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Author Topic: Discussion on Abortion and Culture Wars  (Read 2173 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« Reply #45 on: November 09, 2012, 02:55:33 AM »

I'm sorry, but no matter how much I try to look past it, I still cannot get over the fact that criminalizing abortion still seems like it is just a further attempt by the religious-right WASP to force their 'superior Christian hur hurr' ethics upon the less fortunate 'uncivilized' minority communities in urban-sprawl America. Ask yourself, who is going to suffer from outlawing abortion? The WASP will be virtually unaffected by the law since they can just use their wealth to get safe-but-illegal abortions done and then hide it, but the less fortunate minority groups will either be forced to bear and raise the child in difficult circumstances or try to abort it in a dangerous way that will put both the lives of the fetus and the mother at risk because they don't have the luxury of being wealthy enough where the law practically doesn't apply to you. We stay out of your community so why can't you stay out of ours? If we want to resist abortion--as many Latinas (including my mother) do--then we will resist it out of our own ethics and choice. But if we do want an abortion, what business is it of yours anyway? You've never done anything good or beneficial for us--hell, you attack welfare and question our citizenship at every moment possible--so what right do you have to try to force your WASP morality upon us? Show us you care first, help us first and become our friends first, and then maybe we will consider your ethical advice.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,47952.msg834367/topicseen.html#msg834367
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ialmisry
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« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2012, 02:58:53 AM »

I'm perfectly aware of all this. Most Latinas don't get abortions, and to be honest, I think that deciding not to oftentimes ruins their lives because then they are never able to educate themselves and rise to a higher position in society. My mother being an example. My problem is with WASPs FORCING us to not get abortions. I just think that the decision for us to abort should remain present.
The WASP was all for encouraging that.

she had lovely ideas about you all killing your future.  Makes more room for the White Race.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 02:59:33 AM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2012, 03:31:46 AM »

I'm perfectly aware of all this. Most Latinas don't get abortions, and to be honest, I think that deciding not to oftentimes ruins their lives because then they are never able to educate themselves and rise to a higher position in society. My mother being an example. My problem is with WASPs FORCING us to not get abortions. I just think that the decision for us to abort should remain present.

If you're so aware of it, why are you still blaming WASPs for decisions that Latinas themselves are making? For all the bizarre race-bating you're bringing to bear in trying to defend the indefensible, you don't seem to hold your own people in very high regard if they don't make the decisions that you would like them to make, which sounds an awful lot like the kind of attitude that you're condemning as "WASP morality", with the repetition of the idea that WASPs (aren't you part German, by the way? Who were those Saxons who put the "S" in WASP? Self-hatred is unbecoming) are FORCING "us" to not get abortions.

If you think you have to choose between having a kid and bettering your station in life, I'd like to introduce you to modern life in the United States, where everyday when I go to graduate school at the local university, I see people of all colors (some of them are probably even WASPs! Shocked I wonder how they can stand being around all these darn Hispanics, Arabs, etc. who are making their own decisions; it must drive them crazy) pushing strollers on their way to class, or to drop their children off at child care that is provided on campus. I've never actually been to a campus that didn't offer some form of child care, often either free or at greatly reduced rates specifically to make furthering education as attractive as possible to mothers.

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« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2012, 05:23:19 AM »

It really shouldn't be called a culture war as much as a morality war.
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« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2012, 12:52:16 PM »

It really shouldn't be called a culture war as much as a morality war.

Except that there is a culture of immorality growing. Of course, it has been for quite some time. It's only recently that most people have begun to notice it and now it's a bit late to do anything since the barbarians are no longer at the gates, but running the city.
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« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2012, 02:12:42 PM »

I'm perfectly aware of all this. Most Latinas don't get abortions, and to be honest, I think that deciding not to oftentimes ruins their lives because then they are never able to educate themselves and rise to a higher position in society. My mother being an example. My problem is with WASPs FORCING us to not get abortions. I just think that the decision for us to abort should remain present.
The WASP was all for encouraging that.

she had lovely ideas about you all killing your future.  Makes more room for the White Race.

Thanks for this.

Although your post is completely misleading, the wikipedia entry gave some interesting leads about a hometown "hero".

If people want to read the text that goes along with Isa image cherry picking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Race
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« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2012, 02:39:31 PM »

I'm sorry, but no matter how much I try to look past it, I still cannot get over the fact that criminalizing abortion still seems like it is just a further attempt by the religious-right WASP to force their 'superior Christian hur hurr' ethics upon the less fortunate 'uncivilized' minority communities in urban-sprawl America. Ask yourself, who is going to suffer from outlawing abortion? The WASP will be virtually unaffected by the law since they can just use their wealth to get safe-but-illegal abortions done and then hide it, but the less fortunate minority groups will either be forced to bear and raise the child in difficult circumstances or try to abort it in a dangerous way that will put both the lives of the fetus and the mother at risk because they don't have the luxury of being wealthy enough where the law practically doesn't apply to you.
The entire Appalachian region is populated by people that couldn't afford "use their wealth to get safe-but-illegal abortions done and then hide it," and what is it made up of?

WASPs. So quit stereotyping.
There are probably many more Scots-Irish in Appalachia than there are Anglo-Saxons.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 02:48:07 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2012, 04:59:06 PM »

There are probably many more Scots-Irish in Appalachia than there are Anglo-Saxons.
White Scots-Irish Protestant, then? WSIP. Wink
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ialmisry
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« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2012, 05:41:20 PM »

Thanks for this.

Although your post is completely misleading, the wikipedia entry gave some interesting leads about a hometown "hero".

If people want to read the text that goes along with Isa image cherry picking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Race
No cherry picking at all.  At least she was up front and honest about her ideas about "inferior races."  A friend of mine who worked at Planned Parenthood had a complete set of her writings-the office had decided that it was dangerous to have such evidence lying around where people might read what their founder actually said.

And not misleading at all.  Deal with it.  Btw, just for your comrade Augustin, she had a real hatred for Romanians, using the immigrant Romanian as the example of the threat to the "white race."
« Last Edit: November 09, 2012, 05:44:01 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2012, 05:50:49 PM »

Thanks for this.

Although your post is completely misleading, the wikipedia entry gave some interesting leads about a hometown "hero".

If people want to read the text that goes along with Isa image cherry picking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Race
No cherry picking at all.  At least she was up front and honest about her ideas about "inferior races."  A friend of mine who worked at Planned Parenthood had a complete set of her writings-the office had decided that it was dangerous to have such evidence lying around where people might read what their founder actually said.

And not misleading at all.  Deal with it.  Btw, just for your comrade Augustin, she had a real hatred for Romanians, using the immigrant Romanian as the example of the threat to the "white race."

Can you produce evidence for this "hatred". Guess you are more sensitive racism than MLK Jr. was.

And 'sides, Hitler was garbage, but it doesn't mean the VW is.

It might be, let me know. Someone I know if thinking of getting a Passat.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2012, 06:13:53 PM »

Thanks for this.

Although your post is completely misleading, the wikipedia entry gave some interesting leads about a hometown "hero".

If people want to read the text that goes along with Isa image cherry picking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Race
No cherry picking at all.  At least she was up front and honest about her ideas about "inferior races."  A friend of mine who worked at Planned Parenthood had a complete set of her writings-the office had decided that it was dangerous to have such evidence lying around where people might read what their founder actually said.

And not misleading at all.  Deal with it.  Btw, just for your comrade Augustin, she had a real hatred for Romanians, using the immigrant Romanian as the example of the threat to the "white race."

Can you produce evidence for this "hatred". Guess you are more sensitive racism than MLK Jr. was.
I wasn't aware MLK Jr. was Romanian.

Can I locate the evidence?  With a little effort, yes.  Will I drop everything this moment and do that?  No, not just right this moment. Maybe latter.

And 'sides, Hitler was garbage, but it doesn't mean the VW is.
The Trabant was.  And 'sides, I think the evil capitalists have taken over VW from the National Socialists' union.

It might be, let me know. Someone I know if thinking of getting a Passat.
Guess he will have to do his Hausaufgaben for himself.
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2012, 07:05:27 AM »

It really shouldn't be called a culture war as much as a morality war.

Except that there is a culture of immorality growing. Of course, it has been for quite some time. It's only recently that most people have begun to notice it and now it's a bit late to do anything since the barbarians are no longer at the gates, but running the city.

I, in no way, disagree with what you posted.  My point was simply to address our current culture is immoral, as you pointed out, and an immoral culture doesn't "war" with itself.
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« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2012, 08:24:32 AM »

It really shouldn't be called a culture war as much as a morality war.

Except that there is a culture of immorality growing. Of course, it has been for quite some time. It's only recently that most people have begun to notice it and now it's a bit late to do anything since the barbarians are no longer at the gates, but running the city.

I, in no way, disagree with what you posted.  My point was simply to address our current culture is immoral, as you pointed out, and an immoral culture doesn't "war" with itself.
When has "our" culture ever been "moral"?
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« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2012, 09:15:44 AM »

It really shouldn't be called a culture war as much as a morality war.

Except that there is a culture of immorality growing. Of course, it has been for quite some time. It's only recently that most people have begun to notice it and now it's a bit late to do anything since the barbarians are no longer at the gates, but running the city.

I, in no way, disagree with what you posted.  My point was simply to address our current culture is immoral, as you pointed out, and an immoral culture doesn't "war" with itself.
When has "our" culture ever been "moral"?
Never moral in completeness, but it once was generally a moral culture.
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« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2012, 09:47:47 AM »

Richard Stearns, President of World Vision (a Christian humanitarian organization dedicated to working with children, families, and their communities worldwide to reach their full potential by tackling the causes of poverty and injustice):

Quote
What if we simply stuck to what Jesus commanded us to do: love our neighbors as ourselves, care for the poor and the sick and the brokenhearted, stand up for the oppressed, be generous with our time and our money, and live winsome lives filled with grace and gentleness?

Christians have always lived, and often thrived, in cultures where they are minorities. Christianity began in a Jewish culture and thrived in a pagan Roman one. The apostle Paul, writer of nearly half the New Testament, actually offers advice to the church in Corinth which lived in the midst of a very pagan society. His words should guide us today.

In I Corinthians 5:9, Paul encourages the Christians to clean up their own affairs. The church was in a mess with sexual shenanigans, internal bickering, and a deep division between rich and poor. Paul gives them some advice, but he also says Christians shouldn't worry about whether others follow Christian moral teaching.
....
Paul's point is this: Be strict with yourselves, expecting fellow Christians to obey the demands of Jesus. But don't hold others to the same rules.
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« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2012, 02:18:49 PM »

Richard Stearns, President of World Vision (a Christian humanitarian organization dedicated to working with children, families, and their communities worldwide to reach their full potential by tackling the causes of poverty and injustice):

Quote
What if we simply stuck to what Jesus commanded us to do: love our neighbors as ourselves, care for the poor and the sick and the brokenhearted, stand up for the oppressed, be generous with our time and our money, and live winsome lives filled with grace and gentleness?

Christians have always lived, and often thrived, in cultures where they are minorities. Christianity began in a Jewish culture and thrived in a pagan Roman one. The apostle Paul, writer of nearly half the New Testament, actually offers advice to the church in Corinth which lived in the midst of a very pagan society. His words should guide us today.

In I Corinthians 5:9, Paul encourages the Christians to clean up their own affairs. The church was in a mess with sexual shenanigans, internal bickering, and a deep division between rich and poor. Paul gives them some advice, but he also says Christians shouldn't worry about whether others follow Christian moral teaching.
....
Paul's point is this: Be strict with yourselves, expecting fellow Christians to obey the demands of Jesus. But don't hold others to the same rules.

Do you think Paul would have advocated silence in response to the murder of innocent children?
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« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2012, 02:31:44 PM »

Condoms are murder, no nuance needed here. Not really up for debate and it should be approached in a spermatological way.
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« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2012, 02:59:51 PM »

Richard Stearns, President of World Vision (a Christian humanitarian organization dedicated to working with children, families, and their communities worldwide to reach their full potential by tackling the causes of poverty and injustice):

Quote
What if we simply stuck to what Jesus commanded us to do: love our neighbors as ourselves, care for the poor and the sick and the brokenhearted, stand up for the oppressed, be generous with our time and our money, and live winsome lives filled with grace and gentleness?

Christians have always lived, and often thrived, in cultures where they are minorities. Christianity began in a Jewish culture and thrived in a pagan Roman one. The apostle Paul, writer of nearly half the New Testament, actually offers advice to the church in Corinth which lived in the midst of a very pagan society. His words should guide us today.

In I Corinthians 5:9, Paul encourages the Christians to clean up their own affairs. The church was in a mess with sexual shenanigans, internal bickering, and a deep division between rich and poor. Paul gives them some advice, but he also says Christians shouldn't worry about whether others follow Christian moral teaching.
....
Paul's point is this: Be strict with yourselves, expecting fellow Christians to obey the demands of Jesus. But don't hold others to the same rules.

Do you think Paul would have advocated silence in response to the murder of innocent children?
I don't think anyone is arguing that the innocent should not have advocates. I think the point is that there may be more effective ways to combat abortion than the legislative process.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 03:00:52 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2012, 07:38:47 PM »

Condoms are murder, no nuance needed here. Not really up for debate and it should be approached in a spermatological way.
A sperm cell is not a human organism. An embryo is. A sperm only possess half of the genes needed for a human being.
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« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2012, 10:34:38 PM »

Condoms are murder, no nuance needed here. Not really up for debate and it should be approached in a spermatological way.
A sperm cell is not a human organism. An embryo is. A sperm only possess half of the genes needed for a human being.
Are you saying that each skin cell on my body is a human organism?
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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