Author Topic: Why is RCC so attractive?  (Read 14165 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #225 on: November 28, 2012, 04:47:58 PM »
Professor, and I am not trying to be critical of you (I like when you post pictures), but I would be more than happy to show you how you can resize images in the body of the text before you post.

It just makes scrolling and actually reading your posts that much better.
They are resized. Sometimes you can't do it without obscuring the detail on the point in question.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #226 on: November 28, 2012, 04:48:52 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.

Ummmmmmmmmmm,

This has to be the most insane thing you have ever said here.

Please explain this to me without recourse to maps, tons of web quotes, etc.

I would be hard pressed to think of anyone I know of who would define themselves as English (the could very be without knowing it). Having spent time around the English, I would have a hard time (thank God) thinking of anyone who reminds me of them.

German. Ok.
Irish. Ok.
Black American. Ok.
Jewish. Ok.
Italian. Ok.
Belgian. Ok.
Dutch. Ok.
Ethiopian. Ok.
American. Ok.
Southern American. Ok.
Scots-Irish. Ok.
Russian. Ok.
Romanian. Ok.
Belorussian Ok.
Polish. Ok.
Arab. Ok.
Israeli. Ok.
Morrocan. Ok.
Chinese. Ok.

I am going to stop, but I could keep going. This is literally going through the people I come in contact with on a day to day basis.

The majority of people I see are not even of European descent or at least so little you can't tell and they don't consider themselves to be.

And those who are of European descent, I cannot think of ONE person who would claim English.

 

« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 04:49:42 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Shiny

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #227 on: November 28, 2012, 04:50:47 PM »
Sorry, I guess whenever someone quotes you the resizing is gone. Strange, I'll have to look into why that is at a later time.
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Offline izrima

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #228 on: November 28, 2012, 04:52:38 PM »
Outside of the Jesuits I would have know in school, Orthodoxy is an irrelevant part of life even though the most famous of Cincinnati foods was given to us by Orthodox.

Orthonorm, are you from Cincinnati? Did you go to St. X? I did  :)

Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #229 on: November 28, 2012, 04:52:43 PM »
Yes, and.....your point is.....? 
The Vatican had no shortage of its English sheep in its American flock from the beginning.

That's as may be.  It doesn't change the substantive meaning of Mary's post, though.  You've heard the expression, "birds of a feather flock together", haven't you?  Well, such was the case with Catholic parishes in the U.S. in the 19th and early 20th centuries.  Poles went to Polish parishes, Irish went to Irish parishes, Germans went to German parishes, and so on.  I'm sure there was some small degree of mixing but even now in some places you can see those kinds of groupings.  Only since the various ethnic groups in the U.S. have become more or less assimilated into that so-called "melting pot" have Catholic parishes become more ethnically homogeneous.  

It seems as though you're pressing a different point here which is distorting the point Mary was trying to make earlier.
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Offline William

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #230 on: November 28, 2012, 04:56:55 PM »
Outside of the Jesuits I would have know in school, Orthodoxy is an irrelevant part of life even though the most famous of Cincinnati foods was given to us by Orthodox.

Orthonorm, are you from Cincinnati? Did you go to St. X? I did  :)

Their football team beats ours pretty often.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #231 on: November 28, 2012, 05:00:29 PM »
Sorry, I guess whenever someone quotes you the resizing is gone. Strange, I'll have to look into why that is at a later time.
Sometimes they quote while I'm revising.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline William

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #232 on: November 28, 2012, 05:01:42 PM »
BTW I self identify as an Anglo ethnically, though most people with heavy English ancestry just call themselves American or white.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #233 on: November 28, 2012, 05:09:16 PM »
It's hilarious when Americans try to give themselves an ethnic label. "Oh look, I totally feel Irish, my grandmom's mom came from Ireland! Go St. Patrick" "I am zozally zeeh German, my grandfather was from Germany, Bier und Bratwurst jawohl!"
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 05:10:16 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #234 on: November 28, 2012, 05:15:32 PM »
Outside of the Jesuits I would have know in school, Orthodoxy is an irrelevant part of life even though the most famous of Cincinnati foods was given to us by Orthodox.

Orthonorm, are you from Cincinnati? Did you go to St. X? I did  :)

Sorta. No.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #235 on: November 28, 2012, 05:18:57 PM »
Yes, and.....your point is.....?  
The Vatican had no shortage of its English sheep in its American flock from the beginning.

That's as may be.  It doesn't change the substantive meaning of Mary's post, though.  You've heard the expression, "birds of a feather flock together", haven't you?  Well, such was the case with Catholic parishes in the U.S. in the 19th and early 20th centuries.  Poles went to Polish parishes, Irish went to Irish parishes, Germans went to German parishes, and so on.  I'm sure there was some small degree of mixing but even now in some places you can see those kinds of groupings.  Only since the various ethnic groups in the U.S. have become more or less assimilated into that so-called "melting pot" have Catholic parishes become more ethnically homogeneous.

It seems as though you're pressing a different point here which is distorting the point Mary was trying to make earlier.
What point was that?

I'm aware of the ethnocentrism of the Vatican's parishes here back when it was everywhere in Latin, pointing out that the Orthodox would have the same unmistakable mark is the DL was in English everywhere.  The English sheep (and for long, that included the Vatican's shepherd for the US) were not exempt, except that their ethnicity dominated society at large in the US, aided by the related Irish pushing assimilation, as Archbishop Ireland, the Father of the Orthodox Church in America showed.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 05:19:26 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #236 on: November 28, 2012, 05:21:26 PM »
It's hilarious when Americans try to give themselves an ethnic label. "Oh look, I totally feel Irish, my grandmom's mom came from Ireland! Go St. Patrick" "I am zozally zeeh German, my grandfather was from Germany, Bier und Bratwurst jawohl!"

America just makes more absurd what was absurd all along (though you Europeans couldn't figure out while busy killing each other for forever): identity.

Probably the most clear and succinct thing Derrida ever wrote was (and thus thoroughly complex and puzzling): America is deconstruction.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #237 on: November 28, 2012, 05:22:38 PM »
BTW I self identify as an Anglo ethnically, though most people with heavy English ancestry just call themselves American or white.
Hard to assert your identity when everyone sees it as the default.  How many people think of Bob Hope as English?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #238 on: November 28, 2012, 05:27:07 PM »
Unfortunately the map leaves a few questions unanswered: 1. What is meant by *claiming* English ancestry?; 2. How much English does English ancestry have to have to be English? 3. The "English" themselves are mix of other ethnicities, so how does that figure in?; 4. Perhaps most importantly relative to Mary's comment, how many of those claiming English ancestry were Catholic in the mid to late 19th and early 20th centuries compared to the other ethnicities I listed earlier?

Case in point.  One of my Ukrainian Jewish grandmothers was actually born in England.  Does that make her English?  She certainly was English by nationality until she emigrated to the U.S.  Can I, therefore, claim English ancestry through her? 
Is she German?

Well, her nationality is English.  I'm pretty sure she's got a lot of German ancestry and ancestry from other ethnicities too.

As for the complications you introduce, is there any ethnicity, in the US or elsewhere, free of them?

I only introduced those complications to try to point out what I said in another post, that you seem to be pressing a point (which I've yet to figure out what it is  :-[ ??? ;D) separate from the one Mary made and which was distorting it.



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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #239 on: November 28, 2012, 05:30:31 PM »
BTW I self identify as an Anglo ethnically, though most people with heavy English ancestry just call themselves American or white.

Anglo isn't English. It can have broader accepted connotations: British. For some people: White person.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #240 on: November 28, 2012, 05:30:54 PM »
America is deconstruction.
Hah so I take it you don't/do like REM's "Fables of the Reconstruction" (sp?)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 05:31:02 PM by Achronos »
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #241 on: November 28, 2012, 05:32:33 PM »
BTW I self identify as an Anglo ethnically, though most people with heavy English ancestry just call themselves American or white.
Hard to assert your identity when everyone sees it as the default.  How many people think of Bob Hope as English?

Everybody who knows he was born in England, I reckon.  But after becoming naturalized and being in the U.S. for so long, he, like millions of other immigrants became "American" and was identified as such.  Even lost whatever English accent he had, although he didn't live in England all that long.
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #242 on: November 28, 2012, 05:39:12 PM »
BTW I self identify as an Anglo ethnically, though most people with heavy English ancestry just call themselves American or white.
Hard to assert your identity when everyone sees it as the default.  How many people think of Bob Hope as English?

Everybody who knows he was born in England, I reckon.  But after becoming naturalized and being in the U.S. for so long, he, like millions of other immigrants became "American" and was identified as such.  Even lost whatever English accent he had, although he didn't live in England all that long.
Btw, he was an English-American sheep of the Vatican.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #243 on: November 28, 2012, 05:40:01 PM »
BTW I self identify as an Anglo ethnically, though most people with heavy English ancestry just call themselves American or white.
Hard to assert your identity when everyone sees it as the default.  How many people think of Bob Hope as English?

Where do you live?

"Anglo" nor "English" would be the default around here.

It would be:

Irish
German
Price Hill
OTR
West End
Avondale
8th and State
and
and
and
and

There is no default.

Most white people are going to be some Irish, German, Italian combo and they might answer that if you asked them where they are from.

Black people?

If I asked them where they are from, I will get their neighborhood (we have very tiny ones in provincial German style Cincinnati) and maybe an intersection.

They wouldn't say Africa, unless are recently from there or are extreme outliers in how they view their identity.

Of course these answers would all change depending on who asked and where they were asked.

Isa, you should know this, having lived all around.

Nationality and ethnicity are plastic concepts which are relational and exist in opposition and conditioned by circumstance.

What do you claim?

I've heard Arab, German, Chicagoan, maybe even some Scandinavian thing tossed in there by you. But I could be misremembering.

 
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Offline izrima

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #244 on: November 28, 2012, 05:41:02 PM »
Their football team beats ours pretty often.

The football team is pretty good. The interest in high school football in OH is a bit scary and looks quite weird once you step back (e.g. move to Seattle).

Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #245 on: November 28, 2012, 05:48:20 PM »
BTW I self identify as an Anglo ethnically, though most people with heavy English ancestry just call themselves American or white.
Hard to assert your identity when everyone sees it as the default.  How many people think of Bob Hope as English?

Everybody who knows he was born in England, I reckon.  But after becoming naturalized and being in the U.S. for so long, he, like millions of other immigrants became "American" and was identified as such.  Even lost whatever English accent he had, although he didn't live in England all that long.
Btw, he was an English-American sheep of the Vatican.

Yeah...so...?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #246 on: November 28, 2012, 05:54:22 PM »
Their football team beats ours pretty often.

The football team is pretty good. The interest in high school football in OH is a bit scary and looks quite weird once you step back (e.g. move to Seattle).

Yeah, Seattle is a taste of "reality".

Nein danke.

Try going to Texas and see what high school football is about.

SW Ohio, Cincinnati in particular, is quite different from the rest of Ohio in the importance placed on HS football.

There are interesting reasons for this phenomenon which aren't terrible bad and actually quite good, IMHO. Although I don't care for football at all.
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #247 on: November 28, 2012, 06:03:30 PM »
This thread makes me glad I live in a so-called "minority-majority" city (42% "white"), where no matter what background someone appears to be from, you'd probably not risk much offense assuming that they're Hispanic (since, of course, Hispanics can be white, too, and a lot of people here claim Hispanic dissent via Spain, for obvious historical reasons). It eliminates this kind of arguing. Everybody enjoys their preferred color of chili and gets on with their lives.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #248 on: November 28, 2012, 06:10:09 PM »
" Nationality and ethnicity are plastic concepts which are relational and exist in opposition and conditioned by circumstance."-orthonorm


Soo.. I'm sure you apply this to Israel and the Jews as well.  ;)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #249 on: November 28, 2012, 06:11:12 PM »
BTW I self identify as an Anglo ethnically, though most people with heavy English ancestry just call themselves American or white.
Hard to assert your identity when everyone sees it as the default.  How many people think of Bob Hope as English?

Where do you live?

"Anglo" nor "English" would be the default around here.

It would be:

Irish
German
Price Hill
OTR
West End
Avondale
8th and State
and
and
and
and

There is no default.

Most white people are going to be some Irish, German, Italian combo and they might answer that if you asked them where they are from.

Black people?

If I asked them where they are from, I will get their neighborhood (we have very tiny ones in provincial German style Cincinnati) and maybe an intersection.

They wouldn't say Africa, unless are recently from there or are extreme outliers in how they view their identity.

Of course these answers would all change depending on who asked and where they were asked.

Isa, you should know this, having lived all around.

Nationality and ethnicity are plastic concepts which are relational and exist in opposition and conditioned by circumstance.

What do you claim?

I've heard Arab, German, Chicagoan, maybe even some Scandinavian thing tossed in there by you. But I could be misremembering.
Last I checked Ohio was still a Common Law jurisdiction.  And English the default language (at least every time I've been there).

Ohioans have a familiarity with the English Medieval legacy (Robin Hood, King Arthur, knights etc.) while they don't with that of Spain, France or Germany, let alone knowing what or who were the Missippians, Hopewell and the culture of Fort Ancient.

And they celebrate the Fourth of July even if their ancestors no where near the New World in 1776, and trace their state and society's roots in Jamestowne, as opposed to Quebec as required by the Quebec Act.

Btw, no, you are not misremembering.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #250 on: November 28, 2012, 06:14:11 PM »
This thread makes me glad I live in a so-called "minority-majority" city (42% "white"), where no matter what background someone appears to be from, you'd probably not risk much offense assuming that they're Hispanic (since, of course, Hispanics can be white, too, and a lot of people here claim Hispanic dissent via Spain, for obvious historical reasons). It eliminates this kind of arguing. Everybody enjoys their preferred color of chili and gets on with their lives.
I grew up around black culture, believe me, from my experience their much more hung up on race than us working class white tax-slaves.

And that's the most important color when it comes to it..........Green.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #251 on: November 28, 2012, 06:18:51 PM »
Is she German?
The scion of the House Saxe-Coburg and Gotha?  Yes, she is.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #252 on: November 28, 2012, 06:21:24 PM »
anyway, for what it's worth, most OC around me are centered around ethnicity, don't get me wrong, most of the RC parishes around here were distincly Italian, Irish and Polish. But as the parishes became "diverse" the fabric that held them together, like language, heritage and culture soon came undone match that with banning the Latin at Mass and the liberalism of post V-II became a lethal combo for the old ethnic parishes, most in the urban areas closed down while many of the Orthodox, especially the ethno-centric ones are still around and some even are thriving. I find the more ethinc they are, the more vibrant and populated they are.

There something to be said about not forgetting where you came from.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #253 on: November 28, 2012, 06:24:41 PM »
This thread makes me glad I live in a so-called "minority-majority" city (42% "white"), where no matter what background someone appears to be from, you'd probably not risk much offense assuming that they're Hispanic (since, of course, Hispanics can be white, too, and a lot of people here claim Hispanic dissent via Spain, for obvious historical reasons). It eliminates this kind of arguing. Everybody enjoys their preferred color of chili and gets on with their lives.

Around here people who ID more with the "native peoples" use Laitno/a and those who tend to ID more with Spain go Hispanic. Or that is how it seems to me.

To my ears anymore Hispanic sounds either a bit old-fashioned or slightlyhighfalutin.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #254 on: November 28, 2012, 06:28:36 PM »
Is she German?
The scion of the House Saxe-Coburg and Gotha?  Yes, she is.
That makes here Saxe-Coburg and Gothian, which no longer exists.  There was no Germany when the Hanovers got the name (and blood).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #255 on: November 28, 2012, 06:29:33 PM »
This thread makes me glad I live in a so-called "minority-majority" city (42% "white"), where no matter what background someone appears to be from, you'd probably not risk much offense assuming that they're Hispanic (since, of course, Hispanics can be white, too, and a lot of people here claim Hispanic dissent via Spain, for obvious historical reasons). It eliminates this kind of arguing. Everybody enjoys their preferred color of chili and gets on with their lives.

Around here people who ID more with the "native peoples" use Laitno/a and those who tend to ID more with Spain go Hispanic. Or that is how it seems to me.

To my ears anymore Hispanic sounds either a bit old-fashioned or slightlyhighfalutin.
Latinos/Spanish/Hispanics are in no sense native to OH.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #256 on: November 28, 2012, 06:35:56 PM »
The Vatican had no shortage of its English sheep in its American flock from the beginning.

While there were English Catholics in the colonies, my ancestors were some of them, they were very few.  The Carrolls on the otherhand were Irish.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #257 on: November 28, 2012, 06:47:23 PM »
This thread makes me glad I live in a so-called "minority-majority" city (42% "white"), where no matter what background someone appears to be from, you'd probably not risk much offense assuming that they're Hispanic (since, of course, Hispanics can be white, too, and a lot of people here claim Hispanic dissent via Spain, for obvious historical reasons). It eliminates this kind of arguing. Everybody enjoys their preferred color of chili and gets on with their lives.

Around here people who ID more with the "native peoples" use Laitno/a and those who tend to ID more with Spain go Hispanic. Or that is how it seems to me.

To my ears anymore Hispanic sounds either a bit old-fashioned or slightlyhighfalutin.

Alright. I was just going with what's reported from the census, which lumps the two together ("Hispanic or Latino"). Maybe 'Latino' is a more political term or something. I don't know. I've never had trouble using it, and I am pretty Dove soap-level white. Most people I know use 'Latino' as well, even if they're my hue. It's perhaps a bit more accurate in so far as "Hispanic" isn't really a term you'll hear in Spanish (I guess it would be 'Hispano' or something like that, but, again, I've never heard anybody actually use this term in my daily life) if not referring to Spanish (as in Iberian Peninsula) people. So using that term if you're talking about somebody from anywhere else is like using "English" to refer to every English-speaking person (as though Americans, Brits, various Caribbeans, etc. are all the same). Generally if somebody's using "Hispanic" to refer to Latinos they're non-Latinos who don't know any better, or (in the case of this post) people using a cover-all term that is inaccurate yet easier than having to make all these distinctions every time you want to talk about people from or descended from some Spanish-speaking country.

But I agree that if someone were to use it without clarification, I would assume they're talking about Spanish people. I would not want it used to refer to me, for instance, even though my paternal grandfather actually came from Portugal, which is just the same part of the Peninsula (that's a whole different can of worms, too, re: Portuguese and Brazilians; in my experience, they do not like being associated with the Spanish-speaking world, either in Europe or Latin America).

Offline theistgal

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #258 on: November 28, 2012, 06:50:33 PM »
Theistgal! So glad to see you back!  :)

Thanks cutie.  :-* We'll see how long I last this time!  ;D

FWIW & related to the topic, things I love about the RCC are:

1. Churches everywhere, no problem, ever, in fulfilling "Sunday Obligation"
2. Family heritage: all my family on Mom's side are Catholics & we've traced that going back to at least the 1600's (my Dad's side are all dyed-in-the-wool Methodists  ;D )
3. Strong women - something I admire about Orthodoxy as well.
4. Italian food (seems to be pretty popular around here!)
5. The Rosary - my "go to" prayer when I'm on the road.
6. Funny prayers to saints, like this one to St. Anthony:
    "Tony Tony turn around, something's lost that must be found"  ;D

Things I don't love so much:

1. Sometimes too much top-down interference
2. Sometimes not enough top-down interference
3. Guitar masses et al
4. Priests who ad lib parts of the Mass to fit their homily
5. The "Nazi Salute" blessing I've witnessed twice now at two different RCC churches, where the priest invites everyone in the congregation to hold up their right hands to help him bless someone. I have photos. It's truly bizarre and disturbing.
6. Visionary proponents who push the Rosary on everyone, even though it's really meant to be a PRIVATE devotion, hint hint

That's all I can think of off the top of my head but that should do.  8)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 06:59:02 PM by theistgal »
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline izrima

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #259 on: November 28, 2012, 07:04:44 PM »
Yeah, Seattle is a taste of "reality".

Nein danke.

Oh, I wasn't being "that guy," the guy who moved to the bigger city and looks down on his hometown. I just meant that living outside of the region does give you a new, detached perspective on your home. I love Cincinnati. I'm culturally much more a Cincinnatian than a Seattleite and that isn't going to change, but man, if there aren't some beautiful mountains and good Asian food out here!

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #260 on: November 28, 2012, 07:16:12 PM »
The Vatican had no shortage of its English sheep in its American flock from the beginning.

While there were English Catholics in the colonies, my ancestors were some of them, they were very few.  The Carrolls on the otherhand were Irish.
Having anglicized their names and intermarried with the English (all three pictured above had English mothers), not relevant.

This tangent was occasioned by your coreligionist EM's absolutist claims:
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
Hard to say "ALL" when the earliest settlers got off a ship from their homeland, England, on March 25, 1633 (OS) and had their first mass

and then raised their capital St. Mary around their church

further in their colony, Maryland.  And especially when your archdiocesan cathedral here was founded and presided over by English until a Frenchman in 1817.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:18:28 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #261 on: November 28, 2012, 07:21:18 PM »
Theistgal! So glad to see you back!  :)

Thanks cutie.  :-* We'll see how long I last this time!  ;D

FWIW & related to the topic, things I love about the RCC are:

1. Churches everywhere, no problem, ever, in fulfilling "Sunday Obligation"
2. Family heritage: all my family on Mom's side are Catholics & we've traced that going back to at least the 1600's (my Dad's side are all dyed-in-the-wool Methodists  ;D )
3. Strong women - something I admire about Orthodoxy as well.
4. Italian food (seems to be pretty popular around here!)
5. The Rosary - my "go to" prayer when I'm on the road.
6. Funny prayers to saints, like this one to St. Anthony:
    "Tony Tony turn around, something's lost that must be found"  ;D

Things I don't love so much:

1. Sometimes too much top-down interference
2. Sometimes not enough top-down interference
3. Guitar masses et al
4. Priests who ad lib parts of the Mass to fit their homily
5. The "Nazi Salute" blessing I've witnessed twice now at two different RCC churches, where the priest invites everyone in the congregation to hold up their right hands to help him bless someone. I have photos. It's truly bizarre and disturbing.
6. Visionary proponents who push the Rosary on everyone, even though it's really meant to be a PRIVATE devotion, hint hint

That's all I can think of off the top of my head but that should do.  8)
I was just thinking about something similar to your #6 the other day.  I don't have a big problem with perpetual adoration or adoration in general. I do have a BIG problem with it being seen as the sine qua non of the Church, pushed by the same visionary ilk.

Btw, nice to see you stop by.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:21:38 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #262 on: November 28, 2012, 07:27:49 PM »
Theistgal! So glad to see you back!  :)

Thanks cutie.  :-* We'll see how long I last this time!  ;D

FWIW & related to the topic, things I love about the RCC are:

1. Churches everywhere, no problem, ever, in fulfilling "Sunday Obligation"
2. Family heritage: all my family on Mom's side are Catholics & we've traced that going back to at least the 1600's (my Dad's side are all dyed-in-the-wool Methodists  ;D )
3. Strong women - something I admire about Orthodoxy as well.
4. Italian food (seems to be pretty popular around here!)
5. The Rosary - my "go to" prayer when I'm on the road.
6. Funny prayers to saints, like this one to St. Anthony:
    "Tony Tony turn around, something's lost that must be found"  ;D

Things I don't love so much:

1. Sometimes too much top-down interference
2. Sometimes not enough top-down interference
3. Guitar masses et al
4. Priests who ad lib parts of the Mass to fit their homily
5. The "Nazi Salute" blessing I've witnessed twice now at two different RCC churches, where the priest invites everyone in the congregation to hold up their right hands to help him bless someone. I have photos. It's truly bizarre and disturbing.
6. Visionary proponents who push the Rosary on everyone, even though it's really meant to be a PRIVATE devotion, hint hint

That's all I can think of off the top of my head but that should do.  8)
I was just thinking about something similar to your #6 the other day.  I don't have a big problem with perpetual adoration or adoration in general. I do have a BIG problem with it being seen as the sine qua non of the Church, pushed by the same visionary ilk.

Btw, nice to see you stop by.
Surprised to read this. I thought you would have agreed with the idea that by adoring the Eucharist in addition to consuming the Eucharist, we Catholics were violating its intended purpose.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline choy

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #263 on: November 28, 2012, 07:33:29 PM »
I was just thinking about something similar to your #6 the other day.  I don't have a big problem with perpetual adoration or adoration in general. I do have a BIG problem with it being seen as the sine qua non of the Church, pushed by the same visionary ilk.

I agree.  Seems that a lot of what the RC Church is today is what has been received as "private revelations" by visionaries in the last 200 years.

Also, most people seem to be to hung up on Liturgical rubrics rather than deeper spirituality.  They seem to think that receiving Communion on a communion rail kneeling, and the host is placed on their tongue, will instantly make them better Christians.

Offline Papist

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #264 on: November 28, 2012, 07:36:26 PM »
I was just thinking about something similar to your #6 the other day.  I don't have a big problem with perpetual adoration or adoration in general. I do have a BIG problem with it being seen as the sine qua non of the Church, pushed by the same visionary ilk.

I agree.  Seems that a lot of what the RC Church is today is what has been received as "private revelations" by visionaries in the last 200 years.

Also, most people seem to be to hung up on Liturgical rubrics rather than deeper spirituality.  They seem to think that receiving Communion on a communion rail kneeling, and the host is placed on their tongue, will instantly make them better Christians.
I wouldn't be so quick to judge the motives of fellow Christians. I happen to be some one who believes that we should re-install our communion rails in order to help facilitate a great attitude of reverence. That doesn't mean that I, or anyone else that I know, thinks communion rails automatically equals better Christians. But it certainly helps with the lex orendi, lex credendi part of our faith.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:36:50 PM by Papist »
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #265 on: November 28, 2012, 07:38:20 PM »
Theistgal! So glad to see you back!  :)

Thanks cutie.  :-* We'll see how long I last this time!  ;D

FWIW & related to the topic, things I love about the RCC are:

1. Churches everywhere, no problem, ever, in fulfilling "Sunday Obligation"
2. Family heritage: all my family on Mom's side are Catholics & we've traced that going back to at least the 1600's (my Dad's side are all dyed-in-the-wool Methodists  ;D )
3. Strong women - something I admire about Orthodoxy as well.
4. Italian food (seems to be pretty popular around here!)
5. The Rosary - my "go to" prayer when I'm on the road.
6. Funny prayers to saints, like this one to St. Anthony:
    "Tony Tony turn around, something's lost that must be found"  ;D

Things I don't love so much:

1. Sometimes too much top-down interference
2. Sometimes not enough top-down interference
3. Guitar masses et al
4. Priests who ad lib parts of the Mass to fit their homily
5. The "Nazi Salute" blessing I've witnessed twice now at two different RCC churches, where the priest invites everyone in the congregation to hold up their right hands to help him bless someone. I have photos. It's truly bizarre and disturbing.
6. Visionary proponents who push the Rosary on everyone, even though it's really meant to be a PRIVATE devotion, hint hint

That's all I can think of off the top of my head but that should do.  8)
I was just thinking about something similar to your #6 the other day.  I don't have a big problem with perpetual adoration or adoration in general. I do have a BIG problem with it being seen as the sine qua non of the Church, pushed by the same visionary ilk.

Btw, nice to see you stop by.
Surprised to read this. I thought you would have agreed with the idea that by adoring the Eucharist in addition to consuming the Eucharist, we Catholics were violating its intended purpose.
I hesitate to mention that I prostrate if I go in a church and it is going on, lest you drop dead.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Papist

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #266 on: November 28, 2012, 07:40:43 PM »
Theistgal! So glad to see you back!  :)

Thanks cutie.  :-* We'll see how long I last this time!  ;D

FWIW & related to the topic, things I love about the RCC are:

1. Churches everywhere, no problem, ever, in fulfilling "Sunday Obligation"
2. Family heritage: all my family on Mom's side are Catholics & we've traced that going back to at least the 1600's (my Dad's side are all dyed-in-the-wool Methodists  ;D )
3. Strong women - something I admire about Orthodoxy as well.
4. Italian food (seems to be pretty popular around here!)
5. The Rosary - my "go to" prayer when I'm on the road.
6. Funny prayers to saints, like this one to St. Anthony:
    "Tony Tony turn around, something's lost that must be found"  ;D

Things I don't love so much:

1. Sometimes too much top-down interference
2. Sometimes not enough top-down interference
3. Guitar masses et al
4. Priests who ad lib parts of the Mass to fit their homily
5. The "Nazi Salute" blessing I've witnessed twice now at two different RCC churches, where the priest invites everyone in the congregation to hold up their right hands to help him bless someone. I have photos. It's truly bizarre and disturbing.
6. Visionary proponents who push the Rosary on everyone, even though it's really meant to be a PRIVATE devotion, hint hint

That's all I can think of off the top of my head but that should do.  8)
I was just thinking about something similar to your #6 the other day.  I don't have a big problem with perpetual adoration or adoration in general. I do have a BIG problem with it being seen as the sine qua non of the Church, pushed by the same visionary ilk.

Btw, nice to see you stop by.
Surprised to read this. I thought you would have agreed with the idea that by adoring the Eucharist in addition to consuming the Eucharist, we Catholics were violating its intended purpose.
I hesitate to mention that I prostrate if I go in a church and it is going on, lest you drop dead.
My heart stopped for a moment, but I might survive.  :D
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline theistgal

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #267 on: November 28, 2012, 08:07:42 PM »
I agree.  Seems that a lot of what the RC Church is today is what has been received as "private revelations" by visionaries in the last 200 years.

FWIW, though, you may have noticed I placed Bernadette (who had the Lourdes visions) in my list of favorite saints. I've read a lot of books about her, some written by her contemporaries, family members and fellow nuns. She was a lot more complex than the simplistic character Hollywood created in "The Song of Bernadette" - a very spunky and brave little gal.

And unlike Mr. Grant, I love spunk. ( bonus points if you get the reference!  ;D )
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Shiny

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #268 on: November 28, 2012, 08:14:18 PM »
Awesome theistgal is back!

Nice to see you again, how are you?
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #269 on: November 28, 2012, 08:15:26 PM »
All that private devotions stuff (and the novenas and whatnot built around them) is something I struggled with when I was RC. While I know that they're technically not required belief, in my experience not believing them effectively places you outside of the RC mainstream (at least so far as concerns the Latin Church specifically), and many people will treat you accordingly. "How can you not believe in X, Y, Z? Aren't you Catholic?" It can be pretty discouraging.