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Author Topic: Orthodox "Amish" - Orthodox living old school  (Read 764 times) Average Rating: 0
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yeshuaisiam
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« on: November 13, 2012, 11:14:29 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_KjiX-zPzw

I know these are some old believers, and this group really appeals to me.

However, I have next to a zero chance of finding something like this in the USA.

Is there anything even close to this in the USA?  I may even be willing to relocate be it God's will.
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 11:16:19 PM »

Unchristian.

Not these people, but the pornographic desire for non-monastics to live in some cathar commune separate from "gentiles" and their technology...

Is UnChristian.

The early Christians lived in precisely the opposite way.

Our Church has historically lived as a witness to the world following the Tradition of the early Christians.

Even monks live in the desert to help those in the cities, not to escape. Christ fasted for 40 days in the wilderness, he did not build Little House on the Prairie there.

Our earliest writers boasted of this.

Now some spit upon them.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 11:21:17 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 11:25:27 PM »

There were here some 2-3 converts to Old Believer sects. You could contact them (one of them believed the Internet is sinful but he wrote that on his webpage so he may respond to your email).
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 11:44:27 PM »

Unchristian.

Not these people, but the pornographic desire for non-monastics to live in some cathar commune separate from "gentiles" and their technology...

Is UnChristian.

The early Christians lived in precisely the opposite way.

Our Church has historically lived as a witness to the world following the Tradition of the early Christians.

Even monks live in the desert to help those in the cities, not to escape. Christ fasted for 40 days in the wilderness, he did not build Little House on the Prairie there.

Our earliest writers boasted of this.

Now some spit upon them.

Agree and disagree.

Technology is a weird crux to Christianity.  Even the controversy of screens used within the church, or some who want veneration of digital icons.

Most people of this sort are happy to accept others, so long as people don't bring in the "worldly ways" of technology.   Evangelizing to others is absolutely a teaching and something of the early church.

There is a slew of this in the Anabaptist faith, where some churches accept some things, others accept others.  Many can drive, some even keep TV's for wholesome television and internet for a tool.   Some forbid it completely.  It's not about hiding, but a means of "shunning" the evil ways of the world.  We all know that TV is really a hand full of pearls in a cess pool for instance.

Anyway, I do not agree that people of this sort are unChristian because of their rejection of technology and living and old fashioned lifestyle.   How isolated they are and the willingness to accept others and take advantage spreading their faith is important. (I do not know enough about them to make that call) To call technology "sinful" in itself I'd consider wrong.

We practice at our home "limited technology".  We booted out the TV.  Use the internet for a tool... We discovered a wholesomeness that we really liked without the influence of TV and mainstream music.

As a quick flib, in the days of Little House on the Prairie, the divorce rate was nil, homosexuality wasn't mainstream, abortion was unheard of, parents took care of their children, children took care of elderly parents, siblings actually loved and cared for one another.   They did evangelize though (when possible), and had communities.   They accepted outsiders as well.
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« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 11:45:34 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_KjiX-zPzw

I know these are some old believers, and this group really appeals to me.

However, I have next to a zero chance of finding something like this in the USA.

Is there anything even close to this in the USA?  I may even be willing to relocate be it God's will.
Somewhere here I posted about the Amish Orthodox (they're in UOCUSA).  I think they are in Kentucky.
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« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 11:58:44 PM »

Quote
in the days of Little House on the Prairie, the divorce rate was nil,

Adultery was just as prevalent, and the shame of a woman walking out of an abusive marriage was immense. No such shame for a man who fooled around and violated his vows.

Quote
abortion was unheard of,

Ahem. There's a huge difference between "abortions were rare/non-existent" and "abortion was kept secret". At least now there's far less hypocrisy about it.

Quote
parents took care of their children

Ever heard of poor houses and sweatshops? Of the boys being favored over the girls in a family?

Quote
siblings actually loved and cared for one another.

Heh. Until it was time for the parents' will to be read out.

Read some history, yesh. The social problems that are complained about today have been around since before Moses was a lad. They were even complained about in Laura Ingalls' day. There have been good and bad folks throughout human history. Always have, always will.

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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2012, 12:19:44 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Agree and disagree.

Technology is a weird crux to Christianity.  Even the controversy of screens used within the church, or some who want veneration of digital icons.

Most people of this sort are happy to accept others, so long as people don't bring in the "worldly ways" of technology.   Evangelizing to others is absolutely a teaching and something of the early church.

There is a slew of this in the Anabaptist faith, where some churches accept some things, others accept others.  Many can drive, some even keep TV's for wholesome television and internet for a tool.   Some forbid it completely.  It's not about hiding, but a means of "shunning" the evil ways of the world.  We all know that TV is really a hand full of pearls in a cess pool for instance.

Anyway, I do not agree that people of this sort are unChristian because of their rejection of technology and living and old fashioned lifestyle.   How isolated they are and the willingness to accept others and take advantage spreading their faith is important. (I do not know enough about them to make that call) To call technology "sinful" in itself I'd consider wrong.

We practice at our home "limited technology". 

We should never mistake an anachronistic lifestyle as being Tradition.  What is writing but another technological innovation? Perhaps the Church should go back to oral history than? Candles? Technology too..  The sheer light of the stars and moon are God's gift enough. police

There is a word for such thinking, it isn't Tradition, or even non-capital "t" traditional, rather it is called Fundamentalism.  I have no problem with folks rejecting technology by the way, so long as they don't do it in a scathing or condemning way, as has already mentioned, Christians have been called into societies to save the world by example, by dedication, by community, rather than fleeing into the wildernesses.  Besides of which, we should be careful even more to avoid romanticism even within Orthodox let alone of other heterodox communities, after all, surely the Amish have their demons.  Such even followed the blessed Saint Anthony into the wilderness..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2012, 12:40:52 AM »

Quote
in the days of Little House on the Prairie, the divorce rate was nil,

Adultery was just as prevalent, and the shame of a woman walking out of an abusive marriage was immense. No such shame for a man who fooled around and violated his vows.

Quote
abortion was unheard of,

Ahem. There's a huge difference between "abortions were rare/non-existent" and "abortion was kept secret". At least now there's far less hypocrisy about it.

Quote
parents took care of their children

Ever heard of poor houses and sweatshops? Of the boys being favored over the girls in a family?

Quote
siblings actually loved and cared for one another.

Heh. Until it was time for the parents' will to be read out.

Read some history, yesh. The social problems that are complained about today have been around since before Moses was a lad. They were even complained about in Laura Ingalls' day. There have been good and bad folks throughout human history. Always have, always will.



The divorce rate in America in 1890 was 10%  - Shacking up (co-habitation) was not common
The divorce rate in America in 2010 was 51%  - Shacking up (co-habitation) was common

These rates include Christian and non-Christian.

I do not believe that adultery was just as common in America in 1890.  From historical books that I have read, many women were even protected through escorts when not with their family.   Courting was often done with a courting candle at the parent's home.  

How do you know abortion was just as common and kept secret?

Yes, I have heard of sweatshops. There are always bad examples.

Even though I do agree with you that there has always been problems, there is a much higher rate of problems today.

Divorce Rates through decades:
    1870    8%
    1890    10%
    1900    12%
    1920    18%
    1930    24%
    1940    26%
    1950    30%
    1960    39%
    1970    48%
(hovers around 50% after that)

This can be attributed to many things.
Women's lib of the 60's?
Women in the workplace?
Influences of music & television?

How can one compare a 10% of Laura Ingall's childhood divorce rate where virtually nobody shacked up, and compare that to today's 50% rate where people live in co-habitation for years and aren't statistically counted??  Just say "yeah well men were just as adulterous then"....

Now, let's talk about the massive amount of people coming out as homosexuals today...

I don't agree entirely with what it seems you are getting at (but respect your opinion).  I believe morality as whole was much stronger then.  Dinners at the table.  Families working together.  No influence of TV, Main Stream Music, Video Games...   No isolation of one in front of a screen for hours ignoring each other in the same room...

There are many reasons to cling to the old ways of life.

EDIT*** Just to clarify, I believe that people always were sinful in many ways, but I do believe that technology is a platform for people to develop and share sinful behavior.  People in the 1950's were shocked from Elvis shaking his hips, for instance, which is small potatoes at nearly any main stream music vid.   1 quick search can bring  us to Christiana A's, "not myself tonight", which is so blasphemous, so evil and vile in so many ways.  I had the unfortunate 20 second viewing of this video before I left a room.  Commonly accepted today.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 12:53:17 AM by yeshuaisiam » Logged

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yeshuaisiam
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2012, 12:45:12 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


Agree and disagree.

Technology is a weird crux to Christianity.  Even the controversy of screens used within the church, or some who want veneration of digital icons.

Most people of this sort are happy to accept others, so long as people don't bring in the "worldly ways" of technology.   Evangelizing to others is absolutely a teaching and something of the early church.

There is a slew of this in the Anabaptist faith, where some churches accept some things, others accept others.  Many can drive, some even keep TV's for wholesome television and internet for a tool.   Some forbid it completely.  It's not about hiding, but a means of "shunning" the evil ways of the world.  We all know that TV is really a hand full of pearls in a cess pool for instance.

Anyway, I do not agree that people of this sort are unChristian because of their rejection of technology and living and old fashioned lifestyle.   How isolated they are and the willingness to accept others and take advantage spreading their faith is important. (I do not know enough about them to make that call) To call technology "sinful" in itself I'd consider wrong.

We practice at our home "limited technology". 

We should never mistake an anachronistic lifestyle as being Tradition.  What is writing but another technological innovation? Perhaps the Church should go back to oral history than? Candles? Technology too..  The sheer light of the stars and moon are God's gift enough. police

There is a word for such thinking, it isn't Tradition, or even non-capital "t" traditional, rather it is called Fundamentalism.  I have no problem with folks rejecting technology by the way, so long as they don't do it in a scathing or condemning way, as has already mentioned, Christians have been called into societies to save the world by example, by dedication, by community, rather than fleeing into the wildernesses.  Besides of which, we should be careful even more to avoid romanticism even within Orthodox let alone of other heterodox communities, after all, surely the Amish have their demons.  Such even followed the blessed Saint Anthony into the wilderness..

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I agree with you.   Writing is technological, but I think all can agree that writing in and of itself is a far cry from media.

But just to make note, there is one particular time we are supposed to flee to the wilderness Smiley   I hope I'm not around for that moment though.   If I am hope to see you there, or at least I hope you see me there Tongue
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2012, 01:15:35 AM »

yeshuaisiam, thx 4 the video i enjoyed it. I like there lifestyle. all this technology, computers ipads cell phones.....detract us from whats important. technology has been shoved down our throat lately sooo much. Do we really need the iphone xvii 7months after the last one...NO they just want us to think so so we can constantly keep upgrading and giving our $$ to them!

Anyway this is a subject that gets to me. i love technology and what it offers but i can live without it, i did most of my life. we should not relay on such things so heavily. kids today think they r going to die if they don't have internet access of a cell phone.

BTW: technology was supposed to give us / free us of all this time....i don't feel i have any more time cause of techs time saving qualities. If anything i have less cause of it. this comp im typing on right now, past my bead time and bible reading time?!?!?

I think the Buddhist are correct when they said "the middle ground" not to one extream or the other, somewhere in the middle.

Oh and you have hope of joining a community like the. there is one in the USA--in Alaska.
here is a video clip of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96PdjClRFho
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2012, 10:22:06 AM »

We should never mistake an anachronistic lifestyle as being Tradition. 

Excellent point!
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 10:56:39 AM »

There are Old Believer communities like this in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska.

Here is a documentary made in 1981 about such a community in Oregon and a website about Old Believers in North America
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2012, 01:33:03 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_KjiX-zPzw

I know these are some old believers, and this group really appeals to me.

However, I have next to a zero chance of finding something like this in the USA.

Is there anything even close to this in the USA?  I may even be willing to relocate be it God's will.
In Woodburn, Or. There are priested and non-priested sects of Old Believers who live and work in a very large, loose knit community. Wikipedia has a lot on them.

My Godson is an old believer who needed a sponsor to receive communion in a town that had no Old Believer parish, only Serbian (old calendar) which his parents thought was acceptable under the circumstances. He was nearly 30 so I was I.geothermal by the fact that he asked his parents blessing.
Anyway, they are quite remarkable and many are highly respected and loved by the greater Orthodox community in Portland. Some very close ties have been made like eldership, godfamilies, friendships and marriages exist between us.

Many of the men work in Alaska on the boats each year and some are migrant farmers for the many orchards, farms and vineyards in our area. It is important to note that while they keep mainly to themselves, except for the very few communes that have been created, they interact, live and work in normal settings.

Christianity is not meant to be walled off from the world though. A faith where people do not spread the gospel is not reflective of apostolic works. They are in schism by choice. There are some.who have come back to the larger church and I believe this is because in Orthodoxy, even while one thinks they are doing the right thing in the moment by protecting their faith, separating themselves from the church, to be fully Orthodox one must recognize the importance of communion with the Patriarchal Sees. Many of them know this and some have, as I said earlier, already made the jump.
All of these sects were reactions to Soviet communism and its influences in the church.

Orthodox are not Amish.

Good luck on your search! If you are still interested I can put you in touch with someone who may need some help on their land and a few Old Believers live and work there occasionally.
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2012, 01:38:03 PM »

Thanks for all the great responses.  I will dig into this further, as it is something that heavily appeals to me.
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 01:49:24 PM »

I will dig into this further, as it is something that heavily appeals to me.

Really? They have no priests, no mysteries except (from baptism). All they keep of Tradition are reader services and icons. I thought you do not believe in icon veneration. How can they appeal to you?
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 02:19:09 PM »

I will dig into this further, as it is something that heavily appeals to me.

Really? They have no priests, no mysteries except (from baptism). All they keep of Tradition are reader services and icons. I thought you do not believe in icon veneration. How can they appeal to you?

There are priested Old Believer groups in OR as well as priestless ones.

Your latter question, however, still stands as Old Believers are VERY much iconodules.
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 02:28:17 PM »

I will dig into this further, as it is something that heavily appeals to me.

Really? They have no priests, no mysteries except (from baptism). All they keep of Tradition are reader services and icons. I thought you do not believe in icon veneration. How can they appeal to you?

There are priested Old Believer groups in OR as well as priestless ones.

Your latter question, however, still stands as Old Believers are VERY much iconodules.

The ones mentioned in the OP are priestless so they are nothing more than Protestants+icons.
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2012, 03:46:46 PM »

We should never mistake an anachronistic lifestyle as being Tradition. 

Excellent point!
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2012, 04:22:24 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

There are Old Believer communities like this in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska.

Here is a documentary made in 1981 about such a community in Oregon and a website about Old Believers in North America

How come I am not in the least bit surprised that in Oregon or Washington there are communes, Orthodox or otherwise, tell me, do these Old Believers have their own line of delicious Craft Porter too  laugh

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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