Author Topic: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'  (Read 7419 times)

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Offline walter1234

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As I come from Charismatic Church. Benny Hinn is one of the well -known and famous pastor in Charistmatic Church. ( Although he corrupted, divorce, spoke false prophecy, curse the people who against his ministry openly and in public)

I read his book ' Good Morning , Holy Spirit' before.His mother was Greek Orthodoxy, but did not know GOd much. His Father was Greek Orthodoxy. He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts. He and his family orginally belong to Greek Orthodoxy .( As what he mentioned in this book --- Good morning , Holy spirit)

In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic, praying to GOd to them is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 09:35:11 AM by walter1234 »

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 09:34:54 AM »
He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts.

 :D

Quote

In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He said that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic, praying to GOd to them is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Holy Spirit.

WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?

I think it's nonsense. Ever read about St. Symeon the New Theologian?
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Offline walter1234

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 09:39:11 AM »
He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts.

 :D


In his book, he say that when he was baby,  he was baptisted by the patriarch of Jerusalem, Benedictus. And so came under the Greek Orthodoxy

« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 09:44:55 AM by walter1234 »

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 09:44:20 AM »
He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts.

 :D


In his book, he say that when he was baby,  he was baptisted by the patriarch of Jerusalem, Benedictus. And so come under the Greek Orthodoxy

It's the nuts part. Nuts means fools so you say he was educated by Catholic fools. You must mean nuns. But it's a funny mistake  :)
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Offline walter1234

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 09:45:10 AM »
He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts.

 :D


In his book, he say that when he was baby,  he was baptisted by the patriarch of Jerusalem, Benedictus. And so come under the Greek Orthodoxy

It's the nuts part. Nuts means fools so you say he was educated by Catholic fools. You must mean nuns. But it's a funny mistake  :)
Just a typing mistake...
And He said that he was taught by Catholic Nuns, but joined the assembling of Greek Orthodox Church on Saturdays and Sundays. And Any other comments about Benny Hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in His written book,e.g Good Morning, Holy Spirit?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 09:56:23 AM by walter1234 »

Offline walter1234

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2012, 02:09:14 PM »
Quote
In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic.To them,praying to GOd  is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

THe above is the Benny Hinn's criticisms on Ancient Church (including Catholic and Orthodox Church)  that I find in " Good morning , Holy Spirit ". Is his criticisms true?

NO one opposites his criticism, except Cyrillic ?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 02:17:35 PM by walter1234 »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2012, 02:25:03 PM »
Quote
In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic.To them,praying to GOd  is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

THe above is the Benny Hinn's criticisms on Ancient Church (including Catholic and Orthodox Church)  that I find in " Good morning , Holy Spirit ". Is his criticisms true?

NO one opposites his criticism, except Cyrillic ?
You just haven't waited long enough. You started this thread while many of us were asleep. You just need to be patient as we drag our butts out of bed on this second day of the Thanksgiving holiday from work. ;)

Personally, I think Benny Hinn nuts.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 02:27:23 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline choy

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2012, 02:37:59 PM »
We do not know the Great Power of God?  So what does he think about turning bread and wine into the Flesh and Blood of God the Son Himself?

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2012, 02:40:12 PM »
We have fixed prayers but there is no prohibition for a person to pray to God on their own words privately. The point is that in Liturgy we are praying together, we are one body. You need predetermined prayers for that.

Also, pre-made prayers *teach us how to pray*. Unfortunately, our hearts are so impure that even our prayer is corrupted. When we use the prayers of the saints and of the fathers we have models of pure prayer. In time, after much fasting and much prayer, we too pray like they did.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2012, 02:52:06 PM »
Quote
In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic.To them,praying to GOd  is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

THe above is the Benny Hinn's criticisms on Ancient Church (including Catholic and Orthodox Church)  that I find in " Good morning , Holy Spirit ". Is his criticisms true?

NO one opposites his criticism, except Cyrillic ?
You just haven't waited long enough. You started this thread while many of us were asleep. You just need to be patient as we drag our butts out of bed on this second day of the Thanksgiving holiday from work. ;)

Personally, I think Benny Hinn nuts.

I except many would oppose his view on Greek Orthodox ! :angel:

I live in Hong kong.There is no thanksgiving day here!    :(




We do not know the Great Power of God?  So what does he think about turning bread and wine into the Flesh and Blood of God the Son Himself?

He do agree Catholic and Orthodox view on Holy communion.Thus, some pastors criticize him.( http://www.soulwinning.info/wolves/benny_hinn-catholicism.htm)(http://biblelight.net/Benny-Hinn-Mass.htm)

Moreover, he also comments that the ancient church,including Greek orthodox and catholic Church ignores  the anointing of Holy Spirit in 'Good morning , holy spirit'!

( According to Benny hinn and most Christmatic Church's definition, "anointing of holy spirit" means the power  is given by Holy spirit and transmitted through His people to carry out supernatural acts and miracles )
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 03:09:24 PM by walter1234 »

Offline Ansgar

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2012, 02:59:32 PM »
Quote
In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic.To them,praying to GOd  is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

THe above is the Benny Hinn's criticisms on Ancient Church (including Catholic and Orthodox Church)  that I find in " Good morning , Holy Spirit ". Is his criticisms true?

NO one opposites his criticism, except Cyrillic ?
No, of course not. His criticism is an opinion and opinions aren't necessarily true. The Lord's Prayer is biblical. Anyone who criticise it, criticise Christ, since He taught it to the Apostles. You don't have to look deep into Orthodoxy to find examples of people, whose prayer life far exceeds what most of us are doing today.  
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Offline Aaron M

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2012, 03:17:52 PM »
Quote
In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic.To them,praying to GOd  is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

THe above is the Benny Hinn's criticisms on Ancient Church (including Catholic and Orthodox Church)  that I find in " Good morning , Holy Spirit ". Is his criticisms true?

NO one opposites his criticism, except Cyrillic ?

To my mind, it's impossible to say whether his criticism is "true" or not.  (Personally I don't believe it is.)  What Hinn might be arguing - what probably most unaware Evangelical Protestants think - is that the Orthodox/Catholic churches rather predispose its members, baptized as infants and largely subject in the European and Middle Eastern, African regions to a liturgy in a language they will not understand unless they deliberately, intelligently research its texts in vernacular (or modern, in a case like Greek) translation.  To Hinn and like Protestants, this could mean that the normal vehicle for spiritual experience and understanding is lost to the vast majority of Orthdox and Catholics who will not and should not have to - undertake this special study.  So don't harp hard on me, I have said that I don't agree with this, although am a little sympathetic to it.

I've been wanting to post for some time - and I might as well here - that a substantial crux of my own potential inquiry into Orthodoxy is how different the impression of Orthodoxy might be viewed from the perspective of either a cradle or a convert.  Benny Hinn writes from the perspective of a cradle who unfortunately did not bother to dig into the deeper, non-surface spiritual testimonies and truths (or 'Truth') of the Orthodox Church, but rather left to a more instant-gratification, 'simple-minded' appealing modern brand of the Christian religion.  For what it is worth, this seems to be the reality of a great many cradle Orthodox who were 'born into it.'  In contrast to the many cradle Orthodox who left and became largely Evangelicals, there seems to be a respectably large group of Evangelical Protestant intellectuals who convert to Orthodoxy and who, I think, would constitute the majority of members on these boards although I wouldn't claim for sure.

When enquiring into Orthodoxy (or Roman Catholicism, as the case might be) I would like to be more convinced by the witness of lifelong cradles who have a similar, not identical, level of personal devotion and piety as Evangelical Protestants characterize as desirable for a Christian 'in a relationship' with Jesus Christ.  This devotion would also be coincidental, as in the sense of not being "re-converted" by the testimony of converts or reverts.  It is probably a weakness and an amount of personal pride, but I can't get past the feeling that it cheapens the testimony of Orthodoxy - in North America, at least - to stand its own ground if its most prominent apologetic voices are converts from another Christian tradition that happens to emphasize such a strong apologetic zeal and *personal* feel to the faith.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 03:39:26 PM by Aaron M »

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2012, 03:43:24 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

As I come from Charismatic Church. Benny Hinn is one of the well -known and famous pastor in Charistmatic Church. ( Although he corrupted, divorce, spoke false prophecy, curse the people who against his ministry openly and in public)



You're being too nice, you should hear what the late Dr. Gene Scott always had to say about Benny Hinn  :laugh:

Quote
I read his book ' Good Morning , Holy Spirit' before.His mother was Greek Orthodoxy, but did not know GOd much. His Father was Greek Orthodoxy. He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts. He and his family orginally belong to Greek Orthodoxy .( As what he mentioned in this book --- Good morning , Holy spirit)

In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic, praying to GOd to them is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?

Benny Hinn is a blatant crook and charlatan.  I have ZERO respect and even less trust for that man.  What he says is  generally a blend of lies, self-aggrandizement, and manipulation.  Such snakes in the grass will surely find the heel of Our Lady stepping firmly on their heads the way our good mothers always watched for our safety from the wild and predatory animals whenever as children we played in the yard..



stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 03:44:27 PM by HabteSelassie »
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline izrima

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2012, 04:57:29 PM »
Hinn's criticism is pretty common. I've certainly heard it before.

So, the reason why we use these standard prayers is because we know they work. In the case of the Lord's Prayer, it was clearly given to humanity by Christ himself. There is an excellent reason for us saying them. That being said, I know that when I was growing up Catholic, there was definitely a temptation for me to simply say Hail Marys and Our Fathers and call it a day. I was saying the right words, but without much intentionality behind them. So I get that part of Hinn's criticism.

I think he is wrong for a couple of reasons, though. The positive thing you have to say is that Orthodox spirituality has an ancient tradition of prayer and mysticism that is beyond anything else in the world. In fact, Orthodox mysticism is what first caught my eye as a Catholic. Even though there are Catholic mystics, it is not uncommon today to have Catholic schools and clergy recommending Orthodox literature for those pursuing spirituality and mysticism. Look at the dispute between St. Gregory Palamas and Barlaam. It would be hard to argue there is any Christian church that puts a higher value on mysticism and communion with God than the Orthodox Church.

On the negative side, one of the arguments I've heard articulated against Hinn-type prayer is that it can be rather Pharisaical. Jesus told us to shut the door and pray in private, not loudly speaking in public in an overwrought manner. If you want a really horrifying example of Pharisaical prayer, find Gov. Rick Perry's "prayer" at his rally in the Houston stadium. Really a sad example of someone using "prayer" as a commercial.

To tie it all together, Orthodox are taught to value and use the standard prayers we have received from Jesus, the Bible, and tradition. When we are still learning to pray, these prayers keep us from error. Some of the commonest errors, in turn, are focusing only on our own needs and praying demonstratively in the way Jesus cautioned us against. Orthodoxy does not, however, exclude anyone from praying in a more personal, "charismatic" manner.

Offline Punch

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2012, 08:00:31 PM »

WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?

I agree with him.  However, what is seen in a good number of the Greek Orthodox Church should not be confused with what is the teaching of the Church.  There is nothing more beautiful, emotional, and spiritual than Orthodoxy as practiced by those that understand and actually follow the teachings.  It is unfortunate, but not unusual, that Mr. Hinn did not experience that.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 08:01:32 PM by Punch »
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2012, 08:23:31 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?

I agree with him.  However, what is seen in a good number of the Greek Orthodox Church should not be confused with what is the teaching of the Church.  There is nothing more beautiful, emotional, and spiritual than Orthodoxy as practiced by those that understand and actually follow the teachings.  It is unfortunate, but not unusual, that Mr. Hinn did not experience that.

I think you're giving Benny Hinn too much credit here, if you've followed this guy across the past few decades its pretty obvious he is a charlatan at best, a blatant crook at worst.  His opinions about the Orthodox Church are null and void in the context that his analysis concludes that in his own empty, lifeless, and spiritually dead "church" where he is the "pastor" is the true and actual source of Grace.  Can't experience God in the Orthodox Church? So what, move to the even spiritually emptier place because folks can experience the devils masquerading as God there?

Protestantism is one thing, but Benny Hinn is another altogether.  Protestants haves some redeeming qualities, Benny Hinn's "ministry" has none I assure you  :police:



stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 08:24:07 PM by HabteSelassie »
"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

Offline Punch

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2012, 09:18:28 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?

I agree with him.  However, what is seen in a good number of the Greek Orthodox Church should not be confused with what is the teaching of the Church.  There is nothing more beautiful, emotional, and spiritual than Orthodoxy as practiced by those that understand and actually follow the teachings.  It is unfortunate, but not unusual, that Mr. Hinn did not experience that.

I think you're giving Benny Hinn too much credit here, if you've followed this guy across the past few decades its pretty obvious he is a charlatan at best, a blatant crook at worst.  His opinions about the Orthodox Church are null and void in the context that his analysis concludes that in his own empty, lifeless, and spiritually dead "church" where he is the "pastor" is the true and actual source of Grace.  Can't experience God in the Orthodox Church? So what, move to the even spiritually emptier place because folks can experience the devils masquerading as God there?

Protestantism is one thing, but Benny Hinn is another altogether.  Protestants haves some redeeming qualities, Benny Hinn's "ministry" has none I assure you  :police:



stay blessed,
habte selassie

I am not giving him any credit.  He is only saying what EVERY ex-Orthodox and ex-Catholic that I ever knew in the Protestant churches has told me.  Even an broken clock is right twice a day.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline walter1234

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2012, 07:23:02 AM »
Quote
Quote
http://groupsects.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/benny-hinn-uses-wifes-reconciliation-to-beg-for-money/
http://lm-international.us/?p=6249

A greeyd man!!

I remember in 'Good morning , holy spirit', he said God asked him to marry Suzanne. In May, He say that God asked him remarry the Suzanne after divorce, and promise all audience to have remarriage in September. But Now, He chagend again and said that he have to wait on the Lord to let them know when to get married again. He keep taking benefits from Jesus' name.

Quote
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/hinnflier.html

False prophets!!

Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wAQ5ftiEqE&feature=related

He curse people who against his ministry openly and in pubilc

Quote
http://ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/benny-hinn-defends-luxury-lifestyle-in-100-million-usd-ministry/
luxurious life!

Quote
http://www.twelvetribes-ex.com/Benny%20Hinn%20and%20His%20Anointing.htm

False healing!!
A very poor men! A deception in the church!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 07:24:21 AM by walter1234 »

Offline walter1234

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2012, 07:29:02 AM »
We have fixed prayers but there is no prohibition for a person to pray to God on their own words privately. The point is that in Liturgy we are praying together, we are one body. You need predetermined prayers for that.

Also, pre-made prayers *teach us how to pray*. Unfortunately, our hearts are so impure that even our prayer is corrupted. When we use the prayers of the saints and of the fathers we have models of pure prayer. In time, after much fasting and much prayer, we too pray like they did.

Quote
In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic.To them,praying to GOd  is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

THe above is the Benny Hinn's criticisms on Ancient Church (including Catholic and Orthodox Church)  that I find in " Good morning , Holy Spirit ". Is his criticisms true?

NO one opposites his criticism, except Cyrillic ?
No, of course not. His criticism is an opinion and opinions aren't necessarily true. The Lord's Prayer is biblical. Anyone who criticise it, criticise Christ, since He taught it to the Apostles. You don't have to look deep into Orthodoxy to find examples of people, whose prayer life far exceeds what most of us are doing today.  

Quote
In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic.To them,praying to GOd  is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

THe above is the Benny Hinn's criticisms on Ancient Church (including Catholic and Orthodox Church)  that I find in " Good morning , Holy Spirit ". Is his criticisms true?

NO one opposites his criticism, except Cyrillic ?

To my mind, it's impossible to say whether his criticism is "true" or not.  (Personally I don't believe it is.)  What Hinn might be arguing - what probably most unaware Evangelical Protestants think - is that the Orthodox/Catholic churches rather predispose its members, baptized as infants and largely subject in the European and Middle Eastern, African regions to a liturgy in a language they will not understand unless they deliberately, intelligently research its texts in vernacular (or modern, in a case like Greek) translation.  To Hinn and like Protestants, this could mean that the normal vehicle for spiritual experience and understanding is lost to the vast majority of Orthdox and Catholics who will not and should not have to - undertake this special study.  So don't harp hard on me, I have said that I don't agree with this, although am a little sympathetic to it.

I've been wanting to post for some time - and I might as well here - that a substantial crux of my own potential inquiry into Orthodoxy is how different the impression of Orthodoxy might be viewed from the perspective of either a cradle or a convert.  Benny Hinn writes from the perspective of a cradle who unfortunately did not bother to dig into the deeper, non-surface spiritual testimonies and truths (or 'Truth') of the Orthodox Church, but rather left to a more instant-gratification, 'simple-minded' appealing modern brand of the Christian religion.  For what it is worth, this seems to be the reality of a great many cradle Orthodox who were 'born into it.'  In contrast to the many cradle Orthodox who left and became largely Evangelicals, there seems to be a respectably large group of Evangelical Protestant intellectuals who convert to Orthodoxy and who, I think, would constitute the majority of members on these boards although I wouldn't claim for sure.

When enquiring into Orthodoxy (or Roman Catholicism, as the case might be) I would like to be more convinced by the witness of lifelong cradles who have a similar, not identical, level of personal devotion and piety as Evangelical Protestants characterize as desirable for a Christian 'in a relationship' with Jesus Christ.  This devotion would also be coincidental, as in the sense of not being "re-converted" by the testimony of converts or reverts.  It is probably a weakness and an amount of personal pride, but I can't get past the feeling that it cheapens the testimony of Orthodoxy - in North America, at least - to stand its own ground if its most prominent apologetic voices are converts from another Christian tradition that happens to emphasize such a strong apologetic zeal and *personal* feel to the faith.

You mean Benny Hinn did not study deep enough about Greek Orthodoxy before he make his comments in Good morning , Holy Spirit?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 07:31:11 AM by walter1234 »

Offline arnI

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2012, 08:36:30 AM »
Going to Liturgy today, oh yes for those that forget, my personal and your personal Savior is present there in the Greek Orthodox church the same as the other Orthodox churches that celebrate today. Today, as we worship God, as we read from the Bible, as we commune with God, as I solemnly and reverently pray to God asking to be made worthy once again, as I humbly submit to God, I will remember those that miss the mark and fail to recognize the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2012, 08:38:40 AM »
I would not believe Benny Hinn if he said rain was wet.

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Offline theistgal

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 10:48:32 AM »
I've known a lot of Catholic nuts ... mostly in my own family! :D
"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)

Offline Happy Lutheran

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 05:30:30 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Benny Hinn is a blatant crook and charlatan. stay blessed,
habte selassie


Benny Hinn - Dark Lord of the Sith
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9SS95q2kpg
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 11:23:56 PM »
Quote from: Happy Lutheran
Benny Hinn - Dark Lord of the Sith
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9SS95q2kpg

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hahahahahaaa!

He would make a good character in Mortal Kombat or something. His power would be a "burst of (false) spirit."  ;)

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2012, 10:56:54 AM »
Lest this thread devolve into a sea of nonsensical Hinn bashing, would anyone else care to explain just how Benny Hinn is a false prophet and not to be trusted?
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2012, 11:44:14 AM »
I would rather have the tested and experienced standards of the church, than a focus on emotional worship which doesn't glorify God but instead only serves oneself.
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2012, 01:41:18 PM »
I would rather have the tested and experienced standards of the church, than a focus on emotional worship which doesn't glorify God but instead only serves oneself.


In Protestant, nobody would have the standards to prove whether the 'New Faith', 'New Doctrine', 'New truth' are from God or not. Nobody would have the standards to prove whether the miracles which manisfied in Protestant Church is from GOd or not.  It is all depends on personal judgment, personal feeling , personal experience, personal interpretation of Scriptures and  personal claiming of "guidance by Holy Spirit " ::).
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 02:09:10 PM by walter1234 »

Offline theistgal

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2012, 02:01:56 PM »
Lest this thread devolve into a sea of nonsensical Hinn bashing, would anyone else care to explain just how Benny Hinn is a false prophet and not to be trusted?

There are numerous reasons, but I'll point out a few, which I admit I got from the Wiki entry.

1. "Hinn is notable for his mistaken prophecies relating to the end times, including the destruction of homosexuals in the USA, the death of Fidel Castro in the 1990s, and the end of the world in 1992 and 1999." (reference cited: "YouTube clips of false teachings and prophecies")

2. "In November 2004, the CBC Television show The Fifth Estate did a special titled "Do You Believe in Miracles" on the apparent transgressions committed by Benny Hinn's ministry.[3] With the aid of hidden cameras and crusade witnesses, the producers of the show demonstrated Benny's apparent misappropriation of funds, his fabrication of the truth, and the way in which his staff chose crusade audience members to come on stage to proclaim their miracle healings.[3] In particular, the investigation highlighted the fact that the most desperate miracle seekers who attend a Hinn crusade—the quadriplegics, the brain-damaged, virtually anyone with a visibly obvious physical condition—are never allowed up on stage; those who attempt to get in the line of possible healings are intercepted and directed to return to their seats."

3. "In 1999, Hinn appeared on the Trinity Broadcasting Network, claiming that God had given him a vision predicting the resurrection of thousands of dead people after watching the network—laying out a scenario of people placing their dead loved ones' hands on TV screens tuned into the station—and suggesting that TBN would be "an extension of Heaven to Earth"."

(all of the above from the Wikipedia entry at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Hinn)

Here's another one - according to an article on MSN (http://lifestyle.msn.co.nz/nzmenslifestyle/intheknow/8194348/10-end-of-the-world-predictions)

"Popular faith healer and evangelist Benny Hinn used a late evening service on 31 December 1989 to issue a list of apocalyptic predictions for the 1990s. Unfortunately for him, somebody taped it.

Now, as far has as NZ Men knows, nobody rose from the dead in the 1990s (John Travolta's career doesn't count), the homosexual community was not destroyed, earthquakes did not ravage nations previously immune to them, and the world was not ruled by Satan disguised as a "short man"."


That should pretty much take care of it.  ;D
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Offline gypsyjohn

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2014, 03:02:37 PM »
I have been to one of his crusades in london.uk, I went with my father in law who is pentecostal,so is my wife, but she is now seeing light.He started to preach for about 45 mins then he got everyone up a singing <happy clappy> then like i had thought the money bucks came round,The people were told not to put change but paper money and that god would give it back 4x over.He also told us that god wanted him to own his house out right and be deat free.People including my in laws are fooled by this man.God help the world when false teachers like him are about.

Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2014, 04:42:24 PM »
As I come from Charismatic Church. Benny Hinn is one of the well -known and famous pastor in Charistmatic Church. ( Although he corrupted, divorce, spoke false prophecy, curse the people who against his ministry openly and in public)

I read his book ' Good Morning , Holy Spirit' before.His mother was Greek Orthodoxy, but did not know GOd much. His Father was Greek Orthodoxy. He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts. He and his family orginally belong to Greek Orthodoxy .( As what he mentioned in this book --- Good morning , Holy spirit)

In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic, praying to GOd to them is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?

dont know anythig abt him, other then what you just said here.

but he sounds like he is being decived by the demons.

or he himself is trying to decive ppl for money
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 04:47:29 PM by Nikolaostheservant »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2014, 04:52:47 PM »
I have been to one of his crusades in london.uk, I went with my father in law who is pentecostal,so is my wife, but she is now seeing light.He started to preach for about 45 mins then he got everyone up a singing <happy clappy> then like i had thought the money bucks came round,The people were told not to put change but paper money and that god would give it back 4x over.He also told us that god wanted him to own his house out right and be deat free.People including my in laws are fooled by this man.God help the world when false teachers like him are about.
How is being debt free in and of itself sinful?
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Offline Rambam

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2014, 05:04:14 PM »
Eh.

I used to live down the road from Oral Roberts University.  Know folks who graduated from there. Know of at least one Orthodox bishop that graduated from there and taught there. ORU has been mostly a boon to south Tulsa and occasionally has a great basketball team -- it was where Bill Self got his start as a head coach.  So what if Oral Roberts says God told him to start the university?

Similarly, Benny Hinn's group has given hundreds of thousands to help out after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami (according to Wikipedia).

So what if these folks bounce around a stage and shout at 'demons' and faith heal entire arenas? Didn't I see someone somewhere say on this board "We know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not?" In the meantime, let's cut 'em some slack and recognize the good they do. And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people.



I have been to one of his crusades in london.uk, I went with my father in law who is pentecostal,so is my wife, but she is now seeing light.He started to preach for about 45 mins then he got everyone up a singing <happy clappy> then like i had thought the money bucks came round,The people were told not to put change but paper money and that god would give it back 4x over.He also told us that god wanted him to own his house out right and be deat free.People including my in laws are fooled by this man.God help the world when false teachers like him are about.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2014, 05:07:34 PM »
Eh.

I used to live down the road from Oral Roberts University.  Know folks who graduated from there. Know of at least one Orthodox bishop that graduated from there and taught there. ORU has been mostly a boon to south Tulsa and occasionally has a great basketball team -- it was where Bill Self got his start as a head coach.  So what if Oral Roberts says God told him to start the university?

Similarly, Benny Hinn's group has given hundreds of thousands to help out after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami (according to Wikipedia).

So what if these folks bounce around a stage and shout at 'demons' and faith heal entire arenas? Didn't I see someone somewhere say on this board "We know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not?" In the meantime, let's cut 'em some slack and recognize the good they do. And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people.
Even if heretics do good things, do we not still call them out for their heresy? I'm sure Arius must have done some good deeds during his career as a priest, but the only thing we have to say about him now is ANATHEMA!
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2014, 05:13:09 PM »
Eh.

I used to live down the road from Oral Roberts University.  Know folks who graduated from there. Know of at least one Orthodox bishop that graduated from there and taught there. ORU has been mostly a boon to south Tulsa and occasionally has a great basketball team -- it was where Bill Self got his start as a head coach.  So what if Oral Roberts says God told him to start the university?

Similarly, Benny Hinn's group has given hundreds of thousands to help out after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami (according to Wikipedia).

So what if these folks bounce around a stage and shout at 'demons' and faith heal entire arenas? Didn't I see someone somewhere say on this board "We know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not?" In the meantime, let's cut 'em some slack and recognize the good they do. And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people.



I have been to one of his crusades in london.uk, I went with my father in law who is pentecostal,so is my wife, but she is now seeing light.He started to preach for about 45 mins then he got everyone up a singing <happy clappy> then like i had thought the money bucks came round,The people were told not to put change but paper money and that god would give it back 4x over.He also told us that god wanted him to own his house out right and be deat free.People including my in laws are fooled by this man.God help the world when false teachers like him are about.

"And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people. "

WOW

Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2014, 05:13:43 PM »
Benny Hinn and Arius aren't really all that comparable.

Offline Rambam

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2014, 05:14:21 PM »
Well, sure. The first thing I thought of right after I hit 'post' was how many people were going to jump on me and say Hamas feeds the hungry. But, heck, they'd be right.

Gypsyjohn said "God help the world when false teachers like him are about." Maybe it's OK to say that the world might just be better off, too, because of these folks. At least, in some respects.

Eh.

I used to live down the road from Oral Roberts University.  Know folks who graduated from there. Know of at least one Orthodox bishop that graduated from there and taught there. ORU has been mostly a boon to south Tulsa and occasionally has a great basketball team -- it was where Bill Self got his start as a head coach.  So what if Oral Roberts says God told him to start the university?

Similarly, Benny Hinn's group has given hundreds of thousands to help out after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami (according to Wikipedia).

So what if these folks bounce around a stage and shout at 'demons' and faith heal entire arenas? Didn't I see someone somewhere say on this board "We know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not?" In the meantime, let's cut 'em some slack and recognize the good they do. And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people.
Even if heretics do good things, do we not still call them out for their heresy? I'm sure Arius must have done some good deeds during his career as a priest, but the only thing we have to say about him now is ANATHEMA!

Offline Rambam

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2014, 05:16:19 PM »
What's "WOW" about that? Isn't the Church an organization, too? Knowing a little organizational behavior, strategy, and marketing sure couldn't hurt.

Eh.

I used to live down the road from Oral Roberts University.  Know folks who graduated from there. Know of at least one Orthodox bishop that graduated from there and taught there. ORU has been mostly a boon to south Tulsa and occasionally has a great basketball team -- it was where Bill Self got his start as a head coach.  So what if Oral Roberts says God told him to start the university?

Similarly, Benny Hinn's group has given hundreds of thousands to help out after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami (according to Wikipedia).

So what if these folks bounce around a stage and shout at 'demons' and faith heal entire arenas? Didn't I see someone somewhere say on this board "We know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not?" In the meantime, let's cut 'em some slack and recognize the good they do. And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people.



I have been to one of his crusades in london.uk, I went with my father in law who is pentecostal,so is my wife, but she is now seeing light.He started to preach for about 45 mins then he got everyone up a singing <happy clappy> then like i had thought the money bucks came round,The people were told not to put change but paper money and that god would give it back 4x over.He also told us that god wanted him to own his house out right and be deat free.People including my in laws are fooled by this man.God help the world when false teachers like him are about.

"And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people. "

WOW

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2014, 05:16:53 PM »
Benny Hinn and Arius aren't really all that comparable.
Really? How not? They were both Orthodox once, yet they each left the Church to teach their own heretical doctrines.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 05:18:33 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline biro

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2014, 05:27:37 PM »
Plus, Benny Hinn has a really awful haircut.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2014, 05:30:45 PM »
Plus, Benny Hinn has a really awful haircut.
So what? Does bad hair alone make him a hairy tick?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 05:31:27 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2014, 06:38:21 PM »
What's "WOW" about that? Isn't the Church an organization, too? Knowing a little organizational behavior, strategy, and marketing sure couldn't hurt.

Eh.

I used to live down the road from Oral Roberts University.  Know folks who graduated from there. Know of at least one Orthodox bishop that graduated from there and taught there. ORU has been mostly a boon to south Tulsa and occasionally has a great basketball team -- it was where Bill Self got his start as a head coach.  So what if Oral Roberts says God told him to start the university?

Similarly, Benny Hinn's group has given hundreds of thousands to help out after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami (according to Wikipedia).

So what if these folks bounce around a stage and shout at 'demons' and faith heal entire arenas? Didn't I see someone somewhere say on this board "We know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not?" In the meantime, let's cut 'em some slack and recognize the good they do. And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people.



I have been to one of his crusades in london.uk, I went with my father in law who is pentecostal,so is my wife, but she is now seeing light.He started to preach for about 45 mins then he got everyone up a singing <happy clappy> then like i had thought the money bucks came round,The people were told not to put change but paper money and that god would give it back 4x over.He also told us that god wanted him to own his house out right and be deat free.People including my in laws are fooled by this man.God help the world when false teachers like him are about.

"And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people. "

WOW

our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 06:39:05 PM by Nikolaostheservant »

Offline Agabus

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2014, 06:49:23 PM »
Benny Hinn and Arius aren't really all that comparable.
Yeah, at least Benny Hinn has recanted his teaching that each member of the Trinity was a mini-Trinity.

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

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Offline Salpy

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2014, 07:35:41 PM »
Did he?  I had not heard that.  Has he recanted his other heresies?

Offline Rambam

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2014, 07:36:52 PM »
Quote
our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.

Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?

I'll save you the marketing lecture, but any time you interface with the public, that would constitute 'marketing.' It doesn't just mean protestant-style evangelism. Many protestant churches have this down to a science. The Orthodox Church is, all too frequently, amateur hour.

And I hate to break it to you -- but every time such-and-such Church has a 'Greek festival,' or 'Lebanese festival' or 'Russian festival' or whatever, that would be a type of promotion, which is marketing. It's as if we don't want to get down to the hard work of attracting people -- we'd rather shovel kibbeh or baklavah or kotleti in their faces and hope for the best.  Like I said, amateur hour.

And here's the sentence to make this relevant to the thread: maybe it's this type of organizational naivety that underlies Hinn's and other's doubts about the Church.

 

What's "WOW" about that? Isn't the Church an organization, too? Knowing a little organizational behavior, strategy, and marketing sure couldn't hurt.

Eh.

I used to live down the road from Oral Roberts University.  Know folks who graduated from there. Know of at least one Orthodox bishop that graduated from there and taught there. ORU has been mostly a boon to south Tulsa and occasionally has a great basketball team -- it was where Bill Self got his start as a head coach.  So what if Oral Roberts says God told him to start the university?

Similarly, Benny Hinn's group has given hundreds of thousands to help out after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami (according to Wikipedia).

So what if these folks bounce around a stage and shout at 'demons' and faith heal entire arenas? Didn't I see someone somewhere say on this board "We know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not?" In the meantime, let's cut 'em some slack and recognize the good they do. And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people.



I have been to one of his crusades in london.uk, I went with my father in law who is pentecostal,so is my wife, but she is now seeing light.He started to preach for about 45 mins then he got everyone up a singing <happy clappy> then like i had thought the money bucks came round,The people were told not to put change but paper money and that god would give it back 4x over.He also told us that god wanted him to own his house out right and be deat free.People including my in laws are fooled by this man.God help the world when false teachers like him are about.

"And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people. "

WOW

our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 07:39:49 PM by Rambam »

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2014, 07:42:07 PM »
Quote
our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.

Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?

I'll save you the marketing lecture, but any time you interface with the public, that would constitute 'marketing.' It doesn't just mean protestant-style evangelism. Many protestant churches have this down to a science. The Orthodox Church is, all too frequently, amateur hour.

And I hate to break it to you -- but every time such-and-such Church has a 'Greek festival,' or 'Lebanese festival' or 'Russian festival' or whatever, that would be a type of promotion, which is marketing. It's as if we don't want to get down to the hard work of attracting people -- we'd rather shovel kibbeh or baklavah or kotleti in their faces and hope for the best.  Like I said, amateur hour.

 

I think there is a HUGE difference in the types of 'marketing' that events like the ones you mentioned above, consist of....

vs

the Hinnesque 'event mongering' marketing of the actual 'holy services' (yes yes, I am not calling them Liturgy, but its an actual service, meant to worship God)   that he does.  


Marketing Liturgy like that would be comparable....should we start charging and selling tickets with the 'you will be blessed if you attend'  language behind it?  


 :'( :'(


« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 07:42:29 PM by DeniseDenise »

Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2014, 08:05:54 PM »
Comparing Benny Hinn to Arius is insulting.

To Arius.

And "Good Morning Holy Spirit"? Seriously? That's the name of his book?

<_<
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 08:06:29 PM by Eastern Mind »
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2014, 08:27:14 PM »
Even Benny Hinn doesn't charge admission (at least, according to his web site).

And what's wrong with 'event mongering' ? If you want people to come, you have to tell them that you're open. This isn't the Field of Dreams.

My 'coming into the Church' began when I attended a Fredrica Matthews-Greene event at the local Orthodox Church. I saw an ad in the paper, and I showed up. Did that church use 'event mongering' or did it simply tell folks they're open? A little easy promotional tactic?

Hinn et al go way beyond this -- they know 'buyer behavior,' they know the hierarchy of effects, they know group dynamics, they know how to stimulate need awareness. The whole enchilada. It obviously works -- so why not put it to good use?







Quote
our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.

Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?

I'll save you the marketing lecture, but any time you interface with the public, that would constitute 'marketing.' It doesn't just mean protestant-style evangelism. Many protestant churches have this down to a science. The Orthodox Church is, all too frequently, amateur hour.

And I hate to break it to you -- but every time such-and-such Church has a 'Greek festival,' or 'Lebanese festival' or 'Russian festival' or whatever, that would be a type of promotion, which is marketing. It's as if we don't want to get down to the hard work of attracting people -- we'd rather shovel kibbeh or baklavah or kotleti in their faces and hope for the best.  Like I said, amateur hour.

 

I think there is a HUGE difference in the types of 'marketing' that events like the ones you mentioned above, consist of....

vs

the Hinnesque 'event mongering' marketing of the actual 'holy services' (yes yes, I am not calling them Liturgy, but its an actual service, meant to worship God)   that he does.  


Marketing Liturgy like that would be comparable....should we start charging and selling tickets with the 'you will be blessed if you attend'  language behind it?  


 :'( :'(



« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 08:28:17 PM by Rambam »

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2014, 08:46:59 PM »
Benny Hinn and Arius aren't really all that comparable.
Yeah, at least Benny Hinn has recanted his teaching that each member of the Trinity was a mini-Trinity.



He taught that?  What does it even mean?
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2014, 08:58:34 PM »
Benny Hinn and Arius aren't really all that comparable.
Yeah, at least Benny Hinn has recanted his teaching that each member of the Trinity was a mini-Trinity.



He taught that?  What does it even mean?
Here's the quote:

"Man, I feel revelation knowledge already coming on me here. Lift your hands. Something new is going to happen here today. I felt it just as I walked down here. Holy Spirit, tale over in the name of Jesus ... God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person; and He is a triune being Himself separate from the Son and Holy Ghost. Say, what did you say? Hear it, hear it, hear it. See, God the Father is a person. God the Son is a person. God the Holy Spirit is a person. But each one of them is a triune being by Himself. If I can shock you -- and maybe I should -- there's nine of them. Huh, what did you say? Let me explain: God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person with his own personal spirit, and with His own personal soul, and His own personal spirit-body. You say, Huh, I never heard that. Well you think you're in church this church to hear things you've heard for the last fifty years? You can't argue with the word, can you? It's all in the Word."

Source.
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2014, 09:10:21 PM »
^I heard he taught that, but I had no idea that he recanted.

What I am wondering now is whether he also recanted his "little gods" heresy.

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2014, 09:52:56 PM »
Even Benny Hinn doesn't charge admission (at least, according to his web site).

And what's wrong with 'event mongering' ? If you want people to come, you have to tell them that you're open. This isn't the Field of Dreams.

My 'coming into the Church' began when I attended a Fredrica Matthews-Greene event at the local Orthodox Church. I saw an ad in the paper, and I showed up. Did that church use 'event mongering' or did it simply tell folks they're open? A little easy promotional tactic?

Hinn et al go way beyond this -- they know 'buyer behavior,' they know the hierarchy of effects, they know group dynamics, they know how to stimulate need awareness. The whole enchilada. It obviously works -- so why not put it to good use?
Are you trusting in the "wisdom" of men or in the power of God?
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Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2014, 10:24:32 PM »
Quote
our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.

Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?

I'll save you the marketing lecture, but any time you interface with the public, that would constitute 'marketing.' It doesn't just mean protestant-style evangelism. Many protestant churches have this down to a science. The Orthodox Church is, all too frequently, amateur hour.

And I hate to break it to you -- but every time such-and-such Church has a 'Greek festival,' or 'Lebanese festival' or 'Russian festival' or whatever, that would be a type of promotion, which is marketing. It's as if we don't want to get down to the hard work of attracting people -- we'd rather shovel kibbeh or baklavah or kotleti in their faces and hope for the best.  Like I said, amateur hour.

And here's the sentence to make this relevant to the thread: maybe it's this type of organizational naivety that underlies Hinn's and other's doubts about the Church.

 

What's "WOW" about that? Isn't the Church an organization, too? Knowing a little organizational behavior, strategy, and marketing sure couldn't hurt.

Eh.

I used to live down the road from Oral Roberts University.  Know folks who graduated from there. Know of at least one Orthodox bishop that graduated from there and taught there. ORU has been mostly a boon to south Tulsa and occasionally has a great basketball team -- it was where Bill Self got his start as a head coach.  So what if Oral Roberts says God told him to start the university?

Similarly, Benny Hinn's group has given hundreds of thousands to help out after Katrina and the Indonesian tsunami (according to Wikipedia).

So what if these folks bounce around a stage and shout at 'demons' and faith heal entire arenas? Didn't I see someone somewhere say on this board "We know where the Church is, but we don't know where the Church is not?" In the meantime, let's cut 'em some slack and recognize the good they do. And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people.



I have been to one of his crusades in london.uk, I went with my father in law who is pentecostal,so is my wife, but she is now seeing light.He started to preach for about 45 mins then he got everyone up a singing <happy clappy> then like i had thought the money bucks came round,The people were told not to put change but paper money and that god would give it back 4x over.He also told us that god wanted him to own his house out right and be deat free.People including my in laws are fooled by this man.God help the world when false teachers like him are about.

"And honestly, the Church could learn a thing or two about marketing from these people. "

WOW

our church is not a stock or bond or a commodity to be sold and traded. its free and belongs to everyone. we dont market the church...we are not benny hinn.


you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2014, 10:37:58 PM »
Use your vowels.

People will take your opinions (which are good in this case) more seriously if you don't sound like you are sending your buddies a text message.


Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2014, 10:50:54 PM »
you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. :) I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility to look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 12:23:48 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2014, 11:02:26 PM »
you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. :) I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

Its just the word "maketing" that did it for me. As if we are a product to be sold. and the fact that he says we should be more like that nimrod, hinn.

I belive our, you could say marketing is... "Come and see" meaning no presure, if your interested 'come and see".
we dont go around saying, "have you been saved" asking to pray for/and with people we just met, without them bringing up religion.
when i was young, i worked as a cashier and a lady i was checking out on my line asked me. have you been saved, do you repent your sins, lets pray together. ON MY CHECKOUT LINE!!!
thats how you alienate people. she scared the crap out of me. i was like, ooh what does she know about me?!

anyway im relaxing now, tnx  :angel:
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 11:03:10 PM by Nikolaostheservant »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2014, 11:09:45 PM »
you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. :) I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

Its just the word "maketing" that did it for me. As if we are a product to be sold. and the fact that he says we should be more like that nimrod, hinn.

I belive our, you could say marketing is... "Come and see" meaning no presure, if your interested 'come and see".
we dont go around saying, "have you been saved" asking to pray for/and with people we just met, without them bringing up religion.
when i was young, i worked as a cashier and a lady i was checking out on my line asked me. have you been saved, do you repent your sins, lets pray together. ON MY CHECKOUT LINE!!!
thats how you alienate people. she scared the crap out of me. i was like, ooh what does she know about me?!

anyway im relaxing now, tnx  :angel:
Yeah, I hope that you can see that I actually agree with you to some degree. I'm not keen on using these man-made marketing gimmicks, either, no matter how effective they are in the world at getting people to like us or buy our products. The building up of the Church is the work of God. We must seek to understand first the will of God, then cooperate with His will by doing the things He wants us to do to build His Church.
Not all who wander are lost.

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2014, 11:31:44 PM »
hinn is a salesman and businessman. I heard he was greek orthodox growing up.

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2014, 11:43:34 PM »
Couldn't have said it better myself, Mr. Aleut.

(On the human wisdom vs. Godly wisdom ... I don't see why they're exclusive. Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)

BTW, it is always a pleasure to see a little convert hatin' come out!  ;) Just hiding right underneath the surface, isn't it Nick? Cleaning up that attitude would go a long way toward fixing the perceived message of the Church.

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. :) I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 11:46:31 PM by Rambam »

Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2014, 01:13:50 AM »
Couldn't have said it better myself, Mr. Aleut.

(On the human wisdom vs. Godly wisdom ... I don't see why they're exclusive. Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)

BTW, it is always a pleasure to see a little convert hatin' come out!  ;) Just hiding right underneath the surface, isn't it Nick? Cleaning up that attitude would go a long way toward fixing the perceived message of the Church.

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. :) I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

convert hatin, aint what im about. im about what is right for Orthodoxy. if converts come in and do damage to the church, i will be the first to say so. if cradal orthodox start doing the damage, i will be say it. it simple, black and white?

btw" you said " Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)"

you and marketing!?

we dont market our church.
we just are, and they come to us. and we welcome them in with open arms.

we dont send ur army out to recruit people before they get recruited the competition?!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 01:16:37 AM by Nikolaostheservant »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2014, 02:07:27 AM »
Couldn't have said it better myself, Mr. Aleut.

(On the human wisdom vs. Godly wisdom ... I don't see why they're exclusive. Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)

BTW, it is always a pleasure to see a little convert hatin' come out!  ;) Just hiding right underneath the surface, isn't it Nick? Cleaning up that attitude would go a long way toward fixing the perceived message of the Church.

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. :) I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

convert hatin, aint what im about. im about what is right for Orthodoxy. if converts come in and do damage to the church, i will be the first to say so. if cradal orthodox start doing the damage, i will be say it. it simple, black and white?

btw" you said " Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)"

you and marketing!?

we dont market our church.
Depends on how you define marketing. You seem to identify marketing more with sales. Many people, however, tend to think of marketing as merely interacting with the public. How does our interaction with the public influence how people relate to us? Are we presenting to the public an image of a Church they wish to join, or are we driving people away from the Gospel? I tend to think of marketing in this way.

we just are, and they come to us. and we welcome them in with open arms.
Following your approach, we will always remain the country's best kept secret. :( Even the Great Commission tells us, though, that we must do otherwise. Jesus didn't tell us to just sit on our butts and wait for people to come to us. He told us to go and preach the Gospel to all the nations. This puts on us the responsibility to take the Gospel to the masses, to market our Church to the public, if you wish to speak in such terms.

we dont send ur army out to recruit people before they get recruited the competition?!
No, we call people to repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 12:53:20 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2014, 03:08:40 AM »
He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts.

 :D


In his book, he say that when he was baby,  he was baptisted by the patriarch of Jerusalem, Benedictus. And so come under the Greek Orthodoxy

It's the nuts part. Nuts means fools so you say he was educated by Catholic fools. You must mean nuns. But it's a funny mistake  :)

Too funny!  ;D


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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2014, 09:58:45 AM »
Couldn't have said it better myself, Mr. Aleut.

(On the human wisdom vs. Godly wisdom ... I don't see why they're exclusive. Aristotle told us a lot about rhetoric -- ethos, pathos, logos, and all that -- and this serves as the foundation for a lot of marketing approaches today. One could say that God built us a certain way, and Aristotle et al are just trying to figure it out.)

BTW, it is always a pleasure to see a little convert hatin' come out!  ;) Just hiding right underneath the surface, isn't it Nick? Cleaning up that attitude would go a long way toward fixing the perceived message of the Church.

you said;   "Right. We'll just keep the Church as our little secret. How's that workin' for ya?"

get an understanding before you make ignorant coments.

its working just great! and our church is not a secret!

we are not competing with benny hanna or hinn or watever.

we are not interested to be huge like the catholics, selling foorgivness of sins, for a fee...

ITS NOT ABT MONEY, OR THE SIZE OF THE CHURCH!

Converts...i... listen sit down relax abt 10-20 yrs before yo try to change orthodoxy. my goodness, you dnt even have a real idea wht its abt yet. i dont want to say all converts but a lot of yo ppl join the church all meek like and then BAM you think your going to change the chrurch you think you know better then eveyone else.

out church is not abt change.........its the opposit!

it should stay the same since the first church. unforunetly, changes have been made due to the times. but thats a mistake.
Relax, fella. No need to get your skivvies in a wad about this. :) I don't think anybody is suggesting that we actually change the Church. If we can improve the effectiveness of our outreach to the surrounding culture, don't we have a responsibility look for ways to do so? Haven't we been doing that for the past 2000 years? (I think an honest evaluation of our Church's missionary activities will show that, even though we have made great strides through such organizations as IOCC and OCMC, we still have a long way to go to shake off the reputation that we've been too inward focused to be of any good to those around us.) It's not like Rambam is suggesting that we change the core dogmas that define our Church.

A little less snark and attitude might avoid the appearance of what you call " convert hating " , it's a two way street in life. Stereotypes form from a mix of real observation and projection.

But you are right in a sense about "marketing" but I think "targeted outreach" is more descriptive and less crass in its sound.

Offline Seraphim98

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2014, 02:44:33 AM »
Here's my take on Benny Hinn and Orthodoxy.

He left Orthodoxy because he did not experience God in any discernible way as a young man. At 17 under the influence of friends at High School he began associating with Charismatics and soon enough visited a Katherine Kuhlman crusade where he was smitten by it's dynamism and particular style of church "theater." Whatever it was Katherine had he wanted. He even visited her grave some years later to gain her anointing. He deliberately modeled much of he early personal style and ministry on her and hers.

So really he left as an idealistic and impressionable young man...barely more than a boy. His opinions on what Orthodoxy is or is not is still framed by that shallow personal experience before he had a chance to mature and reflect.  He has been out of Orthodoxy far longer than he was ever "in" it....yet I still hold out a thin hope that one day, he might meet the right person...have the right encounter so that he may hear and repent.

He seems to have something of a narcissistic streak: fastidious dresser even as a teen...could never do dirty work without constantly washing his hands...lost some early jobs that way. There's the combover thing hairdo. He seems incapable of hearing correction from the little people in the pews/stadium seats. While he has said a number of highly questionable things over the years, he's only backed off the worst of them because others in equally or more successful ministries voiced their concerns. He's a preener. Tried to live "modestly" once in the late 80's early 90s....no fancy car, house, rolex etc. That lasted all of 2 months tops (I think the misses liked the nice house, car and other perks...but that's a speculation).

The guy you see on stage is not the guy he is offstage. When not on stage, he is very retiring, almost shy. Likely a hard core introvert. 

Staff: I don't know how he may have changed over the years...come to believe his own PR machine, but when he was just breaking out and garnering national attention, he had a number of good honest, decent God loving people on staff as his junior pastors (youth, children's, College, Senior, Married, etc.) They did not regard him as a phony, but rather looked to him as an instance of the real deal in a sea of phonies and dried out/used up/dying ministries. Sometimes the things he said gave them pause too (the 3x3 Trinity thing for example)...but they didn't say much....and in a few months it became known he had quietly changed his mind. What it's like now on his staff, who can say.

How do I know these things? I used to go to his church and I worked for him at the church school and in the sunday school program (I taught one of the classes), and volunteered with the youth ministry. I met him on a few occasions, and knew his younger brothers (casually), his inner personal staff, and heard and saws lots publicly and among the staff first hand.

It's what I saw that put me on the road to Orthodoxy. Things happened back then...inexplicable things that were not emotion driven...not for many at any rate. I saw people healed who stayed healed an entire 3 days. Saw thousands fall over when he blew into his microphone, saw young men knocked off their feet like hit with a sledge hammer, and saw others who's weekly "touch" looked more like attention seeking.  Most of all I saw the same thing up close and personal week after week after week...all televised...and after a good long while it bothered me that it seemed like "miracles" of the Holy Spirit were both being marketed like new and improved salad dressing...and that if these works were genuine, then He was being put on display like an elephant doing tricks in a circus.  The people seemed genuine in their need on the whole, and the ministry team genuine in their desire to see God meet those needs (including Mr. Hinn)...but it all came together like a giant "miracle" hamster wheel...a show...a "spiritual" entertainment. 

So I won't said never visited people under Hinn's ministry. I won't say people did not receive good pastoral care (as I understood it then) because the Jr. Pastors that I knew tried very hard to be good pastors and teachers. But for all that, there was an emptiness at the heart of it all...or to put it another way...if you came seeking titilation and excitement...you could get buckets and buckets. If you came seeking good fellowship and nice people, you could find that too....but it you came with deep spiritual and theological needs and maybe needed a real lasting miracle...that didn't make sufficiently predictable/uplifting TV.  The stuff there did not satisfy over the long term. But then again...sometimes seeing what you thought was "it" flame out while the pilot is oblivious can be a good thing.

Other stuff I noticed. Even though he left Orthodoxy...bits of his childhood memories must be making their presence felt: Look at what he wears...like the love child of a Roman collar and a Nehru Jacket. Instead of a golden cross, he has a big embroidered dove/logo. Also I was there and heard with my own ears this incorrect predictions about Castro, his near canonization of Lucille O'Ball when she died, his triple Trinity notion.

He may be a total fake now, a fraud...but I don't think he started that way. He wanted to be the male Kathrine Khulman (more or less) She was his inspiration in ministry, and in professional demeanor on and off stage. He may well have ended up far from her idealized example (perhaps not her real one), but he began wanting to follow God in a way that seemed new and fresh and powerful compared to what he had grown up with.

The pity is that Mama and Papa didn't take him to visit Mt. Athos and meet a living Saint or two.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2014, 08:59:45 AM »
Hey, we are criticizing with generalities here.  Please don't give a nuanced view of the man.  It is too hard to make fun of that way.  ;)
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2014, 09:25:36 AM »
That was very helpful Seraphim98, thanks :)

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2014, 10:01:53 AM »
I never went to one of his events, but knew some folks in my youth group did.  I did know a few benny Hinn wannabes.

Thanks for the background, Seraphim98.
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2014, 10:13:30 AM »
As I come from Charismatic Church. Benny Hinn is one of the well -known and famous pastor in Charistmatic Church. ( Although he corrupted, divorce, spoke false prophecy, curse the people who against his ministry openly and in public)

I read his book ' Good Morning , Holy Spirit' before.His mother was Greek Orthodoxy, but did not know GOd much. His Father was Greek Orthodoxy. He was baptised in Greek Orthodox but taught by Catholic nuts. He and his family orginally belong to Greek Orthodoxy .( As what he mentioned in this book --- Good morning , Holy spirit)

In this book--- "Good morning , holy spirit', he talk about his experience on the assembling of Cathoic , Greek Orthodox Church . He say that he could not experience the presence of God there. He say that most prayer of the Greek and Catholic Christians are mostly in fixed form, like Lord's prayer, Apostle Creed, etc. They do not know how to chat with God. Their prayer is too systematic, praying to GOd to them is just a " routine procedure".    Moreover, He also say that Greek and Catholic Orthodox is too focus on Rituals and dogma, but ignore the Great Power of God . They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?

This is funny because we concentrate on Rituals and Dogma because we listen to God. God instructed us to do so and we are. Like we Orthodox say all the time "He is in Error"

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2014, 01:26:10 PM »
Quote
WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?
Much like Benny Hinn's comments on anything else. He is a complete joke and a fraud. It would be best for him to return to the One Church of God and stop this "holy hand slap" nonsense.

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Offline Peter J

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2014, 09:26:37 PM »


And "Good Morning Holy Spirit"? Seriously? That's the name of his book?

<_<

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Offline walter1234

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2014, 11:24:54 AM »


And "Good Morning Holy Spirit"? Seriously? That's the name of his book?

<_<

Well I am shocked, shocked, shocked.

Yes! That's the name of his book! ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Morning,_Holy_Spirit )

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #70 on: October 20, 2014, 10:53:13 PM »
Here's is Benny (Benedictus) Hinn's testimony of leaving Orthodoxy for Charismaticism:

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIHx_rG27e8

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbwxwdyoGxg

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt4JuJ55Ms0

Offline xariskai

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #71 on: October 21, 2014, 11:47:04 AM »
They do not know how to listen the voice of Holy Spirit and be guided by Him.

WHat do you think about Benny Hinn's comment on Greek and Catholic Church?
If anyone supposes Benny Hinn has found the True Secret to listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit in a manner the Orthodox Church has completely missed would you advocate (and if not why not) we consider his view that the Holy Trinity is composed of nine persons?

 “God the Father. ladles and gentlemen, is a Person, and He is a triune being by Himself, separate from the Son and the Holy Ghost... God the Father 1s a Person, God the Son Is a Person. God the Holy Ghost Is a Person. But each of them is a triune being by Himself. It I can shock you- and maybe I should- there's nine of 'em... 'God the Father, ladies and gentlemen. Is a Person with His own personal spirit, with His own personal soul, and His own personal spirit body. You say, 1 never read that.' Well, you think you're in this church to hear things that you've heard for the last fifty years? Ladles and gentlemen, this thing is in my book and was tested by three theologians... it's all in the Word...” (TBN, October 13, 1990)

Man, I feel revelation knowledge already coming on me here. Lift your hands. Something new is going to happen here today.  ...God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person; separate from the Son and the Holy Ghost. Say, what did you say? Hear it, hear it, hear it. See, God the Father is a person, God the Son is a person, God the Holy Ghost is a person. But each one of them is a triune being by Himself. If I can shock you - and maybe I should - there's nine of them. Huh, what did you say? Let me explain: God the Father, ladies and gentlemen, is a person with his own personal spirit, with his own personal soul, and his own personal spirit-body. You say, Huh, I never heard that. Well you think you're in this church to hear things you've heard for the last 50 years? You can't argue with the Word, can you? It's all in the Word.”  Benny Hinn” program on TBN, 10/30/90)

“God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost—three separate individuals, one in essence, one in work—and, may I add, each one of them possess His own spirit-body. You don’t like it?” (Benny Hinn, Praise the Lord program on TBN (October 23, 1992).

^I heard he taught that, but I had no idea that he recanted.
He recanted after Hanegraaff wrote that he was a heretic by saying it was all a joke. Ha ha ha? The only thing funny there that I can see is that he kept teaching it over time without telling anyone it was a joke. But how can "revelation knowledge" that allegedly came to him from the Holy Spirit become a joke? Does this mean his Superior Method of hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit is a joke too?

You mean Benny Hinn did not study deep enough about Greek Orthodoxy
Hinn left Orthodoxy as a young teen. Obviously it was not until after the very sort of deep deep study evidenced in everything else he says and writes.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 12:17:29 PM by xariskai »

Offline xariskai

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #72 on: October 21, 2014, 12:20:52 PM »
That said Hinn's sort of Christianity is taken far, far more seriously in some quarters (like Facebook)[1] than Orthodoxy.

_______
[1]



« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 12:37:34 PM by xariskai »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #73 on: October 21, 2014, 12:45:54 PM »
That said Hinn's sort of Christianity is taken far, far more seriously in some quarters (like Facebook)[1] than Orthodoxy.

_______
[1]

...
Do all those people know you're sharing their Facebook posts on this forum? It's generally considered bad form for you to do that without their permission.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 12:46:54 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #74 on: October 21, 2014, 12:59:29 PM »




One of those posts is brilliant. "I had my virginity stolen by a Catholic priest. Type amen if my anus is healed and my virginity restored" and everyone just continues to post amen.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 01:01:34 PM by Cyrillic »
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #75 on: October 21, 2014, 01:09:44 PM »
God has shown Benny that He has promised seven supernatural blessings to everyone who will observe all the Jewish feasts.

Quote from: Benny Hinn
"As part of the Exodus from Egypt (recorded in Exodus 12), God instituted seven specific feasts. The seven feasts of Israel were divided into three seasons: Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles. Each feast continues to hold a wealth of information. The Day of Atonement, part of the season of Tabernacles, and the other six feasts have not been observed generally throughout Christianity. Best-selling author Steve Munsey says, “That must change! The time for change is now. There is too much at stake. I believe God has shown me that He has promised seven supernatural blessings to those who observe His feasts, including the Day of Atonement.” Get ready to move into the seven blessings of this sacred season!" https://www.facebook.com/BennyHinnMinistries
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 01:25:30 PM by xariskai »

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« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 01:22:33 PM by xariskai »

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #77 on: October 21, 2014, 01:53:46 PM »
Is it St. Varus, if I remember correctly, to whom we pray for the conversion of those outside the church?


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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2014, 02:23:27 PM »




One of those posts is brilliant. "I had my virginity stolen by a Catholic priest. Type amen if my anus is healed and my virginity restored" and everyone just continues to post amen.

You beat me to it.  LOL.
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #79 on: October 21, 2014, 02:39:02 PM »
God has shown Benny that He is moving believers into a new season of financial abundance. All we have to do is learn the steps required to be a part of this mighty financial outpouring.

Quote from: Benny Hinn
God is moving believers into a new season of abundance, beginning by receiving double what the enemy has stolen. Learn the steps required to be part of this mighty financial outpouring... discover how you can unlock the blessings of this unprecedented harvest for you and your loved ones! ...God is getting ready to do something spectacular in your life today! https://www.facebook.com/BennyHinnMinistries

"You want to prosper? Money will be falling on you from left, right and center. God will begin to prosper you" -Benny Hinn
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 02:52:17 PM by xariskai »

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2014, 02:52:46 PM »
Quote from: Benny Hinn
God is moving believers into a new season of abundance, beginning by receiving double what the enemy has stolen.

God reads tax receipts?
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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2014, 03:06:25 PM »
Quote from: Benny Hinn
God is moving believers into a new season of abundance, beginning by receiving double what the enemy has stolen.

God reads tax receipts?
Your supernatural financial harvest is directly related to the seed you plant.





Quote from: Benny Hinn
When God gives supernatural favor, it will make no sense to people around you. There will be nothing natural about it. It simply happens supernaturally!

Activating God’s anointing for favor through seed-faith giving and obedience worked in Bible times, and it works now! Many of God’s people today are beginning to step into a new dimension of abundance!

I believe we are about to experience a dimension of abundance like we have never seen. The righteous are always the people who prosper, even when the world is struggling. And we are just seeing the beginning of what God has in store for us in the coming days!  
http://www.bennyhinn.org/the-anointing-of-gods-favor-changes-everything/
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 03:12:39 PM by xariskai »

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2014, 03:11:18 PM »
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #83 on: October 21, 2014, 03:16:16 PM »
The righteous are always the people who prosper

I knew it! The poor are evil!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 03:19:54 PM by Cyrillic »
"We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!"
-T.S. Eliot

Offline xariskai

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #84 on: October 21, 2014, 03:37:08 PM »
God has shown Benny that all of the homosexuals in the USA will soon die, but not the way you might expect. They will die by fire, and many will be saved, but many will rebel and be destroyed. There is no other way to explain Benny's miraculous knowledge of future events than a way of hearing God that traditional religion just doesn't understand.

« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 03:54:01 PM by xariskai »

Offline xariskai

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #85 on: October 21, 2014, 04:59:18 PM »
The righteous are always the people who prosper

I knew it! The poor are evil!
Blessed are ye rich

Offline hecma925

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Re: Benny hinn's view on Greek Orthodoxy in 'Good morning , holy spirit'
« Reply #86 on: October 21, 2014, 05:01:53 PM »




One of those posts is brilliant. "I had my virginity stolen by a Catholic priest. Type amen if my anus is healed and my virginity restored" and everyone just continues to post amen.

You beat me to it.  LOL.

Amen.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

No longer pasting here.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/