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Offline psalm110

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The Third Temple Mount
« on: November 21, 2012, 06:10:24 AM »
What does the Orthodox Church teach about the future rebuilding of the Third Temple Mount ?.

Will the Al-Aqsa Mosque be destroyed ? or will be built along side-by-side together ?. The Jews in Israel have already prepared Blueprint drawings of how the new Temple will look, etc.

Did Jesus warn us believers about the Third Temple ?.

I've heard in history the Roman Emperors issued decrees to help rebuild the temple without any avail due to a supernatural force stopping them ?.


Offline Cyrillic

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2012, 06:24:00 AM »
I've heard in history the Roman Emperors issued decrees to help rebuild the temple without any avail due to a supernatural force stopping them ?.

Yes, that was when Julian the Apostate planned to rebuild the temple.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2012, 11:38:08 AM »
If there is any Orthodox position, I would say that it is that the Jewish Temple will never be built.  But since it doesn't involve us, I'm not sure we have a stand on the matter.
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Offline AWR

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2012, 12:33:09 PM »

I think that the Church teaches that we are the new Temple, not bricks, but the people of God gathered together.


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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2012, 01:24:28 PM »

I think that the Church teaches that we are the new Temple, not bricks, but the people of God gathered together.



I like that.
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2012, 02:03:30 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


I think that the Church teaches that we are the new Temple, not bricks, but the people of God gathered together.



Exactly, connecting the imagery of the Revelations of Saint John, the new Temple is the Church, which is not geographically limited to a single location, rather even as a seeming plurality all the members of the Church exist together as a singularity, which is the Third Temple.  

What Saint John Chrysostom has to say about the matter:

Quote
And for this cause, after the gospel is preached in every part of the world, Jerusalem is destroyed, that they may not have so much as a shadow of an excuse for their perverseness. For they that saw His power shine throughout every place, and in an instant take the world captive, what excuse could they then have for continuing in the same perverseness? For in proof that it was everywhere preached at that time, hear what Paul saith, “of the gospel which was preached to every creature which is under Heaven.”2757

Which also is a very great sign of Christ’s power, that in twenty or at most thirty years the word had reached the ends of the world. “After this therefore,” saith He, “shall come the end of Jerusalem.” For that He intimates this was manifested by what follows.

For He brought in also a prophecy, to confirm their desolation, saying, “But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, let him that readeth understand.”2758 He referred them to Daniel. And by “abomination” He meaneth the statue of him who then took the city, which he who desolated the city and the temple placed within the temple, wherefore Christ calleth it, “of desolation.” Moreover, in order that they might learn that these things will be while some of them are alive, therefore He said, “When ye see the abomination of desolation.”

3. Whence one may most marvel at Christ’s power, and their courage, for that they preached in such times, in which most especially the Jewish state was warred against, in which most especially men regarded them as movers of sedition, when Cæsar commanded all of them to be driven away.2759 And the result was the same as if any one (when the sea was stirred up on every side, and darkness was filling all the air, and successive shipwrecks taking place, and when all their 435 fellow-sailors were at strife above, and monsters were rising up from beneath, and with the waves devouring the mariners, and thunderbolts falling, and their being pirates, and those in the vessel plotting one against another), were to command men inexperienced in sailing, and who had not so much as seen the sea to sit at the rudder, and to guide and fight the vessel, and when an immense fleet was coming against them with a great array, making use of a single bark, with her crew in this disturbed state, to sink and subdue the fleet. For indeed by the heathens they were hated as Jews, and by the Jews were stoned, as waging war against their laws; and nowhere could they stand.

Thus were all things, precipices, and reefs, and rocks, the things in the cities, the things in the fields, the things in the houses, and every single person was at war with them; generals and rulers, and private persons, and all nations, and all people, and a turmoil which cannot be set forth by words. For the Jewish race was exceedingly detestable to the government of the Romans, as having occasioned them endless trouble; and not even from this did the preaching of the word take hurt; but the city was stormed and set on fire, and involved its inhabitants in countless evils; but the apostles that came from thence, introducing new laws, prevailed even over the Romans.

O strange and wonderful facts! Countless myriads of Jews did the Romans then subdue, and they did not prevail over twelve men fighting against them naked and unarmed. What language can set forth this miracle?
Quote
What then saith this man? That those terrors surpassed all tragedy, and that no such had ever overtaken the nation. For so great was the famine, that the very mothers fought about the devouring of their children, and that there were wars about this; and he saith that many when they were dead had their bellies ripped up.

I should therefore be glad to inquire of the Jews. Whence came there thus upon them wrath from God intolerable, and more sore than all that had befallen aforetime, not in Judæa only, but in any part of the world? Is it not quite clear, that it was for the deed of the cross, and for this rejection? All would say it, and with all and before all the truth of the facts itself.

But mark, I pray thee, the exceeding greatness of the ills, when not only compared with the time before, they appear more grievous, but also with all the time to come. For not in all the world, neither in all time that is past, and that is to come, shall any one be able to say such ills have been. And very naturally; for neither had any man perpetrated, not of those that ever have been, nor of those to come hereafter, a deed so wicked and horrible. Therefore He saith, “there shall be tribulation such as never was, nor shall be.”

“And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.”2781 By these things He shows them to be deserving of a more grievous punishment than had been mentioned, speaking now of the days of the war and of that siege. But what He saith is like this. If, saith He, the war of the Romans against the city had prevailed further, all the Jews had perished (for by “no flesh” here, He meaneth no Jewish flesh), both those abroad, and those at home. For not only against those in Judæa did they war, but also those that were dispersed everywhere they outlawed and banished, because of their hatred against the former.

2. But whom doth He here mean by the elect? The believers that were shut up in the midst of them. For that Jews may not say that because of the gospel, and the worship of Christ, these ills took place, He showeth, that so far from the believers being the cause, if it had not been for them, all had perished utterly. For if God had permitted the war to be protracted, not so much as a remnant of the Jews had remained, but lest those of them who had become believers should perish together with the unbelieving Jews, He quickly put down the fighting, and gave an end to the war. Therefore He saith, “But for the elect’s sake they shall be shortened.” But these things He said to leave an encouragement to those of them who were 440 shut up in the midst of them, and to allow them to take breath, that they might not be in fear, as though they were to perish with them. And if here so great is His care for them, that for their sakes others also are saved, and that for the sake of Christians remnants were left of the Jews, how great will be their honor in the time for their crowns?

By this He also encouraged them not to be distressed at their own dangers, since these others are suffering such things, and for no profit, but for evil upon their own head.

But He not only encouraged them, but also led them off secretly and unsuspectedly from the customs of the Jews. For if there is not to be a change afterwards, and the temple is not to stand, it is quite evident that the law also shall be made to cease.

However, He spake not this openly, but by their entire destruction He darkly intimated it. But He spake it not openly, lest He should startle them before the time. Wherefore neither at the beginning did He of Himself fall into discourse touching these things; but having first lamented over the city, He constrained them to show Him the stones, and question Him, in order that as it were in answering them their question, He might declare to them beforehand all the things to come.

But mark thou, I pray thee, the dispensation of the Spirit, that John wrote none of these things, lest he should seem to write from the very history of the things done (for indeed he lived a long time after the taking of the city), but they, who died before the taking, and had seen none of these things, they write it, in order that every way the power of the prediction should clearly shine forth.
Homilies on Matthew

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Offline Gamliel

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2012, 09:33:47 PM »
Did any of the Church Fathers present the Theotokos as the third temple mount?

Offline LBK

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2012, 09:48:01 PM »
Did any of the Church Fathers present the Theotokos as the third temple mount?

Not sure about the Mother of God being the temple mount, but she is described as the mountain not hewn by human hands, from which the stone (Christ) came forth to destroy the multilayered idol of Nebuchadnezzar. This incarnational imagery is in the book of Daniel.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2012, 09:57:10 PM »
I have my opinion, but I doubt it would be considered Orthodox.

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 10:29:06 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Did any of the Church Fathers present the Theotokos as the third temple mount?

Not sure about the Mother of God being the temple mount, but she is described as the mountain not hewn by human hands, from which the stone (Christ) came forth to destroy the multilayered idol of Nebuchadnezzar. This incarnational imagery is in the book of Daniel.

Yes, in hymnography, in some Patristics, in Liturgies, and in other writings and prayers within the Church the Virgin Mary is referred to as the Temple of God.  Not specifically as the "Third Temple" but by inference we could assume such considering there was previously a first and second one standing before Her.  This is why in our Orthodox version of the Apocolypse we reject both Millennialism and also the Jewish connections.  Reading Jews into the Prophecies post-Church era is an Evangelical/Protestant fallacy, if anything many of the Fathers of the Church had the completely opposite intentions.

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Offline Father H

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 11:12:02 PM »
If there is any Orthodox position, I would say that it is that the Jewish Temple will never be built.  But since it doesn't involve us, I'm not sure we have a stand on the matter.

This sounds like evil heresy, but maybe only because I am in a dispute with Isa on another thread  ;)

In all seriousness, though, if we are perpetually watchful (vigilant) and repentant, then we do not need to worry about the rebuilding of the temple or any of this one way or the other. 

Offline Father H

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 11:13:40 PM »
Did any of the Church Fathers present the Theotokos as the third temple mount?

Only one temple mount, but as temple, yes

Offline Kerdy

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 11:57:21 PM »
... if we are perpetually watchful (vigilant) and repentant, then we do not need to worry about the rebuilding of the temple or any of this one way or the other. 

My human nature fights against this sort of discernment, but my soul long yearned for this way of thinking.  This is one of the things I absolutely love about Orthodox perspective.  Do you what you are supposed to do and the rest will work itself out.  It must be a result of getting older.

Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2012, 12:23:07 AM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
It must be a result of getting older.
This is the unique insight of the Orthodox Church.  There are two unique insights which God has blessed the Orthodox Church, the first is that human beings are fractured by sin with our hearts and minds separated.  This allows a person to better understand over the long arc their day to day realities, thoughts, and feelings. The next step leads to the second insight, that the cycles of life and time are Divinely instituted.  These natural cycles of growth, maturity, and aging are part of the earthly life which God created and intends for us.  Gradually, over the entirety of our lives, we learn to finally and sincerely make deep amends for the sins of Adam and Eve, which is to say internal rebellion which leads to internal fragmentation (the first insight) and this lead to our own inherent sins.  We sin because of the fragmentation, and yet we are continually fragmented because of our sins.  It is cyclic.  So since sin is part of a human created cycle, God created the natural harmonies, rhythms, and cycles of nature and of the human body to seek balance while respecting free-will in order to teach us through tangible experience to learn to yield to faith.  

Biology dictates that human beings require assistance from a variety of sources at every stage of our lives.  At birth, through childhood, into adolescence, through early adulthood, through the trials of life, and the struggles of aging towards dying (see John 21:18).  God is who naturally created all these natural cycles of life and aging, and through this, we learn to yield, to submit, and to endure by Grace.  There is no stage in our lives we do not depend upon other people and upon God.  We can't be too self-willed, to selfish, to egoistical.  I was watching a depressing documentary on Assisted Suicide and horrifying secret organizations which go about helping people do such.  Several folks interviewed who were wanting to kill themselves ( :(  ) were all saying, "I want to be in control of my death, of my life, I don't want to suffer."  Even the Buddhists learned that life is suffering, and the Christian insight is that through suffering we are perfected by the Holy Spirit (see 2 Corinthians 12:8 ).  The fact that we are mortal and weak in our bodies, is what should push us closer to God.  This life was created to teach us this wisdom through experience.  One way or the other, almost all folks learn elements and pieces of this wisdom, stumbling into them by accident because of the naturalness of this wisdom.  

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 12:25:12 AM by HabteSelassie »
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Offline psalm110

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2012, 03:51:51 AM »
I had a orthodox study teacher she was the daughter of a Priest, she mentioned that the Third Temple will be built in the last age and the Antichrist will then appear who we Orthodox Christians believe will be a Jew.

I'm interested to hear any Patristic thoughts on the rebuilding of the Third Temple. How will the Jews get to build it since the Al-aqsa mosque stands will someone destroy it the last Jewish attempt to destroy the mosque the IDF busted a zealot organization in the last few days before the attack this was way over a decade ago.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 03:55:39 AM by psalm110 »

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2012, 08:52:59 AM »
I had a orthodox study teacher she was the daughter of a Priest, she mentioned that the Third Temple will be built in the last age and the Antichrist will then appear who we Orthodox Christians believe will be a Jew.
That's what my Serbian grandmother was saying all the time ;) However I don't know, what's the source of this "knowledge".


I'm interested to hear any Patristic thoughts on the rebuilding of the Third Temple. How will the Jews get to build it since the Al-aqsa mosque stands will someone destroy it the last Jewish attempt to destroy the mosque the IDF busted a zealot organization in the last few days before the attack this was way over a decade ago.

For sure Jews will be trying to rebuild the Temple all the time and to do that, as you said, Al-Aqsa has to be destroyed and it can cause more serious conflicts, so truly,  that's the reason of thinking "The Third Temple - last age"
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2012, 10:10:31 AM »
I have my opinion, but I doubt it would be considered Orthodox.

I had a orthodox study teacher she was the daughter of a Priest, she mentioned that the Third Temple will be built in the last age and the Antichrist will then appear who we Orthodox Christians believe will be a Jew.
 
Then again, maybe it would be considered Orthodox after all.

Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2012, 01:46:45 PM »
If there is any Orthodox position, I would say that it is that the Jewish Temple will never be built.  But since it doesn't involve us, I'm not sure we have a stand on the matter.

This sounds like evil heresy, but maybe only because I am in a dispute with Isa on another thread  ;)

In all seriousness, though, if we are perpetually watchful (vigilant) and repentant, then we do not need to worry about the rebuilding of the temple or any of this one way or the other. 

I think he might be alluding to the Jewish non-christian religion.He has a funny way of talking, like writing a bible :).
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Offline biro

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2012, 01:51:02 PM »
I did see a really neat model kit of Solomon's Temple.  :)
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Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2012, 01:53:43 PM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?
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Offline laconicstudent

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2012, 05:58:01 PM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

Offline JoeS2

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 06:08:27 PM »

I think that the Church teaches that we are the new Temple, not bricks, but the people of God gathered together.



Israel did forsake Christ and the new temple as stated before is referring to those who come to the Father Through Jesus.

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2012, 06:45:51 PM »

Will the Al-Aqsa Mosque be destroyed ?

I hope that day is so close Elohim willing!  ;D
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2012, 06:46:51 PM »
Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

Ancient? It was built around 650... to honor a demon...
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Offline laconicstudent

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2012, 06:54:40 PM »
Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

Ancient? It was built around 650... to honor a demon...

Yes, and? Still a beautiful example of early Islamic architecture. And since when is something 1,362 years old not "ancient" according to any reasonable standard?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 06:56:22 PM by laconicstudent »

Offline psalm110

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2012, 10:44:08 PM »
What I've been told is that the Al-aqsa mosque will be destroyed and the Jews will rebuilt there temple mount to welcome in the false messiah eventually. Should we worry about it much not really but lets just be vigilant.

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2012, 10:53:21 PM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

It doesn't, to me. I guess some people can't wait for the next convoluted theory or big war to break out, though.  :P
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Offline Father H

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2012, 12:49:23 AM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

And that is a good question.  If we are doing what we are supposed to (or, rather, the Lord leads within us), then the Antichrist can trample underfoot the holy of holies and still we are in the bosom of Christ.  So...  ???

Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2012, 11:27:03 AM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

what makes u think that that will be the location of a suppose third jewish Temple?

and you think that this supossed Temple will not outmatch its beauty?
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Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2012, 11:31:38 AM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

And that is a good question.  If we are doing what we are supposed to (or, rather, the Lord leads within us), then the Antichrist can trample underfoot the holy of holies and still we are in the bosom of Christ.  So...  ???


Antichrist?:)))

Trample underfoot this fictive's Jewish Temple Holy of holies ? Why would he do this and why would it have any importance to us?Why would this fictive character(Antichrist) do that to this supposed Jewish Temple if CHRISTIANITY is the true religion?And what does that have to do with Christianity and how it impacts it?
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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2012, 11:38:27 AM »
what makes u think that that will be the location of a suppose third jewish Temple?


Because that's the traditional location. The Jewish Temple can be built only in this place. Muslims will never agree to destroy Al-Aqsa, so you can imagine the size of the war.


Antichrist?:)))

Trample underfoot this fictive's Jewish Temple Holy of holies ? Why would he do this and why would it have any importance to us?Why would this fictive character(Antichrist) do that to this supposed Jewish Temple if CHRISTIANITY is the true religion?And what does that have to do with Christianity and how it impacts it?

Jews will consider Antichrist, who will be teaching in the Third Temple, as the Messiah, so it has influence on Christianity; some will abandon it and joy the false Messiah - Antichrist. Maybe also some Muslims, who wait for Mahdi, will consider Antichrist as the Mahdi. Some things are clearly written in the Book of Apocalypse, the rest is an interpretation of Orthodox monks, I think
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Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2012, 01:12:22 PM »
what makes u think that that will be the location of a suppose third jewish Temple?


 The Jewish Temple can be built only in this place. Muslims will never agree to destroy Al-Aqsa, so you can imagine the size of the war.

according to whom?
Quote

Antichrist?:)))

Trample underfoot this fictive's Jewish Temple Holy of holies ? Why would he do this and why would it have any importance to us?Why would this fictive character(Antichrist) do that to this supposed Jewish Temple if CHRISTIANITY is the true religion?And what does that have to do with Christianity and how it impacts it?

Jews will consider Antichrist, who will be teaching in the Third Temple, as the Messiah, so it has influence on Christianity; some will abandon it and joy the false Messiah - Antichrist. Maybe also some Muslims, who wait for Mahdi, will consider Antichrist as the Mahdi. Some things are clearly written in the Book of Apocalypse, the rest is an interpretation of Orthodox monks, I think

Again, why would it matter for Christians who believe in Christ who the Jews believe is their Messiah?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 01:13:12 PM by Azul »
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Offline laconicstudent

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2012, 01:18:52 PM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

what makes u think that that will be the location of a suppose third jewish Temple?

and you think that this supossed Temple will not outmatch its beauty?

Because al aqsa is here now and I have little interest in demolishing it and gambling on a third temple.

Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2012, 01:24:38 PM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

what makes u think that that will be the location of a suppose third jewish Temple?

and you think that this supossed Temple will not outmatch its beauty?

Because al aqsa is here now and I have little interest in demolishing it and gambling on a third temple.

R u a muslim or what? :)
Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2012, 01:31:33 PM »
"For if he comes to the Jews as Christ, and desires to be worshipped by the Jews, he will make great account of the Temple, that he may more completely beguile them; making it supposed that he is the man of the race of David, who shall build up the Temple which was erected by Solomon. And Antichrist will come at a time when there shall not be left one stone upon another in the Temple of the Jews, according to the doom pronounced by our Saviour" - St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15:15

Only 10 years after these words were uttered, Julian the Apostate attempted to rebuild the Temple, but his efforts came to naught.

I would say the Orthodox position is that the Temple will not be rebuilt until the coming of the anti-christ.

Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2012, 01:42:15 PM »


Only 10 years after these words were uttered, Julian the Apostate attempted to rebuild the Temple, but his efforts came to naught.

admittingly i only heard pieces about that story.. what foundation does it have?

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Offline laconicstudent

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2012, 01:51:51 PM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

what makes u think that that will be the location of a suppose third jewish Temple?

and you think that this supossed Temple will not outmatch its beauty?

Because al aqsa is here now and I have little interest in demolishing it and gambling on a third temple.

R u a muslim or what? :)

No, I'm clearly a space alien who worships the Twin Gods from Ricardo Pinto's Stone Dance of the Chameleon.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2012, 01:56:35 PM »
admittingly i only heard pieces about that story.. what foundation does it have?

It's widely recorded by historians.

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2012, 02:18:15 PM »
There is no reason to build it again.

What will the jews do? Reinstate a high priest, return to the old ways and the sacrifices? The jewish religion of today is nothing like the one of the time of the temple.

About what Christians/Orthodox should think, there is also no reason to build it again. This is also evidenced by the actions of Empress Helena, Equal to the Apostles, who built a church on the mount named the Church of St. Cyrus and St. John.

The Emperor Saint Justianian also built a church on the mount dedicated to the Virgin Mary.

Of course these were later destroyed by the muslims and mosques were built.

EDIT: spelling mistake of Helena fixed...
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 02:43:29 PM by Gunnarr »
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Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2012, 02:20:09 PM »
admittingly i only heard pieces about that story.. what foundation does it have?

It's widely recorded by historians.

can you give me the evidence to that with quotations and sources pls?
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Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2012, 02:31:29 PM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

what makes u think that that will be the location of a suppose third jewish Temple?

and you think that this supossed Temple will not outmatch its beauty?

Because al aqsa is here now and I have little interest in demolishing it and gambling on a third temple.

R u a muslim or what? :)

No, I'm clearly a space alien who worships the Twin Gods from Ricardo Pinto's Stone Dance of the Chameleon.

ok than.. that is not exactly what i had in mind when i said "why would it matter for us" .. what i did have in mind was Orthodox Christianity.
Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
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Offline laconicstudent

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2012, 02:35:55 PM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

what makes u think that that will be the location of a suppose third jewish Temple?

and you think that this supossed Temple will not outmatch its beauty?

Because al aqsa is here now and I have little interest in demolishing it and gambling on a third temple.

R u a muslim or what? :)

No, I'm clearly a space alien who worships the Twin Gods from Ricardo Pinto's Stone Dance of the Chameleon.

ok than.. that is not exactly what i had in mind when i said "why would it matter for us" .. what i did have in mind was Orthodox Christianity.


I guess my standard was more of something like, people who appreciate art, which I assumed would include a number of people here

Offline Azul

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2012, 02:44:52 PM »
the question is : why would it matter to us?

Because Al Aqsa is an ancient and beautifully designed building.

what makes u think that that will be the location of a suppose third jewish Temple?

and you think that this supossed Temple will not outmatch its beauty?

Because al aqsa is here now and I have little interest in demolishing it and gambling on a third temple.

R u a muslim or what? :)

No, I'm clearly a space alien who worships the Twin Gods from Ricardo Pinto's Stone Dance of the Chameleon.

ok than.. that is not exactly what i had in mind when i said "why would it matter for us" .. what i did have in mind was Orthodox Christianity.


I guess my standard was more of something like, people who appreciate art, which I assumed would include a number of people here

afaik , the Jews claim that the Temple does not have to be built in that exact location..
Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
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Offline Orthodox11

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2012, 03:21:49 PM »
can you give me the evidence to that with quotations and sources pls?

I don't have time to find the sources right now, but a simple Google search should bring up plenty of results. The Wikipedia article cites Ammianus Marcellinus, (Res Gestae, 23.1.2–3), who was a friend of Julian:

Quote
Julian thought to rebuild at an extravagant expense the proud Temple once at Jerusalem, and committed this task to Alypius of Antioch. Alypius set vigorously to work, and was seconded by the governor of the province; when fearful balls of fire, breaking out near the foundations, continued their attacks, till the workmen, after repeated scorchings, could approach no more: and he gave up the attempt.

Offline peterchristian

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2013, 08:35:33 AM »
There is no reason to build it again.

What will the jews do? Reinstate a high priest, return to the old ways and the sacrifices? 

Yes this is exactly what post Incarnation rabbinical Judaism believes and plans.  See here http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/article_cdo/aid/1121893/jewish/The-Basics.htm for an objective examination of their own teaching on their so-called Moschiach ben-David, their long awaited false Messiah who will be none other than Antichrist (literally in Greek, he who comes in the stead of Christ) who is to persecute the Church and deceive the whole world.

The holy Fathers taught this very thing; for example-
''The Antichrist will not only pronounce himself highest of the false gods, but will sit in the Temple of God, as if he were God ... the Jews, who did not want to believe in the Lord, as though He were an adversary to God, will believe in the Antichrist who will pronounce himself to be the god of all." Theodoret, Bishop of Cyprus .

''The deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion. Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb, so he too in like manner will appear as a lamb without; within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision [i.e., the Jewish race], and he will come in the same manner. . . . The Savior raised up and showed his holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem" Hyppolytus.

I would think many of us Greek Orthodox especially are aware of the unholy alliance of modern rabbinic Judaism with so called American Christian-Zionism and political Freemasonry in their age old quest to reestablish a Greater Israel, and the rebuilding of the Temple to usher in their new age Moschiah.

Our Lord had warned the Pharisees of this very thing if they continued to harden their hearts:   'I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive'   John 5:43.

"For God was made man that man might be made God."

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Offline psalm110

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2013, 05:38:43 AM »
http://youtu.be/mPmR7bzw7ng

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcIu7EJVGSo

Third Temple Altar

Altar construction, is this for real ?.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 05:39:03 AM by psalm110 »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2013, 06:16:04 AM »

I think that the Church teaches that we are the new Temple, not bricks, but the people of God gathered together.
He predicted the Temple's destruction and its rebuilding in three days- and the evangelist's comment is that He was talking about His body.

Offline peterchristian

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2013, 09:09:59 AM »

I think that the Church teaches that we are the new Temple, not bricks, but the people of God gathered together.
He predicted the Temple's destruction and its rebuilding in three days- and the evangelist's comment is that He was talking about His body.

Yes of course the true Temple is His Body according to our Lord, but you will have a hard time convincing the Jews.  They remain obstinate in rejecting the true Temple for the the one made of stone [a counterfeit Isreal with a counterfeit Temple and a counterfeit Christ to preside in it] and which they plan to build for their Moschiach ben David when the political conditions permit. 

Again Hyppolytus: ''The Savior raised up and showed his holy flesh like a temple, and he [Antichrist] will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem."

St. Paul in II Thessalonians 2:3-5 'For that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that Man of Sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.'

And also the venerable St. Irenaeus on the holy Apostle Paul's warning: 'Moreover [Paul] has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways: that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God [2 Thess. 2:4] . . . in which the enemy shall sit, endeavoring to show himself as Christ. The adversary will sit in the temple of Jerusalem, in order to show himself as Christ, he will demand that those who are captivated by him should worship him as Christ. The Antichrist will demand worship as if he were God.' (Against Heresies 5:25:1-2 ).

The holy Fathers and the holy Scriptures are proven true and reliable as we witness the progression of this fateful prophecy in history.
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2013, 09:47:35 AM »
My family holds that when the 3rd Temple is built, the end times will come. So much so, that they donate money to the folks trying to rebuild it. Alot of folks in my neck of the woods hold to that.
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Offline psalm110

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2013, 01:22:25 AM »
Daniel 9:27
New International Version (NIV)
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[c] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

What is the Orthodox Church understanding of the above verse was it fullfilled during Jesus's time or is this yet to happen ?.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 01:23:51 AM by psalm110 »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: The Third Temple Mount
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2013, 03:40:38 PM »
Daniel 9:27
New International Version (NIV)
27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[c] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

What is the Orthodox Church understanding of the above verse was it fullfilled during Jesus's time or is this yet to happen ?.
I think a common Orthodox interpretation is that this part happened in Jesus' time- in particular pagan use of the Second Temple before that was destroyed. "Him" in the above verse might sometimes considered to refer to a leader of gentiles- perhaps a military leader, but I am not sure.

The end to sacrifice is might be considered to refer to the change in spiritual meaning of OT Temple sacrifices. The Talmud mentions that about this time a ribbon in the Temple stopped changing color as it had previously happened.

In any case, the passage appears rather cryptic.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 03:42:19 PM by rakovsky »