Author Topic: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks  (Read 4247 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,593
  • Tenzin and Desmond
    • The Mystical Theology
Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« on: November 19, 2012, 03:49:16 PM »
Bishops, priests and religious should wear the formal long robes of a cassock during most occasions when visiting Rome, a high-ranking Vatican official has said.

Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican's Secretariat of State, made the request for the formal dress in a letter released during last month's Synod of Bishops.
....
"The very example of those who, sealed with the episcopal dignity, are faithful to the daily use of the cassock proper to them, during office hours, becomes an explicit encouragement for all, including for the Episcopates and for those who visit the Roman Curia and Vatican City," Bertone writes.

The cassock is an ankle-length robe distinguished by a series of buttons down the front and a sash worn across the waist. While typically seen worn by bishops and cardinals, priests in many parts of the world are more often seen instead wearing button down shirts with clerical collars.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 04:16:50 PM »
The 'Doxification of Rome has begun ;)

Offline Alpo

  • Lying Chalcedonian liar
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,470
  • Faith: Homofascists welcome
  • Jurisdiction: Bring your families
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 04:21:38 PM »
The 'Doxification of Rome has begun ;)

If the order was coming straight from the pope I would be tempted to shout spontaneous "AXIOS!"
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,593
  • Tenzin and Desmond
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 04:47:14 PM »
The 'Doxification of Rome has begun ;)

If the order was coming straight from the pope I would be tempted to shout spontaneous "AXIOS!"


Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican's Secretariat of State, made the request for the formal dress in a letter released during last month's Synod of Bishops.

It came at the bequest of Pope Benedict XVI, reports a posting at veteran Italian journalist Sandro Magister's site at the Italian newsmagazine l'Espresso.

Bertone's letter, first made public Monday but dated Oct. 15, asks bishops and cardinals "kindly to guarantee" the observance of a 1982 letter by Pope John Paul II on the matter.

That letter, written by the deceased pontiff to the then-vicar general for the diocese of Rome, asked that priests wear the more formal dress as a "distinguishing mark" which contributes to "the beauty of the priest in his external behavior."
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 04:47:37 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,039
  • Excelsior
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2012, 07:25:09 PM »
The 'Doxification of Rome has begun ;)

What a shame.

Offline Papist

  • Patriarch of Pontification
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,681
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 07:30:02 PM »
The 'Doxification of Rome has begun ;)
More of a return to our own traditions.
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 07:33:27 PM »
The 'Doxification of Rome has begun ;)
More of a return to our own traditions.

Precisely ;)

Offline Maria

  • Boldly Proclaiming True Orthodox Christianity
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,025
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
    • Saint Euphrosynos Cafe Discussion Forum
  • Faith: TrueGenuine Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC under Archbishop Stephanos
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 08:54:40 PM »
The 'Doxification of Rome has begun ;)
More of a return to our own traditions.

Precisely ;)

Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2012, 08:56:32 PM »
Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2012, 09:08:59 PM »
Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 09:10:21 PM by orthonorm »
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,593
  • Tenzin and Desmond
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2012, 09:16:50 PM »
Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

Truth is subjunctive.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2012, 09:18:40 PM »
Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

Truth is subjunctive.

That it were!
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2012, 09:21:16 PM »
Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.



Not everyone speaks the same kind of English y'know.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2012, 09:29:37 PM »
Would that all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.

Are you ESL?

Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.

Would that x!

Means something like:

I wish x were so.

The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.

Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.



Not everyone speaks the same kind of English y'know.

Yeah, except that this use of the subjunctive is pretty much part of the Standard Language. If someone is a bit educated and literate in English, this would either be clear or seem perhaps a bit dated.

Sorry if you are not ESL. Didn't mean to offend.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2012, 09:34:40 PM »
Yeah, except that this use of the subjunctive is pretty much part of the Standard Language. If someone is a bit educated and literate in English, this would either be clear or seem perhaps a bit dated.

Sorry if you are not ESL. Didn't mean to offend.

No, I am ESL.  But that still doesn't change the fact that the use of English is different from place to place.  Even within the United States.  Though I've pretty much used English my entire life, though it is not my native language and not used as much in our daily life back where I come from.  But English is the second official language there and taught in all levels of school.  Plus there is good access to English language TV programming.  Growing up even the Japanese anime were translated locally to English instead of Filipino.  Only in more recent times has the foreign non-English shows been translated to Filipino instead of English.  And I do live in Canada now.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 09:45:39 PM »
Yeah, except that this use of the subjunctive is pretty much part of the Standard Language. If someone is a bit educated and literate in English, this would either be clear or seem perhaps a bit dated.

Sorry if you are not ESL. Didn't mean to offend.

No, I am ESL.  But that still doesn't change the fact that the use of English is different from place to place.  Even within the United States.  Though I've pretty much used English my entire life, though it is not my native language and not used as much in our daily life back where I come from.  But English is the second official language there and taught in all levels of school.  Plus there is good access to English language TV programming.  Growing up even the Japanese anime were translated locally to English instead of Filipino.  Only in more recent times has the foreign non-English shows been translated to Filipino instead of English.  And I do live in Canada now.

OK, So I stand correct.

Thanks.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline Basil 320

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,153
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 10:11:24 PM »
Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."

Offline FatherGiryus

  • Don't Ask
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,081
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 12:18:30 AM »
Years back, I was at a Greek festival during a very hot summer, and, as I do most of the time, I was in rasso (rather than the clergy shirt & suit).  They asked me to sit next to a senior priest from the 'Old School' (suit, plastic collar that goes all the way around, no beard, etc.).

He looked at me with disgust, then said, "Why do you wear that?"

I looked at him and said, "You are wearing a black wool suit, long-sleeve polyesther shirt with a thick collar, and an undershirt, right?  I'm wearing a cotton cassock with a t-shirt underneith... who's baking to death in this sun right now?"

He looked totally surprised, then nodded.  "I guess that's not a bad idea on a day like today."

We both laughed.  I don't insult him, because he served honorably for 50 years in a very different world.  But, times have changed, and I think the Church is not so afraid of looking 'foreign' anymore...


Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
You can't find wisdom in the mirror.

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2012, 12:23:33 AM »
Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
Why does Met. Phillip not allow the clergy to wear cassocks?
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Nephi

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,822
  • A non-Chalcedonian in Chalcedonian clothing.
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 12:34:27 AM »
Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
Why does Met. Phillip not allow the clergy to wear cassocks?
He doesn't? I'm afraid I can't tell priestly garb apart at all, but I'm pretty sure I see my priest wearing a cassock-looking outfit after liturgy in coffee hour...

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 12:52:40 AM »
Good development.  The rule should be applied to clergy attire while conducting official responsibilities on parish property too.
Why does Met. Phillip not allow the clergy to wear cassocks?
He doesn't? I'm afraid I can't tell priestly garb apart at all, but I'm pretty sure I see my priest wearing a cassock-looking outfit after liturgy in coffee hour...
I thought Met Phillip had all the priests required to wear a collarino outside of the parish. Maybe I was wrong.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Nephi

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,822
  • A non-Chalcedonian in Chalcedonian clothing.
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 12:56:42 AM »
I thought Met Phillip had all the priests required to wear a collarino outside of the parish. Maybe I was wrong.

Oh, well I guess it is still in the parish. Nevermind then. :P

Online Cognomen

  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,029
  • Ungrateful Biped
  • Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules OK
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2012, 02:26:28 AM »
Would that [mean that] all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.
Are you ESL?
Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.
Would that x!
Means something like:
I wish x were so.
The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.
Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

Funny.  I just thought she left a couple of words out.
North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).

Offline Maria

  • Boldly Proclaiming True Orthodox Christianity
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,025
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
    • Saint Euphrosynos Cafe Discussion Forum
  • Faith: TrueGenuine Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC under Archbishop Stephanos
Re: Vatican: Priests, bishops should wear cassocks
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2012, 02:45:46 AM »
Would that [mean that] all Orthodox Christian priests and bishops also wear the frock or raissa when in public.

Do they?  The few that I know do, not sure if all do.  I guess if they have secular jobs or something, you don't expect them wearing the raissa to work.  I don't know how much of their secular life do they wear their raissa.  Might vary I suspect.
Are you ESL?
Maria is using a somewhat dated construction of the subjunctive minus the oft included exclamation point.
Would that x!
Means something like:
I wish x were so.
The Would that x! construction is a bit more emphatic.
Given the subjunctive usage you can infer the opposite is the case.

Funny.  I just thought she left a couple of words out.

No, I did not leave out any words, and yes, I would have used an exclamation after that statement. Sorry. However, I have been busy making Christmas gifts for my parish and the nearby monastery, so I quickly posted and left to finish a project.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.