sense I guess it might good news as the petite bourgeoisie notion of helping the less fortunate has to come nearly to its end and perhaps we can move on to real solutions.
I'm sure you do. Roll Eyes

And now personal charity is "nothing".

You can't even acknowledge this simple act of kindness without disparaging it in some way reveals the heart of a true misanthrope.
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2012, 11:51:21 AM »

I don't know why there always has to be an argument in every thread...

Anyway, this is a wonderful thing. Like Liza, I wish it weren't newsworthy, but maybe by being newsworthy it will eventually become less so, in a good way. If even 10% of the people who see the story are inspired to act similarly, then the world will be that much better. And really, looked at from another angle, I'd much rather have stories like this one than to be insulted with a never-ending parade of garbage "news" about what army generals and tabloid celebrities have been doing with their genitalia lately.
Indeed!

There's a goofy insurance comercial where someone does the right thing, someone notices it, and does another right thing and so on.  Hopefully this is real life.

It's not and you know it. This is what ideology is here people.

It is a form of denial.

And yet the unfound reality and "hope" is what so many cling to especially in this season when a lot of fund will go into the purchases the more superfluous of things while others barely get in the wealthiest and most superlative in all things country on the planet.

Now people cannot shoot whatever criticism against me as they wish.

And to the degree it is true that I don't give everything away, proves my point.

No one person can change this.

And goodness isn't catching.

So don't let such moments as noted in this thread do what they tend to: pull one into a of hope and trust in your fellow man and perhaps yourself.

I don't have a photos of such moments, but I live in one more the most depressed parts of the city and the poor do this for each other every day. How else would they get by?

And yes on the weekends and holidays the extremely entitled come down during daylight in droves to "help" out.

And yet the fundamental nature and degree of poverty and suffering hasn't changed much.

So maybe this photo warms the cockles of the hearts of those who live in bubbles where they either never see homeless people, are afraid to help a homeless person (take them into their home), and this gives them "hope" and they can act via support of this officer.

Without really questioning the sanity of a system to where anyone can be without shoes next to a shoe store in first the place.

Carry on.


Why don't you open a thread in politics, where proper responses to your musings can be given, and we carry on?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 11:55:23 AM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2012, 11:56:53 AM »

Weird that people are getting so caught up in giving a HOMEless man shoes rather than a home.

If this is what passes as noteworthy charity in minds of folks today, then we are worse off than I thought.

And more evidence for my positions in the private forums.

Feel free to go back to your ideological bandwagon now.
Why don't you go give a homeless man your HOME.

Feel free to pontificate from hypocritical perch now.

I do often.

Continue.

EDIT: And what I do is not relevant to this. It has to do with the ideological structure of "charity". Even my sharing my very small apartment with others is nothing. Personal charity gets us nowhere. And when doing something as small as handing out shoes is worldwide news, in a certain sense I guess it might good news as the petite bourgeoisie notion of helping the less fortunate has to come nearly to its end and perhaps we can move on to real solutions.
I'm sure you do. Roll Eyes

And now personal charity is "nothing".

You can't even acknowledge this simple act of kindness without disparaging it in some way reveals the heart of a true misanthrope.

I do.

Not fun when your assumptions are wrong.

But it doesn't matter.

And personal charity might matter in some momentary sense of benefiting both parties involved or at least the party "giving" something away as it allows them to return to their life of imbalanced wealth and assuage their conscience for living the way the do along the reality of the other they "helped".

Some people stop "doing charity" because the recipient wasn't "grateful".

The point here is, if personal charity and random acts of kindness worked, we would no longer need them by now.

And overly celebrating such moments (which I can tell from this thread must be INFREQUENT in your lives) do nothing other than make those with privilege feel good. (The situation is worse here, I didn't know this was some "viral" thing when I read here till I went out last for a little bit and everyone was talking about it.) Such "random acts" happen all the time (usually one poor person giving to another) and such moments serve as a fetishing moments when not only will where some people will not act out of principle or lack of ability, but because they have FELT they already have acted by having celebrated someone else's act.

This is how ideology and fetishism works. In this case, you could revisit the moment and feel good again and again I suppose. (With eventual diminishing returns.)

I've been on pretty much all ends of this charity business.

And the most helpful and effective acts of "charity" are large institutional acts of justice.

It is not charity. It is what is right.

The RCC is the second best organization in America in doing such acts. Really it is quite compelling what they do without all the "golly shucks" sentimentality.

And the American Government is the most effective agent of justice, again without much affective attachement.

The problem with the poor receiving justice, isn't that we don't love them enough, it is that we love them too much. (Love in the sappy pedestrian sense here.)

And the best manner for the such an inaffectual (if you will) and effective system to arise is through bureaucracy.

"Kindess" is lovely fleeting feeling people like to have once in a while. You can still have that. Let the technocrats take care of the heavy lifting though that really changes people's lives and often in fact saves them.

They will still be around for you to give their kids toys at Christmas or whatever makes people feel good.

Housing the poor ain't no feel good endeavor. Really love usually doesn't feel good, at least for those of us this side of sainthood.

$50 for some shoes. Easy.
Living with a mentally ill person and trying to help them get their life on track in American. Difficult to nearly impossible.

So each one of us can't do it, but we can create uncaring systems which do a better job at caring.
    
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« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2012, 12:00:03 PM »

I don't know why there always has to be an argument in every thread...

Anyway, this is a wonderful thing. Like Liza, I wish it weren't newsworthy, but maybe by being newsworthy it will eventually become less so, in a good way. If even 10% of the people who see the story are inspired to act similarly, then the world will be that much better. And really, looked at from another angle, I'd much rather have stories like this one than to be insulted with a never-ending parade of garbage "news" about what army generals and tabloid celebrities have been doing with their genitalia lately.
Indeed!

There's a goofy insurance comercial where someone does the right thing, someone notices it, and does another right thing and so on.  Hopefully this is real life.

It's not and you know it. This is what ideology is here people.

It is a form of denial.

And yet the unfound reality and "hope" is what so many cling to especially in this season when a lot of fund will go into the purchases the more superfluous of things while others barely get in the wealthiest and most superlative in all things country on the planet.

Now people cannot shoot whatever criticism against me as they wish.

And to the degree it is true that I don't give everything away, proves my point.

No one person can change this.

And goodness isn't catching.

So don't let such moments as noted in this thread do what they tend to: pull one into a of hope and trust in your fellow man and perhaps yourself.

I don't have a photos of such moments, but I live in one more the most depressed parts of the city and the poor do this for each other every day. How else would they get by?

And yes on the weekends and holidays the extremely entitled come down during daylight in droves to "help" out.

And yet the fundamental nature and degree of poverty and suffering hasn't changed much.

So maybe this photo warms the cockles of the hearts of those who live in bubbles where they either never see homeless people, are afraid to help a homeless person (take them into their home), and this gives them "hope" and they can act via support of this officer.

Without really questioning the sanity of a system to where anyone can be without shoes next to a shoe store in first the place.

Carry on.


Why don't you open a thread in politics, where proper responses to your musings can be given, and we carry on?

Because this discussion is just fine where it is.

You method requires the need for attack and secrecy.

I can merely state my opinion with reason and show facts: the poor aren't still with us. They are away from us, usually as far as we can afford to live.

And really, not many read the private forums. And those who do ain't changing their minds on anything.

So go talk to yourself in a corner cause that is effective outcome of your enormous posts in the private section.
 Orthonorm, you are being warned for 14 days for posting polemical comments in a board that is meant for discussion only. 

This kind of discussion should not be taking place in Christian News.  Please refrain from posting polemically in the General Fora. 

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« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2012, 12:00:29 PM »

I am mostly with Orthonorm on this one.  It is only news because we have an inflated view of the nobility of a NYC police officer and a condescending and pitying view of the homeless.  No one is criticizing the man who bought the shoes.  It is a nice thing that this person did, but it is not exceptional.   The fact that it is being treated as such is a shame on everyone else.  The NYPD is certainly going to do everything it can to capitalize on the PR though.  Have they gotten him a book deal yet?  Wink
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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2012, 12:07:42 PM »

I don't know why there always has to be an argument in every thread...

Anyway, this is a wonderful thing. Like Liza, I wish it weren't newsworthy, but maybe by being newsworthy it will eventually become less so, in a good way. If even 10% of the people who see the story are inspired to act similarly, then the world will be that much better. And really, looked at from another angle, I'd much rather have stories like this one than to be insulted with a never-ending parade of garbage "news" about what army generals and tabloid celebrities have been doing with their genitalia lately.
Indeed!

There's a goofy insurance comercial where someone does the right thing, someone notices it, and does another right thing and so on.  Hopefully this is real life.

It's not and you know it. This is what ideology is here people.

It is a form of denial.

And yet the unfound reality and "hope" is what so many cling to especially in this season when a lot of fund will go into the purchases the more superfluous of things while others barely get in the wealthiest and most superlative in all things country on the planet.

Now people cannot shoot whatever criticism against me as they wish.

And to the degree it is true that I don't give everything away, proves my point.

No one person can change this.

And goodness isn't catching.

So don't let such moments as noted in this thread do what they tend to: pull one into a of hope and trust in your fellow man and perhaps yourself.

I don't have a photos of such moments, but I live in one more the most depressed parts of the city and the poor do this for each other every day. How else would they get by?

And yes on the weekends and holidays the extremely entitled come down during daylight in droves to "help" out.

And yet the fundamental nature and degree of poverty and suffering hasn't changed much.

So maybe this photo warms the cockles of the hearts of those who live in bubbles where they either never see homeless people, are afraid to help a homeless person (take them into their home), and this gives them "hope" and they can act via support of this officer.

Without really questioning the sanity of a system to where anyone can be without shoes next to a shoe store in first the place.

Carry on.


Why don't you open a thread in politics, where proper responses to your musings can be given, and we carry on?

Because this discussion is just fine where it is.

You method requires the need for attack and secrecy.

I can merely state my opinion with reason and show facts: the poor aren't still with us. They are away from us, usually as far as we can afford to live.

And really, not many read the private forums. And those who do ain't changing their minds on anything.

So go talk to yourself in a corner cause that is effective outcome of your enormous posts in the private section.
Ah, I see.  You prefer to criticize those who do, and take pock shots at the "system," informing us all of the greatness of your self-righteousness.

Continue with your slumming, but spare us your slamming.
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2012, 12:09:43 PM »

I am mostly with Orthonorm on this one.  It is only news because we have an inflated view of the nobility of a NYC police officer and a condescending and pitying view of the homeless.  No one is criticizing the man who bought the shoes.  It is a nice thing that this person did, but it is not exceptional.   The fact that it is being treated as such is a shame on everyone else.  The NYPD is certainly going to do everything it can to capitalize on the PR though.  Have they gotten him a book deal yet?  Wink
No, it seems that they had to practically drag him out into the public.

I am waiting for a follow up on the homeless guy.
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2012, 12:16:10 PM »

I am mostly with Orthonorm on this one.  It is only news because we have an inflated view of the nobility of a NYC police officer and a condescending and pitying view of the homeless.  No one is criticizing the man who bought the shoes.  It is a nice thing that this person did, but it is not exceptional.   The fact that it is being treated as such is a shame on everyone else.  The NYPD is certainly going to do everything it can to capitalize on the PR though.  Have they gotten him a book deal yet?  Wink

Just so I am clear here.

I ain't got nothing against cops. I live somewhere and find myself in circles where they are considered "bad".

I don't. I can't imagine having their job (well I can but you know what I mean).

Just this week there was a herion buy by the vice force which went bad and one drug dealer was shot, one was wounded. And people on this side of the world in Cincinnati are criticizing the police for it.

I wouldn't.

I question their tactic of killing or even spending any time on trying to stop a "hand to hand to sale of herion".

But I have no illusions of what it is like to be in that situation when it goes bad.

Been there.

And I've both had guns pulled on me and been shot at.

And I know the SOP is to unload your firearm once things go south.

I am sure the guy without shoes has a slightly better life for it.

And maybe the PR for the NYPD will be good to alleviate often ineffective tensions between cops and places where the homeless exist.

My point is that Christian love isn't kindness.

It is justice.

God's love isn't "kindness" it is just. And we are called to act in the same manner.

This means doing what is just in whatever way we can. For Christians in late-capitalism this isn't charitable donations and the like.

The imbalance in wealth and income in this country is severe. Random acts of kindness are just justice. The kindness.

We steady and predictable acts of justice and ought not get too caught up in illusion of hope and change moments of kindness offer.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 12:16:31 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2012, 12:21:21 PM »

I am mostly with Orthonorm on this one.  It is only news because we have an inflated view of the nobility of a NYC police officer and a condescending and pitying view of the homeless.  No one is criticizing the man who bought the shoes.  It is a nice thing that this person did, but it is not exceptional.   The fact that it is being treated as such is a shame on everyone else.  The NYPD is certainly going to do everything it can to capitalize on the PR though.  Have they gotten him a book deal yet?  Wink
No, it seems that they had to practically drag him out into the public.

I am waiting for a follow up on the homeless guy.

Yeah, I am for once not that cynical. Cause I see this stuff everyday or at least every three days.

If the homeless guy ends up a millionaire or something, this still means nothing.

This shouldn't be a matter of political discussion or national (now worldwide?) pride or interest.

What should be is eliminating circumstances which make such acts so "remarkable" in the first place.

I have a busy day and I still feel like garbage. I am hoping a doctor find some kindness in their heart, yet again this week and I will be benefiting from the kindness of another this week as well in terms of making my ability to get from one place to another easier.

And I am grateful.

But I am not confused. Such behaviors don't do much to stop the deep structural issues which allow such circumstances to happen in the first place.

Christian justice would do a lot to do so.

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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2012, 12:23:40 PM »

I don't know why there always has to be an argument in every thread...

Anyway, this is a wonderful thing. Like Liza, I wish it weren't newsworthy, but maybe by being newsworthy it will eventually become less so, in a good way. If even 10% of the people who see the story are inspired to act similarly, then the world will be that much better. And really, looked at from another angle, I'd much rather have stories like this one than to be insulted with a never-ending parade of garbage "news" about what army generals and tabloid celebrities have been doing with their genitalia lately.
Indeed!

There's a goofy insurance comercial where someone does the right thing, someone notices it, and does another right thing and so on.  Hopefully this is real life.

It's not and you know it. This is what ideology is here people.

It is a form of denial.

And yet the unfound reality and "hope" is what so many cling to especially in this season when a lot of fund will go into the purchases the more superfluous of things while others barely get in the wealthiest and most superlative in all things country on the planet.

Now people cannot shoot whatever criticism against me as they wish.

And to the degree it is true that I don't give everything away, proves my point.

No one person can change this.

And goodness isn't catching.

So don't let such moments as noted in this thread do what they tend to: pull one into a of hope and trust in your fellow man and perhaps yourself.

I don't have a photos of such moments, but I live in one more the most depressed parts of the city and the poor do this for each other every day. How else would they get by?

And yes on the weekends and holidays the extremely entitled come down during daylight in droves to "help" out.

And yet the fundamental nature and degree of poverty and suffering hasn't changed much.

So maybe this photo warms the cockles of the hearts of those who live in bubbles where they either never see homeless people, are afraid to help a homeless person (take them into their home), and this gives them "hope" and they can act via support of this officer.

Without really questioning the sanity of a system to where anyone can be without shoes next to a shoe store in first the place.

Carry on.


Why don't you open a thread in politics, where proper responses to your musings can be given, and we carry on?

Because this discussion is just fine where it is.

You method requires the need for attack and secrecy.

I can merely state my opinion with reason and show facts: the poor aren't still with us. They are away from us, usually as far as we can afford to live.

And really, not many read the private forums. And those who do ain't changing their minds on anything.

So go talk to yourself in a corner cause that is effective outcome of your enormous posts in the private section.
Ah, I see.  You prefer to criticize those who do, and take pock shots at the "system," informing us all of the greatness of your self-righteousness.

Continue with your slumming, but spare us your slamming.

Slamming? When did you get so sensitive?

Truth does hurt at times I suppose.
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2012, 12:28:36 PM »

I am mostly with Orthonorm on this one.  It is only news because we have an inflated view of the nobility of a NYC police officer and a condescending and pitying view of the homeless.  No one is criticizing the man who bought the shoes.  It is a nice thing that this person did, but it is not exceptional.   The fact that it is being treated as such is a shame on everyone else.  The NYPD is certainly going to do everything it can to capitalize on the PR though.  Have they gotten him a book deal yet?  Wink

Just so I am clear here.

I ain't got nothing against cops. I live somewhere and find myself in circles where they are considered "bad".

I don't. I can't imagine having their job (well I can but you know what I mean).

Just this week there was a herion buy by the vice force which went bad and one drug dealer was shot, one was wounded. And people on this side of the world in Cincinnati are criticizing the police for it.

I wouldn't.

I question their tactic of killing or even spending any time on trying to stop a "hand to hand to sale of herion".

But I have no illusions of what it is like to be in that situation when it goes bad.

Been there.

And I've both had guns pulled on me and been shot at.

And I know the SOP is to unload your firearm once things go south.

I am sure the guy without shoes has a slightly better life for it.

And maybe the PR for the NYPD will be good to alleviate often ineffective tensions between cops and places where the homeless exist.

My point is that Christian love isn't kindness.

It is justice.

God's love isn't "kindness" it is just. And we are called to act in the same manner.

This means doing what is just in whatever way we can. For Christians in late-capitalism this isn't charitable donations and the like.

The imbalance in wealth and income in this country is severe. Random acts of kindness are just justice. The kindness.

We steady and predictable acts of justice and ought not get too caught up in illusion of hope and change moments of kindness offer.
Ever live in the third world?
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2012, 12:29:02 PM »

I don't know why there always has to be an argument in every thread...

Anyway, this is a wonderful thing. Like Liza, I wish it weren't newsworthy, but maybe by being newsworthy it will eventually become less so, in a good way. If even 10% of the people who see the story are inspired to act similarly, then the world will be that much better. And really, looked at from another angle, I'd much rather have stories like this one than to be insulted with a never-ending parade of garbage "news" about what army generals and tabloid celebrities have been doing with their genitalia lately.
Indeed!

There's a goofy insurance comercial where someone does the right thing, someone notices it, and does another right thing and so on.  Hopefully this is real life.

It's not and you know it. This is what ideology is here people.

It is a form of denial.

And yet the unfound reality and "hope" is what so many cling to especially in this season when a lot of fund will go into the purchases the more superfluous of things while others barely get in the wealthiest and most superlative in all things country on the planet.

Now people cannot shoot whatever criticism against me as they wish.

And to the degree it is true that I don't give everything away, proves my point.

No one person can change this.

And goodness isn't catching.

So don't let such moments as noted in this thread do what they tend to: pull one into a of hope and trust in your fellow man and perhaps yourself.

I don't have a photos of such moments, but I live in one more the most depressed parts of the city and the poor do this for each other every day. How else would they get by?

And yes on the weekends and holidays the extremely entitled come down during daylight in droves to "help" out.

And yet the fundamental nature and degree of poverty and suffering hasn't changed much.

So maybe this photo warms the cockles of the hearts of those who live in bubbles where they either never see homeless people, are afraid to help a homeless person (take them into their home), and this gives them "hope" and they can act via support of this officer.

Without really questioning the sanity of a system to where anyone can be without shoes next to a shoe store in first the place.

Carry on.


Why don't you open a thread in politics, where proper responses to your musings can be given, and we carry on?

Because this discussion is just fine where it is.

You method requires the need for attack and secrecy.

I can merely state my opinion with reason and show facts: the poor aren't still with us. They are away from us, usually as far as we can afford to live.

And really, not many read the private forums. And those who do ain't changing their minds on anything.

So go talk to yourself in a corner cause that is effective outcome of your enormous posts in the private section.
Ah, I see.  You prefer to criticize those who do, and take pock shots at the "system," informing us all of the greatness of your self-righteousness.

Continue with your slumming, but spare us your slamming.

Slamming? When did you get so sensitive?

Truth does hurt at times I suppose.
would explain why you avoid it.
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and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2012, 12:52:18 PM »

What a bummer this thread turned out to be  Undecided
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« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2012, 12:56:23 PM »

What a bummer this thread turned out to be  Undecided

Yeah, reality ain't all football games and hollywood endings.

Should we look at which threads get the highest view to post ratios?
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« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2012, 02:49:19 PM »

What a bummer this thread turned out to be  Undecided

I come away with a different opinion Asteriktos. The issue Orthonorm brought up is important. I think about this topic quite a bit.

In my mind, it is the fact that Orthonorm's position is being argued against that I find discouraging (or at least my reading of his posts, he is hard to decipher).

My position:

I should take in the homeless.
I acknowledge that it will lead to discomfort and complexity in my life.
I cannot take in drug addicts and mentally ill people due to putting other people in peril.
I believe the government needs to play a major role.
I believe the burden must be shared throughout the country (so that no community or state is overburdened). This is a tax we need.
I know there are homeless people that just need a head start. All they need is a job, a car (depending on location) and first and last month's rent to get on their feet.  I know that taking them in, solves this need.
I know that the increase in the food bills and utilities is doable if you live more frugally.
All acts of kindness, however small, are wonderful.

I could go on, but I have to go to a laundromat.
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« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2012, 03:34:17 PM »

The inn keeper's story is the story of a man who was entrusted with caring for the sick without being paid the whole amount right away. Given the promise of full payment later on for all the care he will provide. The inn keeper agreed to that deal, showing compassion can be practiced even when one is being paid for what one is doing. The inn keeper took the sick man in with faith, with compassion, and with dedication to tend to his care until the man healed. Restoring the man to health was in the interest of the inn keeper. The good Samaritan was good enough to find a good inn keeper worthy of  being trusted to care for the sick man. So does a just society must create a system that works for a lasting solution to its societal problem. At the time the good Samaritan did what he could for the sick man, but for the long painful process he knew he can not provide by himself he sought and found the innkeeper and brokered a deal that will enable the sick man to get  the care he needed to get well completely. The individual also has a role to play. It is in the cooperation of these two men that the sick man gets taken care of for a lasting recovery from his ailment. The roadside emergency work might stabilize the sick temporarily and it is absolutely important in those critical moments but it can not be a reliable source of health care for the long painful recovery to full health and maintenance of health. I say this to state that I do believe that  Government has a role to play in eradicating poverty, in caring for the most venerable members of the society etc with the right implementation of  just policies. The united we stand slogan has a deeper meaning and far-reaching societal impact than just being an occasional patriotic ejaculation …



The picture  as well as the exaggerated public celebration are both beautiful and grotesque at once. I guess it depends how you look at it. Some see a poor homeless guy being helped by another fellow human being and thus see the beauty of the act, others in addition to the beauty see in the picture a homeless man barefooted in what is reported as a bone breaking cold day in front of a shoe store surrounded by what he needed to survive yet which he can not have thus the slow tortures death of one who knows his life is not worth the price of  one of those hanging shoes on display. Dignity lost, the mockery of ones insignificance amplified in such manner, despair settles in the heart of even the strongest among us. Some of us know that a human being can be destroyed even while the physical health remains intact. That picture triggers mixed reaction from some of us , not always the ooh ahh moment some expect it to be. Do not be surprised if you do not hear what you expect, some see what others do not, and some believe in certain solutions in a manner others do not . If some were to say it is not easy to give, thus all the accolade for the givers must be due, still others will tell us that it is not easy to receive such gifts so they demand our accolades to be accompanied with justified indignation and outrage on the behalf of  the one who must perpetually receive to survive, never to know what it is to thrive. The spectrum of the response to such things is interesting, but the fact that we find the call for a more lasting and most importantly meaningful solution a debatable issue is quite depressing. What orthonorm said is quite sublime and deep and true. I know I am guilty of most of the things he has mentioned in relation to the poor. I know it is not only  in the interest of society in general to provide  justice for the plight of the poor, the mentally ill the disenfranchised  so as to create a healthy productive society, but it is also the right and for us a Christian thing to do. What does it say about us as a society to live in a first world and sceneries of depravity and suffering  like these are so norm that the none normative astounding thing becomes the act of  a fellow human being’s kindness to the society at large. Quite sobering. If you think about it.
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« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2012, 04:10:38 PM »

Quote
This means doing what is just in whatever way we can. For Christians in late-capitalism this isn't charitable donations and the like.

My church seems to think it is, given that it runs programs like this one, which aim to help people in part through charitable donations (also through job placement services and the like).

What is it, then? What should Christians in late-capitalism be doing about these problems? Should we all become liberation theology people, or what?

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« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2012, 06:43:23 PM »

(or at least my reading of his posts, he is hard to decipher).


Sorry looking over my posts some of the difficulty is due to the haste and manner in which they were written to be sure.

I've mentioned I have a bit of a weird thing with typing nowadays. Well that was compounded by the way I was typing and the circumstances under which I was doing it.
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« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2012, 06:47:01 PM »

What a bummer this thread turned out to be  Undecided

I come away with a different opinion Asteriktos. The issue Orthonorm brought up is important. I think about this topic quite a bit.

In my mind, it is the fact that Orthonorm's position is being argued against that I find discouraging (or at least my reading of his posts, he is hard to decipher).

My position:

I should take in the homeless.
I acknowledge that it will lead to discomfort and complexity in my life.
I cannot take in drug addicts and mentally ill people due to putting other people in peril.
I believe the government needs to play a major role.
I believe the burden must be shared throughout the country (so that no community or state is overburdened). This is a tax we need.

I know there are homeless people that just need a head start. All they need is a job, a car (depending on location) and first and last month's rent to get on their feet.  I know that taking them in, solves this need.
I know that the increase in the food bills and utilities is doable if you live more frugally.
All acts of kindness, however small, are wonderful.

I could go on, but I have to go to a laundromat.

hence I suggested he start a thread in politics.
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and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2012, 07:03:18 PM »

What a bummer this thread turned out to be  Undecided

I come away with a different opinion Asteriktos. The issue Orthonorm brought up is important. I think about this topic quite a bit.

In my mind, it is the fact that Orthonorm's position is being argued against that I find discouraging (or at least my reading of his posts, he is hard to decipher).

My position:

I should take in the homeless.
I acknowledge that it will lead to discomfort and complexity in my life.
I cannot take in drug addicts and mentally ill people due to putting other people in peril.
I believe the government needs to play a major role.
I believe the burden must be shared throughout the country (so that no community or state is overburdened). This is a tax we need.

I know there are homeless people that just need a head start. All they need is a job, a car (depending on location) and first and last month's rent to get on their feet.  I know that taking them in, solves this need.
I know that the increase in the food bills and utilities is doable if you live more frugally.
All acts of kindness, however small, are wonderful.

I could go on, but I have to go to a laundromat.

hence I suggested he start a thread in politics.

And then no one will see it.

No thanks. I've gotten enough PMs from people enjoying this discussion.

And I don't like how things play in there. Nothing interesting happens.
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« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2012, 07:05:50 PM »

Quote
This means doing what is just in whatever way we can. For Christians in late-capitalism this isn't charitable donations and the like.

My church seems to think it is, given that it runs programs like this one, which aim to help people in part through charitable donations (also through job placement services and the like).

What is it, then? What should Christians in late-capitalism be doing about these problems? Should we all become liberation theology people, or what?



I was in the middle of typing up a "reply" and its grown enormous.

Let me come back to it later, if I feel up to it.

But your question is important. Very important. In fact it is nearly always THE question.

Later all. Sorry for the dropped words in my initial posts.

It's a bit embarrassing but it something I have to accept or I will have a hard time ever using a keyboard.
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« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2012, 07:13:53 PM »

What a bummer this thread turned out to be  Undecided

I come away with a different opinion Asteriktos. The issue Orthonorm brought up is important. I think about this topic quite a bit.

In my mind, it is the fact that Orthonorm's position is being argued against that I find discouraging (or at least my reading of his posts, he is hard to decipher).

My position:

I should take in the homeless.
I acknowledge that it will lead to discomfort and complexity in my life.
I cannot take in drug addicts and mentally ill people due to putting other people in peril.
I believe the government needs to play a major role.
I believe the burden must be shared throughout the country (so that no community or state is overburdened). This is a tax we need.

I know there are homeless people that just need a head start. All they need is a job, a car (depending on location) and first and last month's rent to get on their feet.  I know that taking them in, solves this need.
I know that the increase in the food bills and utilities is doable if you live more frugally.
All acts of kindness, however small, are wonderful.

I could go on, but I have to go to a laundromat.

hence I suggested he start a thread in politics.

And then no one will see it.

No thanks. I've gotten enough PMs from people enjoying this discussion.
And then no one will see them.

And I don't like how things play in there. Nothing interesting happens.
like your enigmas being unraveled?
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2012, 07:16:52 PM »

(or at least my reading of his posts, he is hard to decipher).


Sorry looking over my posts some of the difficulty is due to the haste and manner in which they were written to be sure.

I've mentioned I have a bit of a weird thing with typing nowadays. Well that was compounded by the way I was typing and the circumstances under which I was doing it.

I always have difficulty with your posts Orthonorm. It is not a bad thing. It makes me think while reading in between your lines. It is both frustrating and charming at the same time.
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orthonorm
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« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2012, 07:20:06 PM »

What a bummer this thread turned out to be  Undecided

I come away with a different opinion Asteriktos. The issue Orthonorm brought up is important. I think about this topic quite a bit.

In my mind, it is the fact that Orthonorm's position is being argued against that I find discouraging (or at least my reading of his posts, he is hard to decipher).

My position:

I should take in the homeless.
I acknowledge that it will lead to discomfort and complexity in my life.
I cannot take in drug addicts and mentally ill people due to putting other people in peril.
I believe the government needs to play a major role.
I believe the burden must be shared throughout the country (so that no community or state is overburdened). This is a tax we need.

I know there are homeless people that just need a head start. All they need is a job, a car (depending on location) and first and last month's rent to get on their feet.  I know that taking them in, solves this need.
I know that the increase in the food bills and utilities is doable if you live more frugally.
All acts of kindness, however small, are wonderful.

I could go on, but I have to go to a laundromat.

hence I suggested he start a thread in politics.

And then no one will see it.

No thanks. I've gotten enough PMs from people enjoying this discussion.
And then no one will see them.

And I don't like how things play in there. Nothing interesting happens.
like your enigmas being unraveled?

Nope. Sorry Isa, you can argue right here just fine. But you are incapable of it when you cannot build elaborately and finely constructed strawmen of history to fit whatever argument you want to put forth at the moment.

Look at your single contribution:

Something about living in the third world.

When it comes to actual thought, other than making interesting and entertaining and brilliant but irrelevant collages of websites, your posts are rather weak.

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Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
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Paint It Red


« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2012, 07:20:58 PM »

What a surprise this thread comes when a woman an a dirty EMT jacket approached me outside the grocery store in tears begging for $40. Didn't have cash nor did I have my debit card for an ATM withdrawal. My bank is closed too.
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“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
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