Author Topic: Orthodox Church "problems"  (Read 754 times)

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Offline Kerdy

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Orthodox Church "problems"
« on: December 07, 2012, 08:41:46 PM »
I have noticed recently a lot of discussion about the uniqueness of problems with the Orthodox Church in America.  I believe I understand the basic dynamics of the problems, but I have come across something which confuses me.  For instance, many of the problems in America seem to be with jurisdiction, who has authority, etc., but when I look at Europe, at least from what I can find, they have the same basic “setup”.  I suppose my question would be, why are there different problems within the Church in America which aren’t apparent in Europe, or do they exist there as well?  For an example, I found in Scotland there are Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches.  If I am looking at this in the wrong way or am missing something, please let me know. 

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 09:55:39 PM »
Who says these "problems" are not also in Europe?

Shouldn't this be in Free for All?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 09:56:13 PM by Αριστοκλής »
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 10:14:31 PM »
Who says these "problems" are not also in Europe?

Shouldn't this be in Free for All?

I didn't say they were not, only I could not find evidence they were.  I just keep hearing about all the "problems" and wondered why it seems to be an American struggle.

Free for all?  I suppose, if the moderator things it should be.  I would much rather this discussion happen with some moderation to keep people from getting out of hand, but I leave it to his judgement.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 10:15:27 PM by Kerdy »

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 10:19:59 PM »
I have noticed recently a lot of discussion about the uniqueness of problems with the Orthodox Church in America.  I believe I understand the basic dynamics of the problems, but I have come across something which confuses me.  For instance, many of the problems in America seem to be with jurisdiction, who has authority, etc., but when I look at Europe, at least from what I can find, they have the same basic “setup”.  I suppose my question would be, why are there different problems within the Church in America which aren’t apparent in Europe, or do they exist there as well?  For an example, I found in Scotland there are Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches.  If I am looking at this in the wrong way or am missing something, please let me know. 

Is your question specific to the OCA or do you feel what you've noted exists in other ecclesial jurisdictions in America?
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 10:26:39 PM »
I have noticed recently a lot of discussion about the uniqueness of problems with the Orthodox Church in America.  I believe I understand the basic dynamics of the problems, but I have come across something which confuses me.  For instance, many of the problems in America seem to be with jurisdiction, who has authority, etc., but when I look at Europe, at least from what I can find, they have the same basic “setup”.  I suppose my question would be, why are there different problems within the Church in America which aren’t apparent in Europe, or do they exist there as well?  For an example, I found in Scotland there are Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches.  If I am looking at this in the wrong way or am missing something, please let me know. 

Is your question specific to the OCA or do you feel what you've noted exists in other ecclesial jurisdictions in America?

It may just be in the OCA, but I thought there were also some issues in the attempt to envelope all Orthodox parishes into an all-inclusive jurisdiction, which was part of the OCA problems.  Until recently, I thought this was unique to America, but now I see there are other jurisdictions in other nations as well, but don’t see anything about them having the same issues.  Basically, I am trying to understand all the happenings taking place and why.  I saw the thread on a council taking place within the next year or so and people talking about the problems in America.  Is it just within the OCA? 

Offline FormerReformer

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2012, 10:34:52 PM »
I have noticed recently a lot of discussion about the uniqueness of problems with the Orthodox Church in America.  I believe I understand the basic dynamics of the problems, but I have come across something which confuses me.  For instance, many of the problems in America seem to be with jurisdiction, who has authority, etc., but when I look at Europe, at least from what I can find, they have the same basic “setup”.  I suppose my question would be, why are there different problems within the Church in America which aren’t apparent in Europe, or do they exist there as well?  For an example, I found in Scotland there are Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches.  If I am looking at this in the wrong way or am missing something, please let me know. 

Is your question specific to the OCA or do you feel what you've noted exists in other ecclesial jurisdictions in America?

It may just be in the OCA, but I thought there were also some issues in the attempt to envelope all Orthodox parishes into an all-inclusive jurisdiction, which was part of the OCA problems.  Until recently, I thought this was unique to America, but now I see there are other jurisdictions in other nations as well, but don’t see anything about them having the same issues.  Basically, I am trying to understand all the happenings taking place and why.  I saw the thread on a council taking place within the next year or so and people talking about the problems in America.  Is it just within the OCA? 

It's in any area where a large number of Orthodox immigrants from a variety of different jurisdictions happened to settle. The lines in Eastern Europe have been fairly well drawn for several centuries already, places such as here, the UK, and Latin America have the problem of competing Orthodox homelands claiming jurisdiction, with America perhaps being the worst of the lot what with having the Russians in Alaska and the West, the Greeks in New Orleans, and so on. The break-up of the Russian-jurisdiction parishes in America after the 1917 Revolution into their own competing jurisdictions (ROCOR, the Metropolia- now OCA, and the Antiochian Orthodox) goes a long way to adding to the chaos here in the States.
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Offline simplygermain

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2012, 10:38:50 PM »
I have noticed recently a lot of discussion about the uniqueness of problems with the Orthodox Church in America.  I believe I understand the basic dynamics of the problems, but I have come across something which confuses me.  For instance, many of the problems in America seem to be with jurisdiction, who has authority, etc., but when I look at Europe, at least from what I can find, they have the same basic “setup”.  I suppose my question would be, why are there different problems within the Church in America which aren’t apparent in Europe, or do they exist there as well?  For an example, I found in Scotland there are Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches.  If I am looking at this in the wrong way or am missing something, please let me know. 

Is your question specific to the OCA or do you feel what you've noted exists in other ecclesial jurisdictions in America?

It may just be in the OCA, but I thought there were also some issues in the attempt to envelope all Orthodox parishes into an all-inclusive jurisdiction, which was part of the OCA problems.  Until recently, I thought this was unique to America, but now I see there are other jurisdictions in other nations as well, but don’t see anything about them having the same issues.  Basically, I am trying to understand all the happenings taking place and why.  I saw the thread on a council taking place within the next year or so and people talking about the problems in America.  Is it just within the OCA? 

Kerdy, some of these problems are unique to this continent due to the age of the Church here. Orthodoxy has only been a driving presence around 200 years in the US (give or take) and only recently become attractive to those of the protestant ilk. The OCA is the youngest autocephalic church and has many kinks to work out. On top of this, not everyone in the various jurisdictions agrees that one unified patriarchal see should exist here yet.

 Also the ethnic lines are more grey here as opposed to Europe. And the jurisdictions in Europe have tight knit/ tight lipped policies as opposed to the American way of doing things.

There are major problems in the European diaspora but you wouldn't here much about them unless you studied the lives of some of our contemporary European theologians from the last 80 years.

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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 12:15:20 AM »
Quote
Free for all?  I suppose, if the moderator things it should be.  I would much rather this discussion happen with some moderation to keep people from getting out of hand, but I leave it to his judgement.

Free For ALL is a moderated board, FYI.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 12:16:26 AM by Αριστοκλής »
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2012, 02:46:01 AM »
Quote
Free for all?  I suppose, if the moderator things it should be.  I would much rather this discussion happen with some moderation to keep people from getting out of hand, but I leave it to his judgement.

Free For ALL is a moderated board, FYI.

Oh... :-[

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2012, 02:46:32 AM »
I appreciate all the information!  Thank you!

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 10:04:59 AM »
To be honest these "problems" seem to affect the Church on every continent except Africa which has been able to maintain canonical. This is not an American only issue.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2012, 10:56:19 AM »
Who says these "problems" are not also in Europe?

This. Over here in the Netherlands there are almost as many jurisdictions as there are parishes.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 11:10:29 PM »
So, is the difference America is attempting to consolidate or are other countries also trying?

Offline simplygermain

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 02:56:59 AM »
So, is the difference America is attempting to consolidate or are other countries also trying?
There is a South American delegation as well, but AFAIK no European one yet. Probably due to the deeper drawn lines referred to above.
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Offline mike

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2012, 03:34:19 AM »
So, is the difference America is attempting to consolidate or are other countries also trying?
There is a South American delegation as well, but AFAIK no European one yet.

There are about a dozen of regional Episcopal Assemblies.
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Offline simplygermain

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Re: Orthodox Church "problems"
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2012, 03:39:45 AM »
So, is the difference America is attempting to consolidate or are other countries also trying?
There is a South American delegation as well, but AFAIK no European one yet.

There are about a dozen of regional Episcopal Assemblies.
I stand gratefully corrected.
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