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Author Topic: Confirmation?  (Read 1011 times) Average Rating: 0
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JamesR
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« on: November 23, 2012, 09:50:52 PM »

So one of my Roman Catholic friends told me that his Church delays Confirmation until High-School and this striked me as very odd. What exactly is the reason for this and when did this change come about? I'm no expert at the Orthodox-Catholic polemics like Professor Isa, but from the little bit I do know, delaying Confirmation/Chrismation until High-School seems entirely unpatristic and in violation with years of Church tradition. It seems very Protestant-in-nature and I am suspicious that this change in the Roman Church was either made under the influence of Protestantism or that it was made as a concession to make the Church appear more appealing to Protestants. Either way, this seems to indicate that the Roman Catholic Church is heading in a very negative, loose direction. It seems like it has practically just become a semi-formal mainline Protestant Church--the only difference being that at least the real semi-formal mainline Protestant Churches (like strict Lutherans or Prestbyterians) seem to be more consistent and serious about their beliefs--as heretical as they may be. Whereas it seems like Rome is just handling things willy-nilly. "Oh, they don't like that? Oh well, just change that!" "Hey Pope, I don't like X, can we change this?" "Sure, go right along and change that too!" "This Mass is too long and boring, let's cut the thing in half!" etc. Where is the sense of direction? 
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« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2012, 12:53:10 AM »

Everyon here gets confirmation when they are 15-16.
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 01:21:45 AM »

In my neck of the woods, RC children are confirmed around seven or eight years old. This has been the norm for as long as I can remember.
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« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2012, 02:32:35 AM »

My high school girlfriend was Catholic and she did not go through the Confirmation process until then.  I think it is to ensure the person knows what they are doing, why they are doing in and want to do it. 
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 02:33:29 AM »

this seems to indicate that the Roman Catholic Church is heading in a very negative, loose direction.  

It's been doing that for well over a thousand years.
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« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 03:31:23 AM »

My high school girlfriend was Catholic and she did not go through the Confirmation process until then.  I think it is to ensure the person knows what they are doing, why they are doing in and want to do it. 

In other words, the same Protestant logic behind "believer's Baptism"? Delaying Confirmation also seems like it promotes competition between the Sacraments, as if some were more important than others and some less important. Like, why allow infant Baptism but not Confirmation? It would imply that Confirmation were superior to Baptism or something, when in reality all the Sacraments are equal and play their own role.
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 03:35:58 AM »

My high school girlfriend was Catholic and she did not go through the Confirmation process until then.  I think it is to ensure the person knows what they are doing, why they are doing in and want to do it. 

In other words, the same Protestant logic behind "believer's Baptism"? Delaying Confirmation also seems like it promotes competition between the Sacraments, as if some were more important than others and some less important. Like, why allow infant Baptism but not Confirmation? It would imply that Confirmation were superior to Baptism or something, when in reality all the Sacraments are equal and play their own role.

You have it backwards. If anything it would imply that baptism is superior because it's necessary that it be done right away instead of waiting 10 or so years.
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 04:14:27 AM »

My high school girlfriend was Catholic and she did not go through the Confirmation process until then.  I think it is to ensure the person knows what they are doing, why they are doing in and want to do it. 

In other words, the same Protestant logic behind "believer's Baptism"? Delaying Confirmation also seems like it promotes competition between the Sacraments, as if some were more important than others and some less important. Like, why allow infant Baptism but not Confirmation? It would imply that Confirmation were superior to Baptism or something, when in reality all the Sacraments are equal and play their own role.

I think you may be looking at this from the wrong view point.  You and I see it completely differently.  Think of the word Confirmation, and its root word, Confirm.  What do you think the person is confirming?  I just did a google search and there is A LOT of information on this for you to review, if you so choose.  There is a pretty simple video on YouTube called Sacrament 101: Confirmation.
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2012, 07:31:31 AM »

this is the history of it:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48014.msg838637.html#msg838637

confirmation is the same (if you look at comparative traditions) as what we orthodox Christians call chrismation.
the main reason why late confirmation is bad is that it delays Holy Communion.
this is why we allow priests to baptise and chrismate Christians, so that there is no delay.
i don't think you can blame the protestants for this one, as the delay between baptism and chrismation started way before 1500.

childhood is difficult enough, to attempt it without Holy Communion seems to be a useless diversion from a long spiritual journey.
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« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2012, 07:42:13 AM »

the main reason why late confirmation is bad is that it delays Holy Communion.

Roman Catholics have their 1st Communion prior to confirmation (at least here).
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« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2012, 07:45:01 AM »

oh, maybe they invented 'first communion' instead of confirmation, thus adding a new sacremental step!
i wonder when that started? i had assumed 'first communion' followed confirmation.
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2012, 07:53:33 AM »

They have first Communion in the age of 8 and confrmation (aka the last sacrament / the sacrament of the farewell with the Church) at the age of 15.
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2012, 07:57:27 AM »

They have first Communion in the age of 8 and confrmation (aka the last sacrament / the sacrament of the farewell with the Church) at the age of 15.

I understand this the trend currently here in the States.

Pushing Communion back and pushing Confirmation forward.

Is that the correct use of back and forward? I am not good with time metaphors.

At one time you do did both around age 12 or something. Some RC can offer better details.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 07:58:24 AM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2012, 08:15:16 AM »

I was a practicing RC until my reception a yr ago. I am 62.mimhad Communion at 6 and was confirmed at 8. This was the practice at least in hCincinnati. I was surprised that I was not chrismated but received by confession of faith.
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2012, 08:20:26 AM »

I was a practicing RC until my reception a yr ago. I am 62.mimhad Communion at 6 and was confirmed at 8. This was the practice at least in hCincinnati. I was surprised that I was not chrismated but received by confession of faith.

Different jurisdictions and Bishops handle the reception of heterodox differently from each and differently depending of the body the heterodox is coming from.

Being received as an RC via a confession of faith and through Confession is not unheard of.
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2012, 10:26:52 AM »

My cousins all got confirmed around 12 or so. Whether they had any more idea of what they were getting into than when they were infants is another question.
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2012, 11:29:16 AM »

When I was RC, I received the following sacraments:

First Communion - grade 4
Confirmation - grade 5
Profession of Faith - grade 7

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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2012, 02:22:24 PM »

I was given first communion in second grade and confirmed in eighth grade.
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2012, 02:27:12 PM »

I can add to what Michal Kalina has written that in Poland the preparation to receive this sacrament is really bad organised and that's why it's called "the sacrament of the farewell with the Church". The preparation begins in the last year of the school called gymnasium (it's the secondary school) and ends when it's finishing (not appropriate time because of important exams to High School) or in the beginning of High School (the third school) - also not appropriate, because usually people attend this school in completely different district than they live and of their previous schools. You can ask how the changing of school depends on the Church issues? Well, you prepare for the confirmation in your parish or in the parish which is the closes to gymnasium you attend. And every parish has its own rules for preparation process, and you have 2 options: finish the preparation in your previous parish or discuss with the new one.

The process of preparation consists of going after every Mass and service to priests with special index to sign that you were present and some meetings in groups (but, generally, young people, if they are not believers, make troubles during these meetings). The all stuff is really formalised and I know many people, including me, who although are practicing, couldn't receive the sacrament because of arguments with priests on formal issues and non-believers receive this sacrament, but now they don't attend Church anymore (probably some of them they appear in church again for wedding).

I was expelled from the confirmation just 4 days before the ceremony, because in the parish there were big changes (also in clergymen) and because of my Orthodox views (earlier for them it was not problem). It was really tragic for me, although I was considering conversion to Orthodoxy even before this year of preparation, but my spiritual father said I should be cofirmated in RC Church because in Orthodoxy mainly rituals attract me (of course it was not true, but the fact is that I wasn't prepared to convert in this time when I was 15). Well, generally it's long story and difficult to describe it, however  my unrealized confirmation brought me into Orthodoxy Wink

I know that before the reform of education (there used to be the first and the secondary schools) the situation was a bit better and people used to be confirmated in younger age - 1-2 year after the first Communion in the age of 7-8
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2012, 07:29:15 PM »

When I was RC, I received the following sacraments:

First Communion - grade 4
Confirmation - grade 5


I received First Communion around age 8, then Confirmation at 12 or so, as far as I remember.
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« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2012, 08:11:32 PM »

rcc wise, i was communed in 2nd grade, and confirmed at 8th grade



loosely remember from the Catechism of the Catholic Church: Communion at the age of reason, 7, and confirmation at 14ish, the age of soemthing i cant remember.
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« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2012, 08:20:48 PM »

When I was RC, I received the following sacraments:

First Communion - grade 4
Confirmation - grade 5
Profession of Faith - grade 7
Profession of Faith? What's that? And what were you professing in grades 4 and 5?
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« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2012, 09:04:12 PM »

The Profession of Faith is a confirmation of baptism for those who were baptized when they were babies. In the case of infant baptism, the parents decide in the name of the child to make him Christian. The Profession of Faith is pronounced by a teenager when he is old enough to proclaim himself Christian, it shows that one agrees with the decision made earlier by the parents.
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2012, 09:24:09 AM »

I was listening to Catholic radio the other day and I heard a Priest saying that Communion would be given earlier, as a return to something ancient. Anyone hear of this and if so what age are they establishing for first communion, earlier than 7?
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2012, 09:51:03 AM »

The Profession of Faith is a confirmation of baptism for those who were baptized when they were babies. In the case of infant baptism, the parents decide in the name of the child to make him Christian. The Profession of Faith is pronounced by a teenager when he is old enough to proclaim himself Christian, it shows that one agrees with the decision made earlier by the parents.
as opposed to "confirmation"?
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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2012, 11:02:47 AM »

The Profession of Faith is a confirmation of baptism for those who were baptized when they were babies. In the case of infant baptism, the parents decide in the name of the child to make him Christian. The Profession of Faith is pronounced by a teenager when he is old enough to proclaim himself Christian, it shows that one agrees with the decision made earlier by the parents.
as opposed to "confirmation"?

The confirmation is badly named because it does not confirm anything. Chrismation and baptism are two distinct sacraments.
The profession of faith is not a sacrament. It ought to be called "confirmation" because it is a confirmation that you are still Christian and that you agree with the decision made by the parents a decade earlier. The profession of faith is not universal among Catholics.

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