Author Topic: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?  (Read 3925 times)

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2012, 03:21:15 PM »
Orthonorm you might preclude a lot of this stuff that's posted against you if you expressed yourself in a way that isn't so insensitive to others' positions which you essentially agree with.

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Offline Severian

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2012, 03:27:27 PM »
Orthonorm you might preclude a lot of this stuff that's posted against you if you expressed yourself in a way that isn't so insensitive to others' positions which you essentially agree with.
+
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 03:28:18 PM by Severian »
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Offline Azul

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2012, 03:42:18 PM »
If Christianity copied paganism, wouldn't that just make us a different kind of pagan?

Everything is pagan , even Judaism and the OT.. The OT has a lot of copies in the Sumerian and Indian mythologies..
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Offline mabsoota

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2012, 04:33:36 PM »
no, the pagans made some mistakes passing on the true worship of God that was handed down to them (via their fathers) from noah.

Offline Azul

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2012, 04:41:47 PM »
no, the pagans made some mistakes passing on the true worship of God that was handed down to them (via their fathers) from noah.

noah is a mythological character.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2012, 05:51:32 PM »
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2012, 06:01:49 PM »
The divine nature didn't change.
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2012, 06:12:07 PM »
"Without Change" indicates that a new Subsistent Being (Ousia for some OO, Hypostasis for some OO and all EO) was not created upon the Incarnation; that is, the Logos became incarnate and was the incarnate Logos, rather than some hybrid thing or some mere individuated persona.

Now, the phrase "God became man" contains "became". To have become, something must be something now which it was not before; for God, this was human. So in that sense, The Logos is something now, or has something now, which he did not have or was not in the same way before.

The simple definition of change used by the Oxford dictionary is, "make or become different".

So...

Now, you could say, "He changed without change somehow." But this is sort of a meaningless statement, not because it is impossible for God (it isn't) but because that statement communicates nothing whatsoever. You could also say, "he changed in one way, but did not change in another way." That would be something, then, to talk about.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 06:18:36 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2012, 07:02:43 PM »
If God didn't change then that would mean He didn't really become human. End of story. God originally wasn't human since humans were created by Him. Therefore, by becoming human, God would have changed. If God didn't change then it would follow that He didn't really become human.

/circular deceptive Cartesian style argument outline
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2012, 10:41:40 PM »
no, the pagans made some mistakes passing on the true worship of God that was handed down to them (via their fathers) from noah.

noah is a mythological character.

Hey, that's not a good way to talk about OUR great great great great great times ?? grandfather. :(
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2012, 10:48:43 PM »
If God didn't change then that would mean He didn't really become human. End of story. God originally wasn't human since humans were created by Him. Therefore, by becoming human, God would have changed. If God didn't change then it would follow that He didn't really become human.

/circular deceptive Cartesian style argument outline

Not contradicting - (just adding a pointer)
His human nature existed from the beginning.

Then YES, the WORD  **became** flesh. Which would indicate change.





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Offline Kerdy

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2012, 06:22:19 AM »
If Christianity copied paganism, wouldn't that just make us a different kind of pagan?

Everything is pagan , even Judaism and the OT.. The OT has a lot of copies in the Sumerian and Indian mythologies..
We are all pagan, sweet!  Now I can pick anything I want instead of what's true.  I'm going for Viking Buddhist.

Offline Kerdy

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2012, 06:24:49 AM »
no, the pagans made some mistakes passing on the true worship of God that was handed down to them (via their fathers) from noah.

noah is a mythological character.

 ;D

Oh, serious?

 :'(

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2012, 10:50:01 AM »
One thing that keeps coming up in discussions about Christianity is the claim that the doctrine of the Trinity is of pagan origin. This claim is made by some Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, and even atheists. Can anyone point me to some *thorough* refutations of this?
How are you defining "pagan"?
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Is the doctrine of the Trinity pagan in origin?
« Reply #59 on: November 19, 2012, 05:05:54 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

. It is sorta the whole point of the Incarnation, knowing, changing. Anyhoo.


Yes, knowing and changing is part of the Incarnation, but I think you got it a bit backwards there smoothly moving in the wrong direction, it was about God changing HUMANS so we could know HIM, not Him changing so He could know us, as it is even written in the Gospels, "and [He] had no need that anyone should testify of man, for He knew what was in man."

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« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 05:06:45 PM by HabteSelassie »
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