Author Topic: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?  (Read 2459 times)

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Offline walter1234

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How to read the ' Book of Revelation' , Should I read in literally? Is there any Church Father teaching us how to read 'book of Revelation' ? Is there any Church Father's comments  on 'Book of Revelation'?

How does the Orthodox Church understand  on the end time? What will happen in the end time? Is there any Church Father's writings about the end time?

As what I know, I-Hop(one of the Charismatic Church) teaches that during the end time, a strong leader( who is the beast in Revelation chapter 13) will rise.He will be able to solve many problems in this earth,like Global warming, the conflicting between Isarael and Arab,etc , perform many miracles. Thus, He can gain the trust and reputation from all nations and all mens. Later, He (e.g That strong leader ) will  form a unitied economic system,political system and even a untied religion.Later, The true Christian would start againsting the formation of one untied religion. That Strong leader would then start to persecute the true Christian. Do Orthodox tradition support I-hop's teaching of End time?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 12:32:41 PM by walter1234 »

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2012, 12:30:39 PM »
Not many Church Fathers commented on the Book of Revelations since it wasn't always seen as canonical. The Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture's volume on Revelations has some. Venerable Bede's commentary is freely available on the internet.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2012, 12:37:34 PM »
How about the 2000 years' Orthodox Tradtion?

Within 2000 years, is there any Saint or Church leader commenting about the end time or Book of Revelation?

« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 12:40:04 PM by walter1234 »

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2012, 12:42:57 PM »
How about the 2000 years' Orthodox Tradtion?

Within 2000 years, is there any Saint or Church leader commenting about the end time or Book of Revelation?



Yes, yes and yes
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 12:44:32 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline walter1234

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2012, 01:10:40 PM »
Quote
As what I know, I-Hop(one of the Charismatic Church) teaches that during the end time, a strong leader( who is the beast in Revelation chapter 13) will rise.He will be able to solve many problems in this earth,like Global warming, the conflicting between Isarael and Arab,etc , perform many miracles. Thus, He can gain the trust and reputation from most nations and most mens. Later, He (e.g That strong leader ) will  form a unitied economic system,political system and even a untied religion.Later, The true Christian would start againsting the formation of one untied religion. That Strong leader and the whole world would then start to persecute the true Christian.


How do Orthodox Christians think of  I-Hop's ( International House of Prayer) teaching about the end time? Do you agree I-hop's teaching of end-time?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 01:14:49 PM by walter1234 »

Offline mike

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2012, 03:44:43 PM »
Actually, that Book is viewed to difficult to interpret and that symbolic that it's not used in services at all (the only one Bible Book) and the faithful are advocated to read it with scrupulosity and serious attitude.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2012, 04:34:57 PM »
How about the 2000 years' Orthodox Tradtion?

Within 2000 years, is there any Saint or Church leader commenting about the end time or Book of Revelation?

Hundreds and hundreds, though most are in Russian, Greek, etc.
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2012, 05:47:18 PM »
Quote
As what I know, I-Hop(one of the Charismatic Church) teaches that during the end time, a strong leader( who is the beast in Revelation chapter 13) will rise.He will be able to solve many problems in this earth,like Global warming, the conflicting between Isarael and Arab,etc , perform many miracles. Thus, He can gain the trust and reputation from most nations and most mens. Later, He (e.g That strong leader ) will  form a unitied economic system,political system and even a untied religion.Later, The true Christian would start againsting the formation of one untied religion. That Strong leader and the whole world would then start to persecute the true Christian.


How do Orthodox Christians think of  I-Hop's ( International House of Prayer) teaching about the end time? Do you agree I-hop's teaching of end-time?

I'll say it: No.

The view you describe is futurism, which is a 19th century radical Protestant perspective promulgated by John Nelson Darby and his followers. Darby was an Anglican priest who resigned his orders due to political reasons, and then later founded a group called the "Plymouth Brethren." He was very controversial in his time, but his ideas have caught on in low-church Protestantism, such as in many baptist circles. The various groups that identify themselves as "brethren" trace their roots to Darby.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2012, 06:20:24 PM »
Fr. Thom Hopko has a few lectures on this podcastwise on his opinion.

Gebre was even at one of them and got the photo to prove it!

It it an interesting take and one which a highly regarded Anglican Professor of mine would have on the whole agreed with. He was just 20 years ahead of Fr. Thom.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2012, 11:19:06 AM »
Quote
Mark chapter 13:
28.Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
 
29.So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
 
30.Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
 
31.Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.



THe interpretation "fig tree " and "putteth forth leaves, ye know that the summer is near" in some protestant denomination:
1.  fig  tree: Israel
2.  Putteth forth leaves, ye know that the summer is near: When Israel was restored and had their own country again.

Some  Protestant denominations interpret Mark13:28-31 as when Israel was restored and had their own country again, Jesus will come back this world  soon , and within the same generation.And Israel has been restored in 1948, the last day is coming soon and within 80-120 years ( count from Year 1948). Do Orthodox Christian agree with this interpretation of Mark 13:28-31 ?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 11:27:52 AM by walter1234 »

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2012, 11:29:33 AM »
Quote
Mark chapter 13:
28.Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
 
29.So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
 
30.Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
 
31.Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.



THe interpretation "fig tree " and "putteth forth leaves, ye know that the summer is near" in some protestant denomination:
1.  fig  tree: Israel
2.  Putteth forth leaves, ye know that the summer is near: When Israel was restored and had their own country again.

Some  Protestant denominations interpret Mark13:28-31 as when Israel was restored and had their own country again, Jesus will come back this world  soon , and within the same generation.And Israel has been restored in 1948, the last day is coming soon and within 80-120 years ( count from Year 1948). Do Orthodox Christian agree with this interpretation of Mark 13:28-31 ?

No. Israel =/= the Jewish nation.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2012, 11:39:01 AM »
Quote
Mark chapter 13:
28.Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
 
29.So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
 
30.Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
 
31.Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.



THe interpretation "fig tree " and "putteth forth leaves, ye know that the summer is near" in some protestant denomination:
1.  fig  tree: Israel
2.  Putteth forth leaves, ye know that the summer is near: When Israel was restored and had their own country again.

Some  Protestant denominations interpret Mark13:28-31 as when Israel was restored and had their own country again, Jesus will come back this world  soon , and within the same generation.And Israel has been restored in 1948, the last day is coming soon and within 80-120 years ( count from Year 1948). Do Orthodox Christian agree with this interpretation of Mark 13:28-31 ?

No. Israel =/= the Jewish nation.

Can you explain more in detail?

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2012, 11:49:42 AM »
The Orthodox Church sees itself as Israel.

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith9285
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 11:50:01 AM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2012, 12:02:04 PM »
Can you explain more in detail?

EDIT: Looks like Cyrillic beat me to it. :P
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 12:02:48 PM by Nephi »

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2012, 12:18:40 PM »
Can you explain more in detail?

"See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God." -Galatians 6

The Israel of God in the Messiah = the Body of Christ.

Read the letter to the Romans for why the flesh does not guarantee Israel.

Body of Christ = Israel now

old physical location of israel = Sodom and Gomorrah until the last day.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 12:21:41 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Offline walter1234

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2012, 12:51:59 PM »
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Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When its branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near..
The scripture should mean that when the body of Christ (the true Church) is grown tender and were built all around the world.

That means Orthodox Christian believe that before the last day would come, the Orthodox faith and the true Gospel have to spead to the whole world first?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 12:54:37 PM by walter1234 »

Offline walter1234

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2012, 03:00:44 PM »
Quote
Mat24:14

14.And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


If Orthodox Church is the only True Church which preaches true gospel and true faith ,should the true gospel and Orthodox faith be preached to the whole world and all nations before the end time?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 03:14:37 PM by walter1234 »

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2012, 04:42:07 PM »
Quote
Mat24:14

14.And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


If Orthodox Church is the only True Church which preaches true gospel and true faith ,should the true gospel and Orthodox faith be preached to the whole world and all nations before the end time?

Yes. This was, IIRC, the opinion of St. John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco.
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Offline walter1234

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2012, 05:21:23 PM »
Quote
Mat24:14

14.And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


If Orthodox Church is the only True Church which preaches true gospel and true faith ,should the true gospel and Orthodox faith be preached to the whole world and all nations before the end time?

Yes. This was, IIRC, the opinion of St. John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco.
RCC and Protestant are not preaching the gospel which the apostles and early church taught!!  Their gospel are unknown to Apostles and Christians in early Church.

RCC's gospel was formed by Anselm of Canterbury in 11st century. Protestant 's gospel was formed by John Calvin in 16 th century. Protestant and Catholic are not preaching the gospel of the kingdom .   THey are preaching another gospel!

THeir faith cannot be traced back to early Church as well!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 05:27:59 PM by walter1234 »

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2012, 05:26:37 PM »
Can you explain more in detail?

"See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. It is those who want to make a good showing in the flesh who would force you to be circumcised, and only in order that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. For even those who are circumcised do not themselves keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God." -Galatians 6

The Israel of God in the Messiah = the Body of Christ.

Read the letter to the Romans for why the flesh does not guarantee Israel.

Body of Christ = Israel now

old physical location of israel = Sodom and Gomorrah until the last day.


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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2012, 05:33:56 PM »
Quote
Mat24:14

14.And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


If Orthodox Church is the only True Church which preaches true gospel and true faith ,should the true gospel and Orthodox faith be preached to the whole world and all nations before the end time?

Yes. This was, IIRC, the opinion of St. John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco.
RCC and Protestant are not preaching the gospel which the apostles and early church taught!!  Their gospel are unknown to Apostles and Christians in early Church.

RCC's gospel was formed by Anselm of Canterbury in 11st century. Protestant 's gospel was formed by John Calvin in 16 th century. Protestant and Catholic are not preaching the gospel of the kingdom .   THey are preaching another gospel!

THeir faith cannot be traced back to early Church as well!

Are you replying to what I wrote?
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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2012, 11:25:55 PM »
Quote from: walter1234

RCC and Protestant are not preaching the gospel which the apostles and early church taught!!  Their gospel are unknown to Apostles and Christians in early Church.

RCC's gospel was formed by Anselm of Canterbury in 11st century. Protestant 's gospel was formed by John Calvin in 16 th century. Protestant and Catholic are not preaching the gospel of the kingdom .   THey are preaching another gospel!

THeir faith cannot be traced back to early Church as well!

 ::) :P

Oh, boy.

Offline walter1234

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2012, 05:37:03 AM »
Quote
Mat24:14

14.And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


If Orthodox Church is the only True Church which preaches true gospel and true faith ,should the true gospel and Orthodox faith be preached to the whole world and all nations before the end time?

Yes. This was, IIRC, the opinion of St. John Maximovitch of Shanghai and San Francisco.
RCC and Protestant are not preaching the gospel which the apostles and early church taught!!  Their gospel are unknown to Apostles and Christians in early Church.

RCC's gospel was formed by Anselm of Canterbury in 11st century. Protestant 's gospel was formed by John Calvin in 16 th century. Protestant and Catholic are not preaching the gospel of the kingdom .   THey are preaching another gospel!

THeir faith cannot be traced back to early Church as well!

Are you replying to what I wrote?

Yes!

Quote from: walter1234

RCC and Protestant are not preaching the gospel which the apostles and early church taught!!  Their gospel are unknown to Apostles and Christians in early Church.

RCC's gospel was formed by Anselm of Canterbury in 11st century. Protestant 's gospel was formed by John Calvin in 16 th century. Protestant and Catholic are not preaching the gospel of the kingdom .   THey are preaching another gospel!

THeir faith cannot be traced back to early Church as well!

 ::) :P

Oh, boy.

Yes,Catholic and Protestant are preaching "man-made" Gospel. They are preaching the gospel which men innovated . They are not preaching the gospel of Kingdom.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 05:37:39 AM by walter1234 »

Offline Malina

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Re: Orthodoxy and Church Father's view on Book of revelation and end time?
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2012, 09:37:55 AM »
I didn`t see many of Church Fathers views regarding this question but I remember when I was in pilgrim travel, our priest told us about last time on Earth. As I understood, it was taken from Orthodox Church Fathers. Our priest told that before starting of End, people will stop looking for God. Some people will found Him, but some people will stop all actions in search.