Author Topic: Why is RCC so attractive?  (Read 15183 times)

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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #180 on: November 28, 2012, 11:07:05 AM »
What I like about it:

1. Latin Mass
2. Latin Fathers (Sts. Ambrose, Augustine, etc.)
3. Scholasticism
4. Diversity. Many different rites. Latin, eastern and oriental theology is allowed to co-exist to some degree.

What I don't like about it:

1. Papal infallability, universal jurisdiction, filioque
2. Novus Ordo
3. Silly devotions like the sacred heart and an obsession with private revelations (these two often go hand in hand)
4. The bad kind of ecumenism
5. The focus on the flesh and emotions. This is often seen in their art, devotions etc.
6. Extreme legalism which causes OCD.
I have OCD, and from what I understand, it's genetic. It doesn't come from the Church.

I was thinking about this. Sorry if you were offended by my harsh wording.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 11:08:58 AM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Papist

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #181 on: November 28, 2012, 11:32:08 AM »
What I like about it:

1. Latin Mass
2. Latin Fathers (Sts. Ambrose, Augustine, etc.)
3. Scholasticism
4. Diversity. Many different rites. Latin, eastern and oriental theology is allowed to co-exist to some degree.

What I don't like about it:

1. Papal infallability, universal jurisdiction, filioque
2. Novus Ordo
3. Silly devotions like the sacred heart and an obsession with private revelations (these two often go hand in hand)
4. The bad kind of ecumenism
5. The focus on the flesh and emotions. This is often seen in their art, devotions etc.
6. Extreme legalism which causes OCD.
I have OCD, and from what I understand, it's genetic. It doesn't come from the Church.

I was thinking about this. Sorry if you were offended by my harsh wording.
I'm not offended at all. If anything has helped me to deal with OCD effectively, it has been the kind patientience of my confessor. 
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Online Nicene

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #182 on: November 28, 2012, 11:39:27 AM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.
Thank you.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #183 on: November 28, 2012, 11:51:27 AM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #184 on: November 28, 2012, 11:55:09 AM »
Ah, if we're talking distances anyway here I go. For me it's 2 minutes on foot to the nearest RC parish and 5 minutes on bike if I want a Latin NO mass. The closest Orthodox parish is 55 minutes away on bike.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 11:56:40 AM by Cyrillic »
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Online Nicene

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #185 on: November 28, 2012, 11:57:18 AM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.
Thank you.

Offline Shiny

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #186 on: November 28, 2012, 12:18:33 PM »
In all honesty it would be much easier to get married to a catholic woman because there is a larger selection to choose from. Atleast that makes it attractive to me.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #187 on: November 28, 2012, 12:39:34 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #188 on: November 28, 2012, 01:29:41 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .

Actually, if Orthodoxy somehow comes up, they usually seem surprised that I am Jewish.

A nutty post to be sure.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #189 on: November 28, 2012, 01:38:15 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .

Actually, if Orthodoxy somehow comes up, they usually seem surprised that I am Jewish.

A nutty post to be sure.

What, you're *not* Jewish?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #190 on: November 28, 2012, 01:46:23 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .

Actually, if Orthodoxy somehow comes up, they usually seem surprised that I am Jewish.

A nutty post to be sure.

What, you're *not* Jewish?

Hitler would have spared me. But not all my family. And didn't.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline izrima

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #191 on: November 28, 2012, 01:46:49 PM »
What I don't like about it:

5. Our Lady of Fatima

Could someone explain this objection? I don't know a ton about Fatima. Is there a common Orthodox objection to Fatima?

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #192 on: November 28, 2012, 01:52:53 PM »
What I don't like about it:

5. Our Lady of Fatima

Could someone explain this objection? I don't know a ton about Fatima. Is there a common Orthodox objection to Fatima?

There is are "theological" reasons why the Orthodox tend to be less accepting of such "visitations". And this one is made more complex due to political reasons.

Someone here who cares to can probably dig up some decent threads on the matter.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #193 on: November 28, 2012, 01:55:15 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .

Actually, if Orthodoxy somehow comes up, they usually seem surprised that I am Jewish.

A nutty post to be sure.

What, you're *not* Jewish?

Hitler would have spared me. But not all my family. And didn't.

Sorry for your loss.  Why would he have spared you?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline theistgal

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #194 on: November 28, 2012, 02:05:46 PM »
What I don't like about it:

5. Our Lady of Fatima

Could someone explain this objection? I don't know a ton about Fatima. Is there a common Orthodox objection to Fatima?

I think one of the objections (other than the one about it being a private revelation) is that the Virgin was quoted as saying that the children should instruct the Pope to pray specifically for "the conversion of Russia". Most Catholics today believe that meant to pray for its conversion from Communism. However, it has unfortunately been interpreted by some to also mean "conversion from Orthodoxy to Catholicism". I don't think that's what was intended but the horse is already out of the barn.
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Offline elijahmaria

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #195 on: November 28, 2012, 02:07:49 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>

Offline Papist

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #196 on: November 28, 2012, 03:07:38 PM »
What I don't like about it:

5. Our Lady of Fatima

Could someone explain this objection? I don't know a ton about Fatima. Is there a common Orthodox objection to Fatima?

I think one of the objections (other than the one about it being a private revelation) is that the Virgin was quoted as saying that the children should instruct the Pope to pray specifically for "the conversion of Russia". Most Catholics today believe that meant to pray for its conversion from Communism. However, it has unfortunately been interpreted by some to also mean "conversion from Orthodoxy to Catholicism". I don't think that's what was intended but the horse is already out of the barn.
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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #197 on: November 28, 2012, 03:08:22 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .
Almost every RC you have met has said this to you? That's surprising.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #198 on: November 28, 2012, 03:08:28 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #199 on: November 28, 2012, 03:10:46 PM »
In all honesty it would be much easier to get married to a catholic woman because there is a larger selection to choose from. Atleast that makes it attractive to me.
Yeah, a lot of dating sites etc. if you are willing to submit to the Vatican.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #200 on: November 28, 2012, 03:12:43 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>

In Western Europe the RC parishes have always been composed of natives, Orthodox parishes on the other hand are often very ethnic (with a few notable exceptions, but even then the majority is foreigner).
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 03:12:51 PM by Cyrillic »
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lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
memory and desire, stirring
dull roots with spring rain."
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #201 on: November 28, 2012, 03:13:44 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .
Almost every RC you have met has said this to you? That's surprising.
Consider who wrote it  ;D.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #202 on: November 28, 2012, 03:20:34 PM »
In all honesty it would be much easier to get married to a catholic woman because there is a larger selection to choose from. Atleast that makes it attractive to me.
Yeah, a lot of dating sites etc. if you are willing to submit to the Vatican.

Where do I sign?  :P
"April is the cruellest month, breeding
lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
memory and desire, stirring
dull roots with spring rain."
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Offline izrima

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #203 on: November 28, 2012, 03:27:06 PM »
What I don't like about it:

5. Our Lady of Fatima

Could someone explain this objection? I don't know a ton about Fatima. Is there a common Orthodox objection to Fatima?

I think one of the objections (other than the one about it being a private revelation) is that the Virgin was quoted as saying that the children should instruct the Pope to pray specifically for "the conversion of Russia". Most Catholics today believe that meant to pray for its conversion from Communism. However, it has unfortunately been interpreted by some to also mean "conversion from Orthodoxy to Catholicism". I don't think that's what was intended but the horse is already out of the barn.

Ah, ok--that makes sense. My grandmother is in her mid-80s now and still remembers as a young Catholic schoolgirl being instructed to pray for the salvation of Russia. Her memories are hazy, but I think the words she mentioned were something along the lines of "God save Russia." And if you've ever read Fr. Walter Ciszek's "With God in Russia," it seems like the Vatican was using the Russicum as a means of fighting communism at least back in the 20s and 30s when Fr. Walter was there.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #204 on: November 28, 2012, 03:27:42 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.

That's arguable, but basically irrelevant for this discussion.  I'm pretty sure you and most others here know what Mary meant by that--you know--Polish, French, Ukrainian, Irish, Italian, Lithuanian, Slovakian, Hungarian, Lemko, German, etc., and yes, even some English (British), and native-born American.  Mostly if not completely all white but most definitely *not* all English.  (Apologies if I've overlooked any other ethnicities.)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 03:47:13 PM by J Michael »
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #205 on: November 28, 2012, 03:43:11 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .

Actually, if Orthodoxy somehow comes up, they usually seem surprised that I am Jewish.

A nutty post to be sure.
There's one right across the street from my RC Church, I was never interested.

Although there's a Greek one not to far away that's always intrigued me a bit.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #206 on: November 28, 2012, 03:50:32 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .

Actually, if Orthodoxy somehow comes up, they usually seem surprised that I am Jewish.

A nutty post to be sure.

What, you're *not* Jewish?

Hitler would have spared me. But not all my family. And didn't.

Sorry for your loss.  Why would he have spared you?
Maybe he had only 1 Jewish grandparent.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #207 on: November 28, 2012, 04:03:56 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.

Ummmmmmmmmmm,

This has to be the most insane thing you have ever said here.

Please explain this to me without recourse to maps, tons of web quotes, etc.

I would be hard pressed to think of anyone I know of who would define themselves as English (the could very be without knowing it). Having spent time around the English, I would have a hard time (thank God) thinking of anyone who reminds me of them.

German. Ok.
Irish. Ok.
Black American. Ok.
Jewish. Ok.
Italian. Ok.
Belgian. Ok.
Dutch. Ok.
Ethiopian. Ok.
American. Ok.
Southern American. Ok.
Scots-Irish. Ok.
Russian. Ok.
Romanian. Ok.
Belorussian Ok.
Polish. Ok.
Arab. Ok.
Israeli. Ok.
Morrocan. Ok.
Chinese. Ok.

I am going to stop, but I could keep going. This is literally going through the people I come in contact with on a day to day basis.

The majority of people I see are not even of European descent or at least so little you can't tell and they don't consider themselves to be.

And those who are of European descent, I cannot think of ONE person who would claim English.

 
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #208 on: November 28, 2012, 04:04:18 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .

Actually, if Orthodoxy somehow comes up, they usually seem surprised that I am Jewish.

A nutty post to be sure.

What, you're *not* Jewish?

Hitler would have spared me. But not all my family. And didn't.

Sorry for your loss.  Why would he have spared you?
Maybe he had only 1 Jewish grandparent.

Unfortunately for many, even that was 1 too many.  :(
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #209 on: November 28, 2012, 04:10:58 PM »
By attractive what do you mean? Like, I can find the roman catholic church here in NZ attractive because theres a church literally only a ten minute walk away instead of my orthodox church which is an hour away by Bus, train and walking.

I'm pretty sure that we're not discussing the relationship between what draws you to something and how geographically close or distant it is to you. ;)  I guess, though, that that could be a factor for some.
It certaintly is for me. Thats one reason why I think alot of people would find it attractive in the west because its so easily accessible. Though I prefer truth over the easy solution.

What it seems that you're saying, or at least implying (please correct me if I'm wrong), is that distance is really *not* a factor for you but it is for many others in the west who are not interested in the truth.  Did I get that right?

Almost every RC I have met has told me, if only there were an Orthodox parish near-by . . .
Almost every RC you have met has said this to you? That's surprising.

Pert near.

Outside of the Jesuits I would have know in school, Orthodoxy is an irrelevant part of life even though the most famous of Cincinnati foods was given to us by Orthodox.

If I say Orthodox without qualification, it is almost always assumed I am speaking of Jews.

If I say Orthodox Christian, I hear almost always, you mean that Russian Catholics or Greeks Catholics, if the person is Protestant or areligious, if the person is Catholic is often just weird what they have to say.

I am talking man on the street folks not some theology or history Professor.

Been through this sorta thing at least 100 times. I am not kidding.

Now where the Orthodox are more common, I am sure it is different.

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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #210 on: November 28, 2012, 04:14:41 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.
Actually I believe it's German.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #211 on: November 28, 2012, 04:16:09 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.

Ummmmmmmmmmm,

This has to be the most insane thing you have ever said here.

Please explain this to me without recourse to maps, tons of web quotes, etc.

I would be hard pressed to think of anyone I know of who would define themselves as English (the could very be without knowing it). Having spent time around the English, I would have a hard time (thank God) thinking of anyone who reminds me of them.

German. Ok.
Irish. Ok.
Black American. Ok.
Jewish. Ok.
Italian. Ok.
Belgian. Ok.
Dutch. Ok.
Ethiopian. Ok.
American. Ok.
Southern American. Ok.
Scots-Irish. Ok.
Russian. Ok.
Romanian. Ok.
Belorussian Ok.
Polish. Ok.
Arab. Ok.
Israeli. Ok.
Morrocan. Ok.
Chinese. Ok.

I am going to stop, but I could keep going. This is literally going through the people I come in contact with on a day to day basis.

The majority of people I see are not even of European descent or at least so little you can't tell and they don't consider themselves to be.

And those who are of European descent, I cannot think of ONE person who would claim English.

 
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #212 on: November 28, 2012, 04:20:26 PM »
From Wiki;

"German Americans made up 17.1% of the U.S. population followed by Irish Americans at 12% as counted in the 2000 U.S. Census. This makes German the largest, and Irish the second-largest, self-reported ancestry groups in the U.S. The largest Central European ancestry (if Germany is considered a Western European, not Central European country) was Polish,[citation needed] counting both Catholic Poles and Polish Jews.[citation needed] The largest Eastern European ancestry was Russian,[citation needed] including a recent influx of Ashkenazi Jews.[citation needed] There were other significant ancestries from Central, Eastern and Southern Europe, especially Italy (see Italian American and Sicilian American), as well as from French Canada."[/i]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States#White_Americans
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #213 on: November 28, 2012, 04:20:53 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.
Actually I believe it's German.
No, they have been keeping a lower profile ever since the World Wars.

The Germans lost the vote for translating legislation into German, although one of our own was running the house.  The US is ruled in English.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #214 on: November 28, 2012, 04:29:19 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.

Ummmmmmmmmmm,

This has to be the most insane thing you have ever said here.

Please explain this to me without recourse to maps, tons of web quotes, etc.

I would be hard pressed to think of anyone I know of who would define themselves as English (the could very be without knowing it). Having spent time around the English, I would have a hard time (thank God) thinking of anyone who reminds me of them.

German. Ok.
Irish. Ok.
Black American. Ok.
Jewish. Ok.
Italian. Ok.
Belgian. Ok.
Dutch. Ok.
Ethiopian. Ok.
American. Ok.
Southern American. Ok.
Scots-Irish. Ok.
Russian. Ok.
Romanian. Ok.
Belorussian Ok.
Polish. Ok.
Arab. Ok.
Israeli. Ok.
Morrocan. Ok.
Chinese. Ok.

I am going to stop, but I could keep going. This is literally going through the people I come in contact with on a day to day basis.

The majority of people I see are not even of European descent or at least so little you can't tell and they don't consider themselves to be.

And those who are of European descent, I cannot think of ONE person who would claim English.

 


Unfortunately the map leaves a few questions unanswered: 1. What is meant by *claiming* English ancestry?; 2. How much English does English ancestry have to have to be English? 3. The "English" themselves are mix of other ethnicities, so how does that figure in?; 4. Perhaps most importantly relative to Mary's comment, how many of those claiming English ancestry were Catholic in the mid to late 19th and early 20th centuries compared to the other ethnicities I listed earlier?

Case in point.  One of my Ukrainian Jewish grandmothers was actually born in England.  Does that make her English?  She certainly was English by nationality until she emigrated to the U.S.  Can I, therefore, claim English ancestry through her? 
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #215 on: November 28, 2012, 04:30:07 PM »
Ok, so can't back up your claim.

Thanks.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #216 on: November 28, 2012, 04:30:56 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.

That's arguable, but basically irrelevant for this discussion.  I'm pretty sure you and most others here know what Mary meant by that--you know--Polish, French, Ukrainian, Irish, Italian, Lithuanian, Slovakian, Hungarian, Lemko, German, etc., and yes, even some English (British), and native-born American.  Mostly if not completely all white but most definitely *not* all English.  (Apologies if I've overlooked any other ethnicities.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_family
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 04:46:54 PM by ialmisry »
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #217 on: November 28, 2012, 04:31:38 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.
Actually I believe it's German.
No, they have been keeping a lower profile ever since the World Wars.

The Germans lost the vote for translating legislation into German, although one of our own was running the house.  The US is ruled in English.

Keeping a lower profile doesn't mean they don't exist and that their numbers are not as reported by Charles' post.

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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #218 on: November 28, 2012, 04:32:45 PM »
Through the history of RCC, I know that it is not the true Church of God .But why is it still so big and so attractive?


And how do RCC Christians view Her corrupted history?

Orthodoxy is little known to most.  RCC has the "marketing brand power" so to speak.  When we speak of Churches with Apostolic lineage and history, she is easily the most recognizable.  And there's a RCC parish everywhere, easy to inquire and become a part of.  Most towns don't have Orthodox parishes, and if there is one it's likely one that is very ethnic and wouldn't attract people who does not belong to that ethnicity.

This is a joke, right?

ALL early Catholic Churches in the US were ethnic churches and they STILL attracted converts...eh?...<G>
English is an ethnicity, the dominant one in the US.

That's arguable, but basically irrelevant for this discussion.  I'm pretty sure you and most others here know what Mary meant by that--you know--Polish, French, Ukrainian, Irish, Italian, Lithuanian, Slovakian, Hungarian, Lemko, German, etc., and yes, even some English (British), and native-born American.  Mostly if not completely all white but most definitely *not* all English.  (Apologies if I've overlooked any other ethnicities.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_family

Yes, and.....your point is.....? 
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline J Michael

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #219 on: November 28, 2012, 04:34:21 PM »
Ok, so can't back up your claim.

Thanks.

To whom is that addressed?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #220 on: November 28, 2012, 04:36:27 PM »
Unfortunately the map leaves a few questions unanswered: 1. What is meant by *claiming* English ancestry?; 2. How much English does English ancestry have to have to be English? 3. The "English" themselves are mix of other ethnicities, so how does that figure in?; 4. Perhaps most importantly relative to Mary's comment, how many of those claiming English ancestry were Catholic in the mid to late 19th and early 20th centuries compared to the other ethnicities I listed earlier?

Case in point.  One of my Ukrainian Jewish grandmothers was actually born in England.  Does that make her English?  She certainly was English by nationality until she emigrated to the U.S.  Can I, therefore, claim English ancestry through her? 
Is she German?


As for the complications you introduce, is there any ethnicity, in the US or elsewhere, free of them?
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #221 on: November 28, 2012, 04:37:05 PM »
Suddenly huge maps and portraits started popping up from out of nowhere.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #222 on: November 28, 2012, 04:37:47 PM »
Yes, and.....your point is.....? 
The Vatican had no shortage of its English sheep in its American flock from the beginning.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #223 on: November 28, 2012, 04:39:40 PM »
Suddenly huge maps and portraits started popping up from out of nowhere.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Shiny

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Re: Why is RCC so attractive?
« Reply #224 on: November 28, 2012, 04:44:01 PM »
Professor, and I am not trying to be critical of you (I like when you post pictures), but I would be more than happy to show you how you can resize images in the body of the text before you post.

It just makes scrolling and actually reading your posts that much better.
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