Author Topic: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)  (Read 3382 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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"Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« on: November 15, 2012, 10:15:58 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4d6KwePY-ns

http://ugcc.tv/ua/media/54809.html

It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him, a Belorussian canonized by the Latin Poles at the Vatican.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Peter J

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2012, 11:04:53 PM »
It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him,

You and I may not agree on very much, Ialmisry; but regarding this issue I must say that I myself have had trouble understanding the attitude of many Catholics toward him.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline choy

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2012, 11:51:37 PM »
It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him,

You and I may not agree on very much, Ialmisry; but regarding this issue I must say that I myself have had trouble understanding the attitude of many Catholics toward him.

What do you mean?

Offline mike

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2012, 12:55:44 PM »
It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him,

You and I may not agree on very much, Ialmisry; but regarding this issue I must say that I myself have had trouble understanding the attitude of many Catholics toward him.

Towards him or Bobola.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2012, 01:30:34 PM »
It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him,

You and I may not agree on very much, Ialmisry; but regarding this issue I must say that I myself have had trouble understanding the attitude of many Catholics toward him.

I always find it helpful to disregard the propaganda of either side, so I dismiss Orthodox propoganda about Catholic saints and I dismiss Latin Catholic propaganda about Orthodox saints and when it comes to Eastern Catholic saints I dismiss both.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 04:08:06 PM »
It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him,

You and I may not agree on very much, Ialmisry; but regarding this issue I must say that I myself have had trouble understanding the attitude of many Catholics toward him.

Towards him or Bobola.

To quote Fredrick from The Pirates of Penzance ...

Who?
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Offline mike

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 04:55:00 PM »
It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him,

You and I may not agree on very much, Ialmisry; but regarding this issue I must say that I myself have had trouble understanding the attitude of many Catholics toward him.

Towards him or Bobola.

To quote Fredrick from The Pirates of Penzance ...

Who?

Him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Bobola
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 09:54:29 PM »
It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him,

You and I may not agree on very much, Ialmisry; but regarding this issue I must say that I myself have had trouble understanding the attitude of many Catholics toward him.

Towards him or Bobola.

What atrocities did St Andrew Bobola supposedly commit?
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Offline mike

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 12:05:12 AM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 12:44:01 AM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".

Source?  And please don't tell me orthodoxengland.
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Offline mike

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 12:49:14 AM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".

Source?  And please don't tell me orthodoxengland.

Fr. Jan Poplatek - "Św. Andrzej Bobola. Łowca dusz" quoted

here: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/874219.html
and here: http://www.przegladprawoslawny.pl/articles.php?id_n=130&id=8
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Offline LBK

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 01:28:58 AM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".

Source?  And please don't tell me orthodoxengland.

Fr. Jan Poplatek - "Św. Andrzej Bobola. Łowca dusz" quoted

here: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/874219.html
and here: http://www.przegladprawoslawny.pl/articles.php?id_n=130&id=8

Our Jesuit "iconographer" friend has produced this piece of schlock, featuring Sts Andrew Bobola and Peter the Aleut. All very chummy. I'd love to know who could venerate such an image in good conscience ....  ::) :laugh:

« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 01:30:12 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2012, 01:47:23 AM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".

Source?  And please don't tell me orthodoxengland.

Fr. Jan Poplatek - "Św. Andrzej Bobola. Łowca dusz" quoted

here: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/874219.html
and here: http://www.przegladprawoslawny.pl/articles.php?id_n=130&id=8

Our Jesuit "iconographer" friend has produced this piece of schlock, featuring Sts Andrew Bobola and Peter the Aleut. All very chummy. I'd love to know who could venerate such an image in good conscience ....  ::) :laugh:



You mean without bursting out laughing? Well, as Roman Catholic iconography goes, people have been laughing at it for a thousand years.
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Offline mike

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2012, 01:53:48 AM »
So poorly painted ^
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Offline LBK

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2012, 02:02:29 AM »
So poorly painted ^

This was the best resolution I could upload.  ;)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2012, 02:04:19 AM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".

Source?  And please don't tell me orthodoxengland.

Fr. Jan Poplatek - "Św. Andrzej Bobola. Łowca dusz" quoted

here: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/874219.html
and here: http://www.przegladprawoslawny.pl/articles.php?id_n=130&id=8
links don't work
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Offline mike

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2012, 02:08:48 AM »
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Offline LBK

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2012, 02:42:39 AM »
So poorly painted ^

Just found one with better resolution, just for you  ;) :

Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Peter J

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2012, 09:10:16 AM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".

Source?  And please don't tell me orthodoxengland.

Fr. Jan Poplatek - "Św. Andrzej Bobola. Łowca dusz" quoted

here: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/874219.html
and here: http://www.przegladprawoslawny.pl/articles.php?id_n=130&id=8

Our Jesuit "iconographer" friend has produced this piece of schlock, featuring Sts Andrew Bobola and Peter the Aleut. All very chummy. I'd love to know who could venerate such an image in good conscience ....  ::) :laugh:



You mean other than Jesuits?
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Offline griego catolico

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2012, 06:38:08 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4d6KwePY-ns

http://ugcc.tv/ua/media/54809.html

It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him, a Belorussian canonized by the Latin Poles at the Vatican.


Hmmm, did you by chance copy and paste the links I had posted on the Byzcath Forum on this very same topic? :)

You are mistaken about the "Latin Poles in the Vatican" canonizing him.  Only the Pope can canonize and there has only been one Latin Pole who's been Pope and he was not yet born to canonize St. Josaphat in 1867.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 06:38:30 PM by griego catolico »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2012, 06:52:31 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4d6KwePY-ns

http://ugcc.tv/ua/media/54809.html

It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him, a Belorussian canonized by the Latin Poles at the Vatican.


Hmmm, did you by chance copy and paste the links I had posted on the Byzcath Forum on this very same topic? :)

You are mistaken about the "Latin Poles in the Vatican" canonizing him.  Only the Pope can canonize and there has only been one Latin Pole who's been Pope and he was not yet born to canonize St. Josaphat in 1867.

No, I am correct: the file was collecting dust until the Polish hierarchy running Galicia dusted it off and demanded his canonization and pushed it in the Polish (but not the Ruthenian) press, his cult being pushed in the Polish insurection of the January Uprising, and it was widely seen as a sign of support to the rebellious Poles (the loyal Ruthenians being quite forgotten).

I don't recall on the link.  Perhaps.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Peter J

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2012, 09:32:41 AM »
Only the Pope can canonize

Well there's a nice ultramontane way of putting it.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2012, 10:29:25 AM »
Only the Pope can canonize

Well there's a nice ultramontane way of putting it.
I visualize the Swiss Guards at attention around a cannon in San Pietro Sq., their supreme pontiff lighting the fuse, a statue-or better, the remains-of ol' Josaphat sticking out the mouth of the cannon.

Too bad I don't know how to photo crop.

Of course, we have our own cannon for the Vatican's canonization:
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Peter J

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2012, 06:21:57 PM »
I understand. And because you stuck to your principles, I'm going to canonize you.

(I was going to post the video, but couldn't find it online.)
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Offline griego catolico

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2012, 06:58:27 PM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".

Source?  And please don't tell me orthodoxengland.

Fr. Jan Poplatek - "Św. Andrzej Bobola. Łowca dusz" quoted

here: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/874219.html
and here: http://www.przegladprawoslawny.pl/articles.php?id_n=130&id=8

Our Jesuit "iconographer" friend has produced this piece of schlock, featuring Sts Andrew Bobola and Peter the Aleut. All very chummy. I'd love to know who could venerate such an image in good conscience ....  ::) :laugh:




Well, at least St. Andrew Bobola really existed... 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 07:08:38 PM by griego catolico »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2012, 09:47:03 PM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".

Source?  And please don't tell me orthodoxengland.

Fr. Jan Poplatek - "Św. Andrzej Bobola. Łowca dusz" quoted

here: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/874219.html
and here: http://www.przegladprawoslawny.pl/articles.php?id_n=130&id=8

Our Jesuit "iconographer" friend has produced this piece of schlock, featuring Sts Andrew Bobola and Peter the Aleut. All very chummy. I'd love to know who could venerate such an image in good conscience ....  ::) :laugh:




Well, at least St. Andrew Bobola really existed... 
Yes, the Vatican would prefer that St. Peter the Aleut remained a saint known only to God.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline griego catolico

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2012, 12:34:51 AM »
By fellow RCs he was described as short-tempered, violent, stubborn, prideful, arrogant, convinced of his own infallibility, and vindictive man. They even nicknamed his as "soul hunter".

Source?  And please don't tell me orthodoxengland.

Fr. Jan Poplatek - "Św. Andrzej Bobola. Łowca dusz" quoted

here: http://www.rp.pl/artykul/874219.html
and here: http://www.przegladprawoslawny.pl/articles.php?id_n=130&id=8

Our Jesuit "iconographer" friend has produced this piece of schlock, featuring Sts Andrew Bobola and Peter the Aleut. All very chummy. I'd love to know who could venerate such an image in good conscience ....  ::) :laugh:




Well, at least St. Andrew Bobola really existed... 
Yes, the Vatican would prefer that St. Peter the Aleut remained a saint known only to God.

Even if he did exist, there are serious doubts that he was ever martyred: http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/01/31/is-the-st-peter-the-aleut-story-true/

Offline Orest

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2012, 03:30:30 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4d6KwePY-ns

http://ugcc.tv/ua/media/54809.html

It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him, a Belorussian canonized by the Latin Poles at the Vatican.


Prof. John Paul Himka, a History professor at the University has an interesting chapter about this in one of his books. 

Offline ialmisry

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2012, 06:41:06 PM »
Well, at least St. Andrew Bobola really existed... 
Yes, the Vatican would prefer that St. Peter the Aleut remained a saint known only to God.

Even if he did exist, there are serious doubts that he was ever martyred: http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/01/31/is-the-st-peter-the-aleut-story-true/
http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/10/24/peter-the-aleut-the-original-martyrdom-account/
http://orthodoxhistory.org/2011/02/10/excerpt-richard-pierce-on-st-peter-the-aleut-2/
 Come on brother you know you can't just throw up a link.  You have to at least write a very very short synopsis of what you are linking.  You have been around long enough to know this is the rules.  You are officially warned. -Username Section Moderator
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: "Documentary"/Hagiography of Josaphat Kuntsevych (in Ukrainian)
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2012, 06:47:39 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4d6KwePY-ns

http://ugcc.tv/ua/media/54809.html

It is "interesting" how the UGCC has taken to him, a Belorussian canonized by the Latin Poles at the Vatican.


Prof. John Paul Himka, a History professor at the University has an interesting chapter about this in one of his books. 
http://books.google.com/books?id=j2yhkvCx60IC&pg=PA174&dq=The+Canonization+of+Josaphat+Kuntsevych&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3XDCUNyrDc-tqQGliIDIBA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=The%20Canonization%20of%20Josaphat%20Kuntsevych&f=false
 You are on post moderation for 31 days. You have been here long enough to realize that you must at least put a few words to introduce the link you are posting.  I don't think that a quote is good enough as they are not your words.  This is the reason we make people write their own words before a link.  It connects the quote to your thought.  Username -Orthodox-Catholic Section Moderator.
p.s. you did this two posts in a row!
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth