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Author Topic: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'  (Read 3443 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2014, 08:05:54 PM »

Comparing Benny Hinn to Arius is insulting.

To Arius.

And "Good Morning Holy Spirit"? Seriously? That's the name of his book?

<_<
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 08:06:29 PM by Eastern Mind » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2014, 08:27:14 PM »

Even Benny Hinn doesn't charge admission (at least, according to his web site).

And what's wrong with 'event mongering' ? If you want people to come, you have to tell them that you're open. This isn't the Field of Dreams.

My 'coming into the Church' began when I attended a Fredrica Matthews-Greene event at the local Orthodox Church. I saw an ad in the paper, and I showed up. Did that church use 'event mongering' or did it simply tell folks they're open? A little easy promotional tactic?

Hinn et al go way beyond this -- they know 'buyer behavior,' they know the hierarchy of effects, they know group dynamics, they know how to stimulate need awareness. The whole enchilada. It obviously works -- so why not put it to good use?







Quote
our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.

Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?

I'll save you the marketing lecture, but any time you interface with the public, that would constitute 'marketing.' It doesn't just mean protestant-style evangelism. Many protestant churches have this down to a science. The Orthodox Church is, all too frequently, amateur hour.

And I hate to break it to you -- but every time such-and-such Church has a 'Greek festival,' or 'Lebanese festival' or 'Russian festival' or whatever, that would be a type of promotion, which is marketing. It's as if we don't want to get down to the hard work of attracting people -- we'd rather shovel kibbeh or baklavah or kotleti in their faces and hope for the best.  Like I said, amateur hour.

 

I think there is a HUGE difference in the types of 'marketing' that events like the ones you mentioned above, consist of....

vs

the Hinnesque 'event mongering' marketing of the actual 'holy services' (yes yes, I am not calling them Liturgy, but its an actual service, meant to worship God)   that he does.  


Marketing Liturgy like that would be comparable....should we start charging and selling tickets with the 'you will be blessed if you attend'  language behind it?  


 Cry Cry



« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 08:28:17 PM by Rambam » Logged
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« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2014, 08:46:59 PM »

Benny Hinn and Arius aren't really all that comparable.
Yeah, at least Benny Hinn has recanted his teaching that each member of the Trinity was a mini-Trinity.



He taught that?  What does it even mean?
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« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2014, 08:58:34 PM »

Benny Hinn and Arius aren't really all that comparable.
Yeah, at least Benny Hinn has recanted his teaching that each member of the Trinity was a mini-Trinity.



He taught that?  What does it even mean?
Here's the quote:

"Man, I feel revelation knowledge already coming on me here. Lift your hands. Something new is going to happen here today. I felt it just as I walked down here. Holy Spirit, tale over in the name of Jesus ... God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person; and He is a triune being Himself separate from the Son and Holy Ghost. Say, what did you say? Hear it, hear it, hear it. See, God the Father is a person. God the Son is a person. God the Holy Spirit is a person. But each one of them is a triune being by Himself. If I can shock you -- and maybe I should -- there's nine of them. Huh, what did you say? Let me explain: God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person with his own personal spirit, and with His own personal soul, and His own personal spirit-body. You say, Huh, I never heard that. Well you think you're in church this church to hear things you've heard for the last fifty years? You can't argue with the word, can you? It's all in the Word."

Source.
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« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2014, 09:10:21 PM »

^I heard he taught that, but I had no idea that he recanted.

What I am wondering now is whether he also recanted his "little gods" heresy.
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« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2014, 09:52:56 PM »

Even Benny Hinn doesn't charge admission (at least, according to his web site).

And what's wrong with 'event mongering' ? If you want people to come, you have to tell them that you're open. This isn't the Field of Dreams.

My 'coming into the Church' began when I attended a Fredrica Matthews-Greene event at the local Orthodox Church. I saw an ad in the paper, and I showed up. Did that church use 'event mongering' or did it simply tell folks they're open? A little easy promotional tactic?

Hinn et al go way beyond this -- they know 'buyer behavior,' they know the hierarchy of effects, they know group dynamics, they know how to stimulate need awareness. The whole enchilada. It obviously works -- so why not put it to good use?
Are you trusting in the "wisdom" of men or in the power of God?
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« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2014, 10:24:32 PM »

Quote
our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.

Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?

I'll save you the marketing lecture, but any time you interface with the public, that would constitute 'marketing.' It doesn't just mean protestant-style evangelism. Many protestant churches have this down to a science. The Orthodox Church is, all too frequently, amateur hour.

And I hate to break it to you -- but every time such-and-such Church has a 'Greek festival,' or 'Lebanese festival' or 'Russian festival' or whatever, that would be a type of promotion, which is marketing. It's as if we don't want to get down to the hard work of attracting people -- we'd rather shovel kibbeh or baklavah or kotleti in their faces and hope for the best.  Like I said, amateur hour.

And here's the sentence to make this relevant to the thread: maybe it's this type of organizational naivety that underlies Hinn's and other's doubts about the Church.

 

What's "WOW" about that? Isn't the Church an organization, too? Knowing a little organizational behavior, strategy, and marketing sure couldn't hurt.

Eh.

I used to live down the road from Oral Roberts University.  Know folks who graduated from there. Know of at least one Orthodox bishop that graduated from there and taught there. ORU has been mostly a boon to south Tulsa and occasionally has a great basketball team -- it was where Bill Self got his start as a head coach.  So what if Oral Roberts says God told him to start the university?

Similarly, Benny Hinn's group has given hundreds of thousands to help out after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami (according to Wikipedia).

So what if these folks bounce around a stage and shout at 'demons' and faith heal entire arenas? Didn't I see someone somewhere say on this board "We know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not?" In the meantime, let's cut 'em some slack and recognize the good they do. And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people.



I have been to one of his crusades in london.uk, I went with my father in law who is pentecostal,so is my wife, but she is now seeing light.He started to preach for about 45 mins then he got everyone up a singing <happy clappy> then like i had thought the money bucks came round,The people were told not to put change but paper money and that god would give it back 4x over.He also told us that god wanted him to own his house out right and be deat free.People including my in laws are fooled by this man.God help the world when false teachers like him are about.

"And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people. "

WOW

our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.


you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
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« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2014, 10:37:58 PM »

Use your vowels.

People will take your opinions (which are good in this case) more seriously if you don't sound like you are sending your buddies a text message.

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« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2014, 10:50:54 PM »

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. Smiley I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility to look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 12:23:48 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2014, 11:02:26 PM »

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. Smiley I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

Its just the word "maketing" that did it for me. As if we are a product to be sold. and the fact that he says we should be more like that nimrod, hinn.

I belive our, you could say marketing is... "Come and see" meaning no presure, if your interested 'come and see".
we dont go around saying, "have you been saved" asking to pray for/and with people we just met, without them bringing up religion.
when i was young, i worked as a cashier and a lady i was checking out on my line asked me. have you been saved, do you repent your sins, lets pray together. ON MY CHECKOUT LINE!!!
thats how you alienate people. she scared the crap out of me. i was like, ooh what does she know about me?!

anyway im relaxing now, tnx  angel
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 11:03:10 PM by Nikolaostheservant » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2014, 11:09:45 PM »

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. Smiley I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

Its just the word "maketing" that did it for me. As if we are a product to be sold. and the fact that he says we should be more like that nimrod, hinn.

I belive our, you could say marketing is... "Come and see" meaning no presure, if your interested 'come and see".
we dont go around saying, "have you been saved" asking to pray for/and with people we just met, without them bringing up religion.
when i was young, i worked as a cashier and a lady i was checking out on my line asked me. have you been saved, do you repent your sins, lets pray together. ON MY CHECKOUT LINE!!!
thats how you alienate people. she scared the crap out of me. i was like, ooh what does she know about me?!

anyway im relaxing now, tnx  angel
Yeah, I hope that you can see that I actually agree with you to some degree. I'm not keen on using these man-made marketing gimmicks, either, no matter how effective they are in the world at getting people to like us or buy our products. The building up of the Church is the work of God. We must seek to understand first the will of God, then cooperate with His will by doing the things He wants us to do to build His Church.
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« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2014, 11:31:44 PM »

hinn is a salesman and businessman. I heard he was greek orthodox growing up.
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« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2014, 11:43:34 PM »

Couldn't have said it better myself, Mr. Aleut.

(On the human wisdom vs. Godly wisdom ... I don't see why they're exclusive. Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)

BTW, it is always a pleasure to see a little convert hatin' come out!  Wink Just hiding right underneath the surface, isn't it Nick? Cleaning up that attitude would go a long way toward fixing the perceived message of the Church.

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. Smiley I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 11:46:31 PM by Rambam » Logged
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« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2014, 01:13:50 AM »

Couldn't have said it better myself, Mr. Aleut.

(On the human wisdom vs. Godly wisdom ... I don't see why they're exclusive. Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)

BTW, it is always a pleasure to see a little convert hatin' come out!  Wink Just hiding right underneath the surface, isn't it Nick? Cleaning up that attitude would go a long way toward fixing the perceived message of the Church.

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. Smiley I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

convert hatin, aint what im about. im about what is right for Orthodoxy. if converts come in and do damage to the church, i will be the first to say so. if cradal orthodox start doing the damage, i will be say it. it simple, black and white?

btw" you said " Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)"

you and marketing!?

we dont market our church.
we just are, and they come to us. and we welcome them in with open arms.

we dont send ur army out to recruit people before they get recruited the competition?!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 01:16:37 AM by Nikolaostheservant » Logged
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« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2014, 02:07:27 AM »

Couldn't have said it better myself, Mr. Aleut.

(On the human wisdom vs. Godly wisdom ... I don't see why they're exclusive. Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)

BTW, it is always a pleasure to see a little convert hatin' come out!  Wink Just hiding right underneath the surface, isn't it Nick? Cleaning up that attitude would go a long way toward fixing the perceived message of the Church.

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. Smiley I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

convert hatin, aint what im about. im about what is right for Orthodoxy. if converts come in and do damage to the church, i will be the first to say so. if cradal orthodox start doing the damage, i will be say it. it simple, black and white?

btw" you said " Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)"

you and marketing!?

we dont market our church.
Depends on how you define marketing. You seem to identify marketing more with sales. Many people, however, tend to think of marketing as merely interacting with the public. How does our interaction with the public influence how people relate to us? Are we presenting to the public an image of a Church they wish to join, or are we driving people away from the Gospel? I tend to think of marketing in this way.

we just are, and they come to us. and we welcome them in with open arms.
Following your approach, we will always remain the country's best kept secret. Sad Even the Great Commission tells us, though, that we must do otherwise. Jesus didn't tell us to just sit on our butts and wait for people to come to us. He told us to go and preach the Gospel to all the nations. This puts on us the responsibility to take the Gospel to the masses, to market our Church to the public, if you wish to speak in such terms.

we dont send ur army out to recruit people before they get recruited the competition?!
No, we call people to repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 12:53:20 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2014, 03:08:40 AM »

He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts.

 Cheesy


In his book, he say that when he was baby,  he was baptisted by the patriarch of Jerusalem, Benedictus. And so come under the Greek Orthodoxy

It's the nuts part. Nuts means fools so you say he was educated by Catholic fools. You must mean nuns. But it's a funny mistake  Smiley

Too funny!  Grin


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« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2014, 09:58:45 AM »

Couldn't have said it better myself, Mr. Aleut.

(On the human wisdom vs. Godly wisdom ... I don't see why they're exclusive. Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)

BTW, it is always a pleasure to see a little convert hatin' come out!  Wink Just hiding right underneath the surface, isn't it Nick? Cleaning up that attitude would go a long way toward fixing the perceived message of the Church.

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. Smiley I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

A little less snark and attitude might avoid the appearance of what you call " convert hating " , it's a two way street in life. Stereotypes form from a mix of real observation and projection.

But you are right in a sense about "marketing" but I think "targeted outreach" is more descriptive and less crass in its sound.
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« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2014, 02:44:33 AM »

Here's my take on Benny Hinn and Orthodoxy.

He left Orthodoxy because he did not experience God in any discernible way as a young man. At 17 under the influence of friends at High School he began associating with Charismatics and soon enough visited a Katherine Kuhlman crusade where he was smitten by it's dynamism and particular style of church "theater." Whatever it was Katherine had he wanted. He even visited her grave some years later to gain her anointing. He deliberately modeled much of he early personal style and ministry on her and hers.

So really he left as an idealistic and impressionable young man...barely more than a boy. His opinions on what Orthodoxy is or is not is still framed by that shallow personal experience before he had a chance to mature and reflect.  He has been out of Orthodoxy far longer than he was ever "in" it....yet I still hold out a thin hope that one day, he might meet the right person...have the right encounter so that he may hear and repent.

He seems to have something of a narcissistic streak: fastidious dresser even as a teen...could never do dirty work without constantly washing his hands...lost some early jobs that way. There's the combover thing hairdo. He seems incapable of hearing correction from the little people in the pews/stadium seats. While he has said a number of highly questionable things over the years, he's only backed off the worst of them because others in equally or more successful ministries voiced their concerns. He's a preener. Tried to live "modestly" once in the late 80's early 90s....no fancy car, house, rolex etc. That lasted all of 2 months tops (I think the misses liked the nice house, car and other perks...but that's a speculation).

The guy you see on stage is not the guy he is offstage. When not on stage, he is very retiring, almost shy. Likely a hard core introvert. 

Staff: I don't know how he may have changed over the years...come to believe his own PR machine, but when he was just breaking out and garnering national attention, he had a number of good honest, decent God loving people on staff as his junior pastors (youth, children's, College, Senior, Married, etc.) They did not regard him as a phony, but rather looked to him as an instance of the real deal in a sea of phonies and dried out/used up/dying ministries. Sometimes the things he said gave them pause too (the 3x3 Trinity thing for example)...but they didn't say much....and in a few months it became known he had quietly changed his mind. What it's like now on his staff, who can say.

How do I know these things? I used to go to his church and I worked for him at the church school and in the sunday school program (I taught one of the classes), and volunteered with the youth ministry. I met him on a few occasions, and knew his younger brothers (casually), his inner personal staff, and heard and saws lots publicly and among the staff first hand.

It's what I saw that put me on the road to Orthodoxy. Things happened back then...inexplicable things that were not emotion driven...not for many at any rate. I saw people healed who stayed healed an entire 3 days. Saw thousands fall over when he blew into his microphone, saw young men knocked off their feet like hit with a sledge hammer, and saw others who's weekly "touch" looked more like attention seeking.  Most of all I saw the same thing up close and personal week after week after week...all televised...and after a good long while it bothered me that it seemed like "miracles" of the Holy Spirit were both being marketed like new and improved salad dressing...and that if these works were genuine, then He was being put on display like an elephant doing tricks in a circus.  The people seemed genuine in their need on the whole, and the ministry team genuine in their desire to see God meet those needs (including Mr. Hinn)...but it all came together like a giant "miracle" hamster wheel...a show...a "spiritual" entertainment. 

So I won't said never visited people under Hinn's ministry. I won't say people did not receive good pastoral care (as I understood it then) because the Jr. Pastors that I knew tried very hard to be good pastors and teachers. But for all that, there was an emptiness at the heart of it all...or to put it another way...if you came seeking titilation and excitement...you could get buckets and buckets. If you came seeking good fellowship and nice people, you could find that too....but it you came with deep spiritual and theological needs and maybe needed a real lasting miracle...that didn't make sufficiently predictable/uplifting TV.  The stuff there did not satisfy over the long term. But then again...sometimes seeing what you thought was "it" flame out while the pilot is oblivious can be a good thing.

Other stuff I noticed. Even though he left Orthodoxy...bits of his childhood memories must be making their presence felt: Look at what he wears...like the love child of a Roman collar and a Nehru Jacket. Instead of a golden cross, he has a big embroidered dove/logo. Also I was there and heard with my own ears this incorrect predictions about Castro, his near canonization of Lucille O'Ball when she died, his triple Trinity notion.

He may be a total fake now, a fraud...but I don't think he started that way. He wanted to be the male Kathrine Khulman (more or less) She was his inspiration in ministry, and in professional demeanor on and off stage. He may well have ended up far from her idealized example (perhaps not her real one), but he began wanting to follow God in a way that seemed new and fresh and powerful compared to what he had grown up with.

The pity is that Mama and Papa didn't take him to visit Mt. Athos and meet a living Saint or two.
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« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2014, 08:59:45 AM »

Hey, we are criticizing with generalities here.  Please don't give a nuanced view of the man.  It is too hard to make fun of that way.  Wink
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« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2014, 09:25:36 AM »

That was very helpful Seraphim98, thanks Smiley
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« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2014, 10:01:53 AM »

I never went to one of his events, but knew some folks in my youth group did.  I did know a few benny Hinn wannabes.

Thanks for the background, Seraphim98.
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« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2014, 10:13:30 AM »

As I come from Charismatic Church. Benny Hinn is one of the well -known and famous pastor in Charistmatic Church. ( Although he corrupted, divorce, spoke false prophecy, curse the people who against his ministry openly and in public)

I read his book ' Good Morning , Holy Spirit' before.His mother was Greek Orthodoxy, but did not know GOd much. His Father was Greek Orthodoxy. He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts. He and his family orginally belong to Greek Orthodoxy .( As what he mentioned in this book --- Good morning , Holy spirit)

In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic, praying to GOd to them is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?

This is funny because we concentrate on Rituals and Dogma because we listen to God. God instructed us to do so and we are. Like we Orthodox say all the time "He is in Error"
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« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2014, 01:26:10 PM »

Quote
WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?
Much like Benny Hinn's comments on anything else. He is a complete joke and a fraud. It would be best for him to return to the One Church of God and stop this "holy hand slap" nonsense.

PP
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« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2014, 09:26:37 PM »



And "Good Morning Holy Spirit"? Seriously? That's the name of his book?

<_<

Well I am shocked, shocked, shocked.
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« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2014, 11:24:54 AM »



And "Good Morning Holy Spirit"? Seriously? That's the name of his book?

<_<

Well I am shocked, shocked, shocked.

Yes! That's the name of his book! ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Morning,_Holy_Spirit )
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