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Poll
Question: Homosexuality comes up frequenbtly on Orthodox forums because..
Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet. - 19 (26.8%)
Since drunkeness, adultery, theft and dishonesty have been eradicated it's the only sin left to fight - 10 (14.1%)
Apparently most Orthodox Christians have lots of gay family, friends and associates - 7 (9.9%)
Orthodox forums attract a lot of self torturing closet cases and men with doubts about thier own masculinity - 20 (28.2%)
Some folks who need Prozac aren't on it yet. - 15 (21.1%)
Total Voters: 71

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Author Topic: Yet Another Gay Marriage Thread  (Read 68279 times) Average Rating: 0
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Veniamin
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« Reply #270 on: May 12, 2009, 01:55:56 PM »

No, they don't make you more reliable.

Corroboration makes you more reliable.  Going on about all the nice stuff you do doesn't.
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« Reply #271 on: May 12, 2009, 01:56:51 PM »

I did find this.

http://ochlophobist.blogspot.com/2008/11/this-from-here-ht-to-fr.html
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Theoprovlitos
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« Reply #272 on: May 12, 2009, 02:01:13 PM »

Andrew

THIS is what I am trying to do. Bring the issue on the surface! What was written about Communion to tourists in Helsinki is true.
You should see what is going on in Tapiola St Herman of Alaska Church whichas been turned to a gay club. Even married lesbians and many gay couples attend the service and receive communion as if nothing is wrong.

They don't even FAST anymore. The Romanian friend from Finland can probaly confrm whay I am saying.
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theistgal
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don't even go there!


« Reply #273 on: May 12, 2009, 02:04:47 PM »

I would like to address a good morning to the Inquisition.

No one expects ... the Finnish Inquisition!!!
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« Reply #274 on: May 12, 2009, 02:09:16 PM »

Andrew

THIS is what I am trying to do. Bring the issue on the surface! What was written about Communion to tourists in Helsinki is true.
You should see what is going on in Tapiola St Herman of Alaska Church whichas been turned to a gay club. Even married lesbians and many gay couples attend the service and receive communion as if nothing is wrong.

They don't even FAST anymore. The Romanian friend from Finland can probaly confrm whay I am saying.

Lord have mercy.
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Theoprovlitos
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« Reply #275 on: May 12, 2009, 02:12:31 PM »

Well Veniamin,

I cannot present more proofs in English that there are, unless I start... making up some.

Anyway lingusitic isolation of the Church of Finland has brought her here where she is now. Because if they were speaking English EVERYBODY would have access to their writings and fallacies a long time ago and my presence here wouldn't be necessary.

All you can do is pray for those who resist and who are scattered "for the fear of the Jews". The last stronghold is Valaam Monastery but they are threatening it with boycott.
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« Reply #276 on: May 12, 2009, 02:19:02 PM »

Do these make me more reliable?

I've run into this sort of thing a lot through my contacts with the some of the organisations you mentioned in Greece - an absolute love of using unsourced gossip.  Among informal settings, I was often subjected to this sort of thing "I heard x,y,z and I know it's true because so and so told me".  Very often x,y,z ended up being something completely ludicrous (that no Jews were killed on 9/11 since the Mossad warned them all to stay home).  The problem is that when these sorts of ideas are mixed in with legitimate Orthodox ideas, most people dismiss all of what is said.  

I've never been to Finland, but I do know some Russians who have - and the description about the Orthodox Church there has never been entirely positive.  So the accusations you make seem entirely plausible to me.  On the other hand, if you are going to publicly make them, you had better have very solid evidence.  In Western culture that means independent sources that corroborate your thesis.  If you can put together such a document that presents your case with solid sources, then it certainly would be an asset to the Church and I'd hope that action would be taken (either the Church in Finland be cleaned up, or excommunicated).  

Also, the bit about Masons is old news.  Even mentioning them as some sort of conspiratorial group makes any point you have to make laughable to most Western readers.      
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« Reply #277 on: May 12, 2009, 02:20:19 PM »

Well Veniamin,

I cannot present more proofs in English that there are, unless I start... making up some.

Anyway lingusitic isolation of the Church of Finland has brought her here where she is now. Because if they were speaking English EVERYBODY would have access to their writings and fallacies a long time ago and my presence here wouldn't be necessary.

All you can do is pray for those who resist and who are scattered "for the fear of the Jews". The last stronghold is Valaam Monastery but they are threatening it with boycott.

Then perhaps your wife and others who feel this is a serious issue would be willing to translate texts? 
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shep4569
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WWW
« Reply #278 on: May 12, 2009, 03:20:07 PM »

I'll cover a few things before I'm done with this topic, because it's exhausting. Is this what the early fathers went through in defending the chruch? Smiley

First, there's nothing wrong with homosexuals attending divine services. However they should be under the priest's spiritual direction. For example, there is a homosexual man in my parish, but he has devoted himself to a life of celibacy and receives counseling from our priest. He receives all the sacraments as a normal Orthodox Christian. I don't think he should be denied because he has an innate attraction to men. I don't think I could just up and stop being attracted to women. I don't think think it's kosher, though, to have practicing homosexual couples receiving the sacraments. If you're homosexual and embrace it, you obviously don't have a place in the church.

Second, just having clerics participating in a conference doesn't mean they accept what is going on. Honestly, I don't approve of it either, but it seems as though they are just presenting the Orthodox views on sexuality: "General secterary, Father Heikki Huttunen, Ecumenical Counsel of Finland, Orthodox church of Finland: Human sexuality in the Orthodox theology ". There's nothing wrong with presenting our views. It doesn't say "Fr. X of the OC will speak about the church's coming acceptance of homosexuality". Obviously that would be heretical.

Third, while I am deeply saddened to hear some of the things that may be going on in the Orthodox Church of Finland, I am tempered by the fact that the true church of Christ will always live on in her true faithful. As St. Paul says in 1 Cor. 11:18-19 "For, in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized." I understand that we must do our best to keep the church from going astray, but our bishops are supposed to bear the blunt of it as the leaders of their respective flocks. As yet, I haven't heard any bishops speak out against the Finnish church. Hopefully they will.

Last, am I a heretic for consorting with people of other faiths? I don't believe them, but they're my friends, and I coexist with them and pray for them just as a Christian should. For pete's sake, there are those in the church that would describe us as heretical because we no longer go by the Julian Calendar. How far do we go? Avoiding people of other beliefs isn't always the answer. You don't have to condone their beliefs. Should we stop consorting with Jews? After all, they did crucify our Savior....
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« Reply #279 on: May 12, 2009, 04:19:26 PM »

From someone who actually reads Finnish...

The Forum is organized as part of an European wide annual event. It seems to be Finland's turn. It is hosted by Arcus Group in co-operation with Yhteys Movement and Orthodox Rainbow Society. The Arcus and the Yhteys Movement are ecumenical movements focusing on LBGT issues.  The Orthodox Rainbow Society is specific to Orthodox people. All are independent organizations who have no official affiliations with the Orthodox Church in Finland. Father Heikki Huttunen who is the head of the Finnish Ecumenical Council seems to be also member of Yhteys, but he seems to be participating as a private individual. He lists his title as pastor, and does not use the title Father. On the list only one other person is listed as pastor. All the the other people seem to be lay people.

I checked for any metions on homosexuality on the Orthodox Church of Finalnd site and could not find anything that would differ from official Orthodox dogma. Certainly there is no mention either on the Ecumenical Council site or the Orthodox Church of Finland site of the Forum.

It seems to me that a group of Orthodox Finns feel differently about the teachings and are creating a movement around it and are forcing the church to talk about it.

This is of course quite different than saying that the Orthodox Church of Finland is organizing the Forum.

I have not been able to verify the program yet, even on the site of the organization hosting it.
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #280 on: May 12, 2009, 04:26:09 PM »

From someone who actually reads Finnish...

The Forum is organized as part of an European wide annual event. It seems to be Finland's turn. It is hosted by Arcus Group in co-operation with Yhteys Movement and Orthodox Rainbow Society. The Arcus and the Yhteys Movement are ecumenical movements focusing on LBGT issues.  The Orthodox Rainbow Society is specific to Orthodox people. All are independent organizations who have no official affiliations with the Orthodox Church in Finland. Father Heikki Huttunen who is the head of the Finnish Ecumenical Council seems to be also member of Yhteys, but he seems to be participating as a private individual. He lists his title as pastor, and does not use the title Father. On the list only one other person is listed as pastor. All the the other people seem to be lay people.

I checked for any metions on homosexuality on the Orthodox Church of Finalnd site and could not find anything that would differ from official Orthodox dogma. Certainly there is no mention either on the Ecumenical Council site or the Orthodox Church of Finland site of the Forum.

It seems to me that a group of Orthodox Finns feel differently about the teachings and are creating a movement around it and are forcing the church to talk about it.

This is of course quite different than saying that the Orthodox Church of Finland is organizing the Forum.

I have not been able to verify the program yet, even on the site of the organization hosting it.
Thank you for the information, Marjaana, and welcome to the forum. Grin
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Marjaana
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« Reply #281 on: May 12, 2009, 04:34:30 PM »


Link to the program

http://www.yhteys.org/EF2009programme.pdf

I haven't been able to find a more detailed program anywhere.

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Theoprovlitos
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« Reply #282 on: May 12, 2009, 06:08:42 PM »

Marjaana,

Your statements already show that you do not know the role of the Orthodox priest.

1. Are you saying that as a priest can leads a different life than as an individual? As a priest he serves divine Liturgy while as an individual he could even participate in satanistic ceremonies and there is no problem as long as he doesn't use the prefix Fr.?

2. Is he going to present the Orthodox views on homosexuality or what HE believes to be Orthodox and only him and the alike? Because from what we have been reading in Aamu Koitto his views are deeply heretical and they do not reflect not even Protestant theology but a new cult whcih exists only in Finland and no other church in the wold as far as I know

3. Is his lecture going to be of the same spirit as the statment of beliefs of he Ecumensit Organisation Yhteys which are deeply heretical or completely different?

4. Is he going to Repeat the statment that was published in AAmun Koitto that Christ was gay?

5. Is he going to particiapate in the conference to show them that they are in the wrong way or to tell them that he fully agrees with them and their work?

6. Is he cooperating with the woman pastoress who recently blessed a lesbian couple in the Lutheran Church?

7. Does the Finnish Orthodox church have a variety of services and Liturgies according to the taste of his faithful. E.g. Liturgy for Eurovision song contest fans, for blond ladies, Old men who use viagra, for those who like Spain as a holiday place etc?

8. Is the "Orthodox priest" from Southern Finland who is going to give a lecture about "Whether an Orthodox priest can love and live with another man" (according to the program) going to give a whole lecture just to say in the end NO HE CAN'T? Or is he going to say OF COURSE he can?

9. When you pray the Creed do you add Filioque or you don't in ecumensit prayers? Because in 2005 when the World Counsil of Churches organized a conference I was standing next to one of thos epriest adn noticed that he DID mention Filioque for the sake of unity.

That's only a couple of thoughts. There are much more than that.



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« Reply #283 on: May 12, 2009, 06:20:11 PM »

From someone who actually reads Finnish...

The Forum is organized as part of an European wide annual event. It seems to be Finland's turn. It is hosted by Arcus Group in co-operation with Yhteys Movement and Orthodox Rainbow Society. The Arcus and the Yhteys Movement are ecumenical movements focusing on LBGT issues.  The Orthodox Rainbow Society is specific to Orthodox people. All are independent organizations who have no official affiliations with the Orthodox Church in Finland. Father Heikki Huttunen who is the head of the Finnish Ecumenical Council seems to be also member of Yhteys, but he seems to be participating as a private individual. He lists his title as pastor, and does not use the title Father. On the list only one other person is listed as pastor. All the the other people seem to be lay people.

I checked for any metions on homosexuality on the Orthodox Church of Finalnd site and could not find anything that would differ from official Orthodox dogma. Certainly there is no mention either on the Ecumenical Council site or the Orthodox Church of Finland site of the Forum.

It seems to me that a group of Orthodox Finns feel differently about the teachings and are creating a movement around it and are forcing the church to talk about it.

This is of course quite different than saying that the Orthodox Church of Finland is organizing the Forum.

I have not been able to verify the program yet, even on the site of the organization hosting it.

Thank you for your voice of sanity.  I went through the same process and did not find any official connection at all with the Finnish Orthodox Church.

The title of this thread is very misleading.  I would appeal to the administraters  to add the word "alleged" to the title in the interests of fairness and respect to the Finnish Orthodox Church.

There is no evidence at all that the Finnish Orthodox Church has taken a publc stand that is out of conformity with the rest of the Orthodox comminion on this topic.
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Theoprovlitos
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« Reply #284 on: May 12, 2009, 06:35:11 PM »

Also

in Yhteys page on Bible on homosexuality

http://www.yhteys.org/raamattu_frame.html

the title "Ei Synti eika sairaus" does it mean indeed in Finnish that according to Yhteys Homosexuality is "Neither a Sin nor an Illness"


Do the following Orthodox Priests who are active members of Yhteys share this idea?


http://www.yhteys.org/ortodoksit_frame.html


Heikki Huttunen, pastori, Espoo (General Secretary of Ecumenical Counsel)
Jyrki Harkonen, toimittaja, Lohja (Theological Secretary of the Archbishop Leo)
Johannes Karhusaari, pastor, Helsinki (ex youth priest)
Tapani Karkkainen, Helsinki (till recently publisher of Orthodox magazines married to a man)
Juha Lampinen, deacon, Helsinki
Timo Lehmuskoski, priest, Helsinki
Markku Salminen, priest, Helsinki (Chief priest in the parish of Helsinki)

Do the above share the following ideas from Yhteys DISorganization, or they don;t have internet at hoem and they didn't know?

Joh. 16:12-13:ssa Vapahtaja toteaa: "Paljon enemmδnkin minulla olisi teille puhuttavaa, mutta te ette vielδ kykene ottamaan sitδ vastaan. Kun Totuuden Henki tulee, hδn johtaa teidδt tuntemaan koko totuuden." Pyhδ Henki johtaa kirkkoa tuntemaan totuuden myφs homoseksuaalisuudesta.

or in English

"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth" The Holy Spirit is leading the Church to get to know the truth also about homosexuality.

IS THE TRANSALTION CORRECT OR NO?

And does it mean -as far as I can understand- that for centuries the fathers of the desert in Egypt and in Syria, Patriarchs and ascetics, Greeks, Arabs and Slavs, Irish and Latins. elders and saInts, Church fathers and Holy people, for 2.000 years could not know because they were enlighted in many different serious dogmatic issues BUT ONE: HOMOSEXUALITY!

And now rejoice my brethren. A group of ecumenists from Finland in the year 2006 or so AT LAST, as  NEW PENTECOST where guided by the Holy Secret to discover the second more important thing after the Lost Ark: That homosexualtiy is not a Sin nor an Illness but something absolutely natural and acceptable and therefore from now one GOOD NEWS, we DOUBLED our chances to find the right spouse becasue we can freely look both among men and women to find Mr or Mrs right and the Church will bless us as the Nee Church Father of Northern Thebais suggest.

My God THIS IS BLASPHEMY TOWARDS THE HOLY SPIRIT!
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« Reply #285 on: May 12, 2009, 06:41:04 PM »

Orestis

Peopel who do not WANT to believe they selectively see what they WANT to see. You do not even speak Finnish adn you know nothing about the issue but yuo are easily claime that all the data which I present are "misleading".

Then in this case you belong to the same team who wants to make people SHUT UP  becuase they protest for teh grdual indrodcution of homosecyality in the church.

I left even more links above and waiting for answers. Though I suspect that I am rather going to get excuses and evasions
 Theoprovlitos,
More than 48 hours ago, you were given 48 hours to recant your accusations that those who have here questioned your sources are acting on a secret agenda to introduce Freemasonry and homosexuality into the Church and to apologize to those you accused.  You have not done so yet; in fact, you have done the exact opposite by continuing to make these accusations.  Therefore, you are receiving this formal warning for slanderous ad hominems against members of this forum.  If you continue to make such accusations, you will be placed on post moderation, which means that your posts will need to be approved by a moderator before they appear on the forum.  If you feel this warning is in error, feel free to use the private messaging system to appeal my decision to either cleveland or Veniamin.
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Theoprovlitos
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« Reply #286 on: May 12, 2009, 07:09:59 PM »

Ok Guyes here's more:

The Question About Homosexuals is Complicating Relationships Between the Orthodox in Russia and Finland

If I am "unreliable" who would dare name unreliable the MOSCOW PATRIARCHATE? The article publsihed here is from the Finnish Orthodox Rainbow Society and it is written by the current Theological Secreteray of Archbishop Leo. One can EASILY read between the lines that the Finnish Churches are DEEPLY problematic.

___________

Attitudes towards homosexuals is becoming the key issue of Orthodox church politics. The Russian media has presented the gay-liberal outlining of Finnish orthodox priests, which is strictly condemned by the Patriarchate of Moscow.

According to Russian sources, the visibly positive attitude towards homosexuality in the Finnish Orthodox circles might expedite the Patriarchate of Moscow to take the decision to establish a Russian diocese in Finland.

Russian portals ”religio” and ”portal-credo” have especially drawn attention to the statements of father Heikki Huttunen, the General Secretary of the Ecumenical Council of Finland and an orthodox priest. Huttunen is one of the Orthodox activists of Yhteys-liike (’connection’, ‘bond of unity’), a movement fighting against discrimination of homosexuals in Finnish society and churches and promoting the right of the employees of the churches for civil partnerships.


”Patriarchia”, the official internet portal of the Patriarchate of Moscow released a piece of news in July 2006, telling that neither the head of the Orthodox church in Finland, Archbishop Leo, is not ready to judge homosexuality like the Russian Orthodox church does.

In addition to this, the Patriarchate of Moscow mentioned by name those Finnish Orthodox priests who are involved in the activities of Yhteys-liike.

The attitude towards homosexuality in the Patriarchate of Moscow is absolute. The Holy Synod of Moscow cut off their relationships with the Lutheran Church of Sweden in December 2005, as the Swedish Church had decided to start giving blessing to same-sex unions.

Attitude towards homosexuals dispersing the Orthodox in Finland

Three Orthodox theologians are demanding Archbishop Leo to prohibit Orthodox priests from being involved in the activities of Yhteys-liike.
According to the letter of these theologians to Archbishop, the gay-sympathies of the priests are making members of the Orthodox Church in Finland consider moving to other ecclesiastic institutions.

The letter written by Hannu Pöyhönen, lecturer at Valamo Lay Academy, Markus Paavola and Heikki Alex Saulamo also threatens that if the leaders of the church do not demand that the priests dissociate immediately from the aims of Yhteys-liike, ”the conscience of the writers demands them to act in another way in this issue”.

Pöyhönen, Paavola and Saulamo are confirming that homosexuality is a question of church politics. According to them ”it is yet more justified to spread other Orthodox jurisdictions into Finland, if our local church does not hold to the Orthodox teaching”.

Looking forward to sexual-political statement

The question of the attitudes of the Orthodox people towards homosexuals was raised in January 2007 when the Orthodox magazine Aamun Koitto interviewed father Heikki Huttunen and father Timo Lehmuskoski.
In the interview Huttunen and Lehmuskoski encouraged the Orthodox people into open discussion about homosexuality, and to reconsider old interpretations about homosexuality, based on the fear of aberrance and anomaly.

Meanwhile Pöyhönen, Paavola and Saulamo are demanding the Orthodox council of bishops to make strictly condemning statement on homosexuality. They consider the statement of the council of bishops, made 8 years ago, to be inadequate. In that statement, given to the Finnish Parliament on behalf of the Orthodox church, the bishops give their support to the traditional family-institution but they do not condemn homosexuality.

© Jyrki Härkönen, March 2007 (The article of Jyrki Härkönen translated by Ortodoksinen Sateenkaariseura, 20.3.2007)

http://sateenkaariseura.wordpress.com/articles-from-other-sites/the-question-about-homosexuals-2032007/

CONCLUSIONS

1. Finnish Orthodox church is rottening and fallign apart anf a schism is ahead of us

2. Moscow Patriarchete is AWARE of the problem but the Finns ignore them because "those Russian guys know nothing"

3. Finnish Archbishop is FULLY aware of what is going on in his church and he lets it happen

4. Huttunen is an ACTIVE member of Yhteys and NOT a "visitor"

5. Huttunen is introducing civil gay marriages also among the ORTHODOX (in previous article in Aamun Koitto he also suggested eccelsiasticl blessing of such marriages)

6. Huttunen as the Secretary of Finnish Ecumensit Counsil is in communion with the Swedish LUTHERAN church that blesses Ecclesiastical gay marriages, since as a secretary he EQUALY represent the Lutheran Church

7. Those who protest are discribed as fundamentalist, fanatics, conservative (And I KNOW that they are aslo persecuted)

8. Aamun Koitto "Orthodox" has published scandalous and blasphemus ideas by Huttunen as we keep claiming and it is mentioned here.

9. Huttunen is promoting demonically the change of Orthodox dogmas and ethics as "based on the fear of aberrance and anomaly" in order to introduce homosexuality in the church.

DO YOU HAVE STILL DOUBTS? Enough for tonight. More tomorrow with Archbishop's statement in the Lutherna magazine Kotimaa.
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« Reply #287 on: May 12, 2009, 10:41:31 PM »

Ok Guyes here's more:

The Question About Homosexuals is Complicating Relationships Between the Orthodox in Russia and Finland

If I am "unreliable" who would dare name unreliable the MOSCOW PATRIARCHATE? The article publsihed here is from the Finnish Orthodox Rainbow Society and it is written by the current Theological Secreteray of Archbishop Leo. One can EASILY read between the lines that the Finnish Churches are DEEPLY problematic.

...

© Jyrki Härkönen, March 2007 (The article of Jyrki Härkönen translated by Ortodoksinen Sateenkaariseura, 20.3.2007)

http://sateenkaariseura.wordpress.com/articles-from-other-sites/the-question-about-homosexuals-2032007/
This Jyrki Härkönen appears to be more important an individual in the Finnish Orthodox Church than for me to trust solely to an article copied into someone else's blog and attributed to him.  If he's so important and widely known in Finland, I'm sure you can find some more authoritative source of news on him or a more credible online medium for his public communications.

DO YOU HAVE STILL DOUBTS?
Yes, I still have doubts about these sources you provide as authoritative.  Since anyone can say anything about any individual in a blog and offer it up to the internet as absolute truth, I don't trust in blogs as online evidence for anything.  Stop linking us to blog entries, then, and link us only to official news sources and documents on the official web sites of recognizable organizations, and I think what you want to share with us will appear a lot more believable.
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Theoprovlitos
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« Reply #288 on: May 13, 2009, 02:15:02 AM »

Listen Peterthe Aleut

There is REAAALY somenthing worng with you. If you are gay, it is better to admit it and we can openly disucss on a different basis that pretending not seeing things which are obviously there, questining my credibility, and when I publish DOZENS of various links from differnet sources, even OFFICIAL ones you ar doubting the sources. As if Yhteys OFFICIAL site with Harkonen's name is not enough.

Thank God the Russian Patriarchate who reseives the same information transalted in Russian as well as the Bureau of the Foreign Affaris of the Church of Greece do not behave like you.

The reason of your presence here is obvsiouly to cover up things and distort the truth.

First you question whether I am reliable.

Then I presnt you a document where Harkonen himslef is describing the situation and you are questioning if the link of Sateenkaariseura is valid and if Harkonen supports them which is MORE than obvious that he does from other sites. And you suggests that some dark powers have made a HUGE comspiracy "setting up fake websites", "putting people's names in official sites without knowing it", "creating fake conferences", "putting in people's mouths things which they haven't said", "hackers changing official sites" and so on.

But because you wander if Orthodox Rainbow Society (which by the way is created by Jyrki Harkonen himself, Tapani Karkainen, -the "Orthodox" married to a man publisher who runs the headquarters of the gay propaganda a the once-uopon-a-time orthodox magazine Aamun Koitto where he openly suggest ecclesiastical marriage of gay couples and that Christ was gay- and Simo Haavisto, a worker of the Diocese of Helsinki (and a good friend of mine which unfortunately was ruined by the gay mafia) who repeated in his interview the quote: "Jesus himself said nothing against homosexuality and therefrore it is not a sin") here is the link published at the gay web site with Harkonen's text from his PERSONAL web library

THE TEXT: http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/harkojyr/artikkelit/homoseksuaalisuus_hiertaa_suomen_ja_venajan_suhteita.html

HIS HOME WEB PAGE:
http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/harkojyr/index.htm

AN INTRODUCTION IN ENGLISH
http://kotisivu.dnainternet.net/harkojyr/in_english.htm

So Ta daaaa!
My link was more than valid and nobody "put to Harkonen's mouth things which he didn't say".

Unless, UNLESS...
oH my GOD! Someone ELSE pretends to be Harkonen's REPLICA on the web, and he has created a false Identity and he is writing even articles and news just to EXPOSE HIM.

How come I haven't thought of that before!
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« Reply #289 on: May 13, 2009, 04:15:14 AM »

And you suggests that some dark powers have made a HUGE comspiracy "setting up fake websites", "putting people's names in official sites without knowing it", "creating fake conferences", "putting in people's mouths things which they haven't said", "hackers changing official sites" and so on.

I don't recall anyone making those arguments. I know it must be difficult, but don't create things out of thin air, strawman.

Also, since the "Orthodox Rainbow Society" is not a church-sanctioned group and is obviously sinful, you can't charge it's actions against the Finnish church as a whole. That would be presumptuous. As far as I can see, none of this has hierarchical involvement or sanction, apart from +Ambrosius' name being removed from the page, and we don't know the reason.
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« Reply #290 on: May 13, 2009, 04:38:41 AM »

For my part, even more disturbing than the increasing tolerance of homosexual relationships, which is not yet fully implemented, is the Church of Finland's open communion. Every Sunday in Uspensky you can see tourists going up and being given the Eucharist, some of whom aren't even Christian (I spoke to one such tourist once after the service, who turned out to be happily Hindu). Isn't the Lord's Body and Blood to be guarded with severity?

What? Is this true?
No, it's not. I don't know what is going on in Uspensky but in my parish it is regulargy said before pre-communion prayers in Liturgy that the Eucharist is reserved for those Orthodox Christians who have prepared for it.
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« Reply #291 on: May 13, 2009, 05:17:58 AM »

shep4569

Please read form the start Peter the Aleuts comments and constant accusations that I am presenting fake links and proof and that I am not trustworthy and you will understand what I mean.

I am sure you DO understand that whan can leave hints on the air about someone without really naming things by word.

Also please, PLEASE do not drive me crazy. A couple of post above I posted the names of IMPORTANT priests and Laymen in the Orthodox Finnish church who OPENLY and PUBLICLY participate in those gay groups and who OBVIOULSY agree with the heresies which I just presented above. Please before making comment read CAREFULLY all the elements which I present before driving into conclusions.

We are talking about the Theological Secretery of the Finnish Archbishop (in other words the person who is in charge of dogmatic issues in the Church of Finland) a) Writing Hereticl views b) Reproducing Protestant heretical views c) Be OPENLY an ACTIVE member of the sinful cult groups you just admited.

And we are talking in another forum for days whether a drunken bishop who grabbed a woman's breast in a casino should lose his position or even get excommunicated and here we have Orthodox bishops and priests caliming that it is ok with men EVEN PRIESTS touching whatever you may think of and it is OK?

Are we all gone crazy?
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« Reply #292 on: May 13, 2009, 05:33:43 AM »

Alpo is your parish located in Helsinki? Is it in Espoo or other town or diocese?

Do they teach you to fast a bit before Communion? Because in some parishes people are having breakfast and then they go to the Liturgy and receive.

It definetly is question of the priest. However looking things since the last 13 years ago ecumenism has been proven CATASTROPHIC for the Orthodox Church because all these heretical ideas, and views have been gradually introduced into orthodoxy from the collasping protestant Church.

For the sake of ecumenism and New Age "love" they have been fradually accepting those protestant ideas as well as immorality from the society and the world. Tell me please have you EVER heard ANY speach at least in Helsinki Uspensky or in a youth group a teaching why getting DRUNK is sinful and does not match the Orthodox lifestyle? No wander if you didn't because EVERY time youth grousp from Finland come to Greece their pilgrimage includes a GET-DRUNK party till you can hardy walk even at 06 p.m. in the evening.

And I wasn't told about that , I saw it with my own esys when I was asked to arrange the program of a Finnish youth group when they visited Greece. They went to a cafeteria to "watch a sports event" escorted by the priests Fr Heikki Huttunen and Andreas Larikka, myslef and the Estonian Orthodox Margus Kivi from Tallinn. The kids by 06:00 p.m. were all drunk! Even Margus freaked out and was embarrassed with the soectacle of the Finnish Orthodox Christian Youth!

I wander what their spiritual fathers are teaching them! Obviously according to them EVERYTHING is allowed as long as you are "a good person" according to the New Age ethics, and definitely not according to Orthodox or even Roman Catholic.
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« Reply #293 on: May 13, 2009, 06:16:41 AM »

Alpo is your parish located in Helsinki? Is it in Espoo or other town or diocese?
It's located in the diocese of Karelia. I used to live in Helsinki couple of years ago but I attended services in Uspensky only occasionally back then and didn't know personally any actual members of the parish.

Quote
Do they teach you to fast a bit before Communion?
I'm a bit wrong person to ask for these kind of questions. I've got most of my information about Orthodoxy from books, internet and of course by participating services but I know quite a little about how people are normally catechised etc. All I know that I was aware that the Orthodox Eucharist is reserved only for Orthodox Christians who have fasted and perhaps confessed before communing long before I became a catechumen.
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« Reply #294 on: May 13, 2009, 09:49:23 AM »

Never mind!
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« Reply #295 on: May 13, 2009, 09:55:31 AM »

Listen Peterthe Aleut

There is REAAALY somenthing worng with you. If you are gay, it is better to admit it and we can openly disucss on a different basis that pretending not seeing things which are obviously there, questining my credibility...The reason of your presence here is obvsiouly to cover up things and distort the truth...
Uh.....you are really flinging some ridiculous insults. Let me use your logic for a moment....are you a homophobe?
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« Reply #296 on: May 13, 2009, 10:16:21 AM »

Alpo

There are of course priests in Finland who keep traditional Orthodoxy. They are just afraid or too weak to shout.

However I want to make clear that what I am writing here are not dogmatic problems of Orthodoxy, but on the contrary they are problems of the Protestant chrches which since they rejected the church traditions and dogmas they are TOO weak anymore to confront the heretical people who appeared through the ages. This phenomenon in Finland gives us an idea what has been happening again and again when various deluded people thought they "could save the world" and that ALL others were wrong or missing something and all of a sudden it was THEM that the "Holy Sprit" showed them the truth.
In reality heresy comes from PRIDE and lack of humility of the heretic. The fact that those "Orthodox" priests are talking in a negative way for ALL other churches (conservative, fundamentalist, anti-liberal etc) while they have the delusion that "the Holy Spirit is revealing to them the truth about homosexuality" -as I posted earlier from one of their links- shows that something is wrong with them.

Actually I know what is wrong. One rotten apple is enough so that little by little the whole basket is rottening.

These ideas were intorduced to the Finnish Orthodox Church from Protestants through ecumenism. Trying to find a "common ground" this can only happen by leaving orthodox dogmas behind and introduce foreign dogmas and fallacies, a bit or the Evangelical, a bit of the Roamn catholic, a bit of the pentecostals and this mixture of dogmas is called "Unification of the Church".

I am married to a exprotestant Finn and we have so many friends and relatives there. SO it is not question of talking and living with them on a INDIVIDUAL base. But as  a CHURCH the only thing that can happen is CATASTROPHY. It is better to believe that the Filioque of the Latins is right than to believe that it is both right and wrong. This practically means " I really don't know what to believe and whether I am right or wrong".

I must say that the large number of converts in the Finnish church which has been catechised by other converts who in reality NEVER abandoned their protestant mindset and worldview. And among them some SPECIFIC ones even thought that they are going to teach the Russians the Greeks the Serbs or the Arabs what Orthodoxy REALLY is becasue we didn't know so far! They are those that the gospel calls wolves in disguise as ship! And they entered the church in order to ruin her FROM the INSIDE.

However no matter what problems Orthodoxy faces this IS the church and look no more. Howeer you need proper catechism adn I cannot know whether your priest is among the good ones.
Some practical things you can do is

1. Try to find a priest who is traditional

2. Visit often Valamo monastery. They have some traditional or I should say ORTHODOX people there and the climate is healthier.

3. Come to Mt Athos as often as you can as wellas to other monasteries

4. Visit Russia and Russian Monasteries which are next door

5. If you can, visit other Orthodox countries as well, to see that I am not just a "Greek fundamentalist".

6. Try to avoid those evolutionist and spiritually corrupted orthodox people because you are going to become just one of them

7. NEVER look back at the Protestant Churches. As they are nowadays the cannot even called "Churches" but clubs of people who THINK they are Christian but they are far from being
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« Reply #297 on: May 13, 2009, 10:25:09 AM »

PoorFoolNicholas

No, I am a HERETOPHOBE.

That's what I said: If he WAS a gay then we could have a better discussion. Because he is doesn't say HIS views, but hidden behind his anonymity he is constantly attacking me by calling me a fraud. And this is even worse because so far the supporters of the Finnish ecumensit heretical gay mafia haven't said ONE word or a theological argument. They are only targeting at me, my credibility and the credibility of my sources becasue I am spoiling their soup which they named "Orthodox ethics".
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« Reply #298 on: May 13, 2009, 10:35:02 AM »

PoorFoolNicholas

No, I am a HERETOPHOBE
That's what I said: If he WAS a gay then we could have a better discussion. Because he is doesn't say HIS views, but hidden behind his anonymity he is constantly attacking me by calling me a fraud. And this is even worse because so far the supporters of the Finnish ecumensit heretical gay mafia haven't said ONE word or a theological argument. They are only targeting at me, my credibility and the credibility of my sources becasue I am spoiling their soup which they named "Orthodox ethics".
Have you ever written for JesusisSaviour.com? Why is it that when someone disagrees with you, suddenly this grand conspiracy just happens to unfold? Maybe you could provide something that you don't have to translate for us. You certainly can realize why we don't trust your conclusions. But to accuse someone that disagrees of being, OR possibly being a homosexual, is ridiculous. I posit that once no one cares about your "pet" theories anymore, we will never hear from you again. You certainly fit the mold of conspiritorial cranks that pop up on this forum from time to time. And please stop referring to those of a homosexual persuasion as "a gay". It is offensive, and uncharitable. You lose even more credibility when you use coarse speech such as this.
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« Reply #299 on: May 13, 2009, 11:54:20 AM »

And becasue we can't know who you are and what is your role in this forum, you have to proof now to me and to others that you do NOT belong to that environment of those rotten OCA bishops and therefore this is the reason why you defend with so much zeal those Finnish bishops who organize open homosexual meetings in their diocese.

If you can't proof it then I can assume whatever I want. Now YOU have to proof which are your morivations for supporting homosexuality and freemasonry.

Then in this case you belong to the same team who wants to make people SHUT UP  becuase they protest for teh grdual indrodcution of homosecyality in the church.
Theoprovlitos,

You have more than twice now alleged that those who question your credibility and your sources are in league to shut you up because they support Freemasonry and the introduction of homosexuality into the Church.  I'm not aware that anyone whom you have accused has ever admitted to any such motive.  So you have 48 hours to either publicly recant your slanderous accusations and apologize to those you have accused or face the consequences of slandering members of this forum (i.e., formal warning/post moderation).

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« Reply #300 on: May 13, 2009, 12:04:45 PM »

I doubt you'll get any apologies from this one. Nicholasdamus strikes again!
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« Reply #301 on: May 13, 2009, 04:34:04 PM »


Have you ever written for JesusisSaviour.com? Why is it that when someone disagrees with you, suddenly this grand conspiracy just happens to unfold? Maybe you could provide something that you don't have to translate for us. You certainly can realize why we don't trust your conclusions. But to accuse someone that disagrees of being, OR possibly being a homosexual, is ridiculous. I posit that once no one cares about your "pet" theories anymore, we will never hear from you again. You certainly fit the mold of conspiritorial cranks that pop up on this forum from time to time. And please stop referring to those of a homosexual persuasion as "a gay". It is offensive, and uncharitable. You lose even more credibility when you use coarse speech such as this.

Nicholas are you kidding me? I have PRESENTED several links, official links in English and some people SYSTEMATICLY rejected for reasosn that are beyond reason and logic.

Then I was right to believe -according to your words- that this forum is some kind of inquisition. You just wrote "translate to US" and "WE don't trust your conclusions". Who is that "US" you are referring to. Some court? Some specific group? Some Cult? Who is that "WE" thst you mention that I have to proof my credibility to. Cause it CERTAINLY not the readers of this forum because several responded in apositive way, especially that guy who LIVES in Helsinki and confirmed the truth of my words. But to "YOU" his testimony is aslo not trust worthy, not the opinion of other readers here, nor the links, not photos, not publications".
Well I am telling "YOU" thhat you have finally managed to make this forum as well as Orthodoxchristianity.net UNRELIABLE and UNTRUSTWORTHY, because "YOU" attack whoever is presenting here some facts.

I do not know who runs this place or is it abandoned to Orthodox Ninjas who attack people in an ORCHASTRATED way if they don't like what people say.

I would also give an advice to any of you people who are not orthodox but zealously pretend to be that please, DON'T become orthodox. Go to another, more totalitarian church that suits better the atmosphere in here  and that knoes all the technics of mind control and manipulation of free though and speach. "YOU" are still beginners but in a church like "Jehova's witnesses" you would do A LOT BETTER, cause you would only have to read the "Watchtower"  and the most important of all: It would be in ENGLISH!

PS. Am I calling homosexuals as "gay" or are they calling themselves as "gay" to make it even sound as a positive thing to be or to become?
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« Reply #302 on: May 14, 2009, 09:16:14 AM »

Nicholas are you kidding me? I have PRESENTED several links, official links in English and some people SYSTEMATICLY rejected for reasosn that are beyond reason and logic.

Then I was right to believe -according to your words- that this forum is some kind of inquisition. You just wrote "translate to US" and "WE don't trust your conclusions". Who is that "US" you are referring to. Some court? Some specific group? Some Cult? Who is that "WE" thst you mention that I have to proof my credibility to. Cause it CERTAINLY not the readers of this forum because several responded in apositive way, especially that guy who LIVES in Helsinki and confirmed the truth of my words. But to "YOU" his testimony is aslo not trust worthy, not the opinion of other readers here, nor the links, not photos, not publications".
Well I am telling "YOU" thhat you have finally managed to make this forum as well as Orthodoxchristianity.net UNRELIABLE and UNTRUSTWORTHY, because "YOU" attack whoever is presenting here some facts.

I do not know who runs this place or is it abandoned to Orthodox Ninjas who attack people in an ORCHASTRATED way if they don't like what people say.

I would also give an advice to any of you people who are not orthodox but zealously pretend to be that please, DON'T become orthodox. Go to another, more totalitarian church that suits better the atmosphere in here  and that knoes all the technics of mind control and manipulation of free though and speach. "YOU" are still beginners but in a church like "Jehova's witnesses" you would do A LOT BETTER, cause you would only have to read the "Watchtower"  and the most important of all: It would be in ENGLISH!

PS. Am I calling homosexuals as "gay" or are they calling themselves as "gay" to make it even sound as a positive thing to be or to become?
You are right. I am the leader of the OCNET resistance. "Facts" have yet to be presented. Your blog isn't fact, it is opinion. I can start a blog saying that my Metropolitan is an Alien from (136472) Makemake, but that doesn't make it a fact. Blogs are not seen as authoritative. We are primarily English speakers on this site, yet you keep giving us info in another language. That is not our fault. We cannot read the info for ourselves and make a logical, and intelligent decision about the subject you are referring to. I also don't see this Grand Orchestration that you speak of. You tend to get a lot of flack on here because of your methods, not your topic for discussion.
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« Reply #303 on: May 14, 2009, 09:44:50 AM »

Can I be a little uncourteous and ask why other people's sinful laundry are being aired publicaly?

Should we not in an act of Orthodox love hide our fellow brethren's trespasses and pray to God to give them enlightenment? If anything, if it is a serious problem ... one should go direct to their hierarchies with the proper ecclesiastical formalities and if as a response we do not achieve what we hoped in an act of obedience ..... stop there and continue in prayer to God.


What good does publicising others sins do other than to bring shame, gossip and evil into the equation?

Our ends do not justify our means ... I was reading Saint Silouan where Arch. Sophrony mentions that the Saint would say (something along the lines of) if good is not employed to achieve good then the end result is not truly good ...

God Bless.
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« Reply #304 on: May 14, 2009, 11:32:54 AM »

soufliotiki, airing these problems publicly can get hierarchs of other Orthodox bodies like the Russian Orthodox Church to voice their dismay, which has often been a powerful tool in suppressing modernist innovations. Individual national churches might go in all sorts of weird directions were they not kept in check by their Orthodox brethren elsewhere.
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« Reply #305 on: May 14, 2009, 11:38:11 AM »

soufliotiki, airing these problems publicly can get hierarchs of other Orthodox bodies like the Russian Orthodox Church to voice their dismay, which has often been a powerful tool in suppressing modernist innovations. Individual national churches might go in all sorts of weird directions were they not kept in check by their Orthodox brethren elsewhere.
When the facts are clearly, and definitively presented for all to see, and understand. Which has NOT happened yet.
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« Reply #306 on: May 14, 2009, 11:42:04 AM »

Quote
When the facts are clearly, and definitively presented for all to see, and understand. Which has NOT happened yet.

I'm satisfied that they have already been presented well enough to attract the attention of our neighbours. I'm happy with that. If a few people on a message board don't get the very real problems here, then I'm not going to worry about it.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 11:43:50 AM by CRCulver » Logged
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« Reply #307 on: May 14, 2009, 11:46:31 AM »

Quote
When the facts are clearly, and definitively presented for all to see, and understand. Which has NOT happened yet.

I'm satisfied that they have already been presented well enough to attract the attention of our neighbours. I'm happy with that. If a few people on a message board don't get the very real problems here, then I'm not going to worry about it.
Yes the many Patriarchates are watching OCNET avidly waiting for dirt on other jurisdictions. Come on! Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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« Reply #308 on: May 14, 2009, 02:23:03 PM »

Yes the many Patriarchates are watching OCNET avidly waiting for dirt on other jurisdictions. Come on! Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Well, the Russian Orthodox Church, for example, is getting its information on the Church of Finland's dangerous behaviour from somewhere. Of course no one with any authority is reading OC.net, but drumming up awareness internationally is always good and eventually word of mouth will bring these complaints to the ears of someone.
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« Reply #309 on: May 14, 2009, 02:48:18 PM »

Well, the Russian Orthodox Church, for example, is getting its information on the Church of Finland's dangerous behaviour from somewhere.

My dear brother,

You are right.  Here is a statement from the priest who heads the Secretariat for Inter-Orthodox Relations of ROCOR.

"When this Finnish aberration was discovered, the Secretariat for
Inter-Orthodox Relations of the ROCOR sent a formal note expressing
deep concern about this issue to the Department of External Relations
of the Moscow Patriarchate.

"A response was received, informing us that the MP had already been
informed of the Finnish situation by the local MP priest there, and
that an appropriate measures would be taken.

"(Of course, the Orthodox Church of Finland is an autonomous
Archbishopric under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate,
so that neither the Moscow Patriarchate nor ROCOR have any authority
over it).

"... Both the ROCOR and the MP have taken note of the situation with
regards to this "Rainbow" Conference in Finland, and are in communication
as to how to condemn it in the strongest possible way.


"With love in Christ,
"Prot. Alexander Lebedeff"
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« Reply #310 on: May 14, 2009, 04:49:05 PM »

Theoprovlitos,

Thank you for your very enlightening, yet disturbing post.  I did a quick search on this issue and found an interesting article from an interesting site:  http://www.rainbowchristians.com/articles/entry/Homosexuality-issue-Complicating-Relationships-Between-the-Orthodox-in-Russia-and-Finland

The only caution I would add is not to jump to the conclusion that if someone has a hard time digesting that an Orthodox church is accepting of the perversion of homosexuality, that they themselves struggle with it.  It may be for example age:  many of those over about sixty have a hard time believing that an O. Church would begin to tolerate sodomy.  But remember that the O. Church in Finland is small, and it is a State church (along with the "Lutheran church" there).  Therefore the O. Church in Finland has the choice:  either accept the tolerant agenda of liberal Scandanavia, or suffer persecution for the sake of Christ.  For whoever loves Christ keeps His commandments.
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« Reply #311 on: May 14, 2009, 06:17:41 PM »

Of course no one with any authority is reading OC.net,
You'd be surprised at who DOES read OC.net. Wink
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« Reply #312 on: May 15, 2009, 10:56:47 AM »


• 21.00-Orthodox vesper, supper, saunas

 Shocked

Better than the sacristry as happens elsewhere.   Roll Eyes

Saunas are a normal part of Finish culture.  They are also a regular part of Russian culture.  Of course each time I went to the sauna (баня in Russian) it was a massive orgy of gay sex, so maybe you have a point.  Of course, you wouldn't want to take into account not imposing American cultural norms on a situation before making a snap judgement.  

Just visit the Finnish Orthodox Monastery of New Valamo and you will find a sauna right by the lake.  It is a part of their culture and nothing evil.
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« Reply #313 on: May 15, 2009, 11:12:30 AM »


However I want to make clear that what I am writing here are not dogmatic problems of Orthodoxy, but on the contrary they are problems of the Protestant chrches which since they rejected the church traditions and dogmas they are TOO weak anymore to confront the heretical people who appeared through the ages. This phenomenon in Finland gives us an idea what has been happening again and again when various deluded people thought they "could save the world" and that ALL others were wrong or missing something and all of a sudden it was THEM that the "Holy Sprit" showed them the truth.
I am married to a exprotestant Finn and we have so many friends and relatives there. SO it is not question of talking and living with them on a INDIVIDUAL base. But as  a CHURCH the only thing that can happen is CATASTROPHY.

These statements may provide some insight: the Lutheran Church in Finland recently had a group of its fundamentalists leave and register an alternative Lutheran Church.

Secondly, the Lutherans in Finland still have sour grapes over the fact that that Archbishop Ambrosius of the Finnish Orthodox Church left the Lutheran Church to convert to Orthodoxy.  He is a very personable man, a gifted linguist and and well educated with graduate degrees in both theology and political science.

I met him at the University of Toronto a number of years ago when he was the keynote speaker at a Conferece "Orthodoxy in Finland" organized by the Finnish Studies Department of the University of Toronto.  The conference attracted people interested in Finnish Studies plus a large group of people who were of the Orthodox faith and interested in Orthodoxy.  One of the university professors told me that the Lutherans in Finland were very upset about Archbishop Ambrosius converting to Orthodoxy and the romours had spread that he was homosexual and that the monastery "New Valamo" was filled with homosexuals.  I myself doubt that there is any truth to the rumours about the monastery or Archbishop Ambrosius whom I thought was a very sincere and spiritual man.
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« Reply #314 on: May 15, 2009, 12:51:56 PM »


However I want to make clear that what I am writing here are not dogmatic problems of Orthodoxy, but on the contrary they are problems of the Protestant chrches which since they rejected the church traditions and dogmas they are TOO weak anymore to confront the heretical people who appeared through the ages. This phenomenon in Finland gives us an idea what has been happening again and again when various deluded people thought they "could save the world" and that ALL others were wrong or missing something and all of a sudden it was THEM that the "Holy Sprit" showed them the truth.
I am married to a exprotestant Finn and we have so many friends and relatives there. SO it is not question of talking and living with them on a INDIVIDUAL base. But as  a CHURCH the only thing that can happen is CATASTROPHY.

These statements may provide some insight: the Lutheran Church in Finland recently had a group of its fundamentalists leave and register an alternative Lutheran Church.

Secondly, the Lutherans in Finland still have sour grapes over the fact that that Archbishop Ambrosius of the Finnish Orthodox Church left the Lutheran Church to convert to Orthodoxy.  He is a very personable man, a gifted linguist and and well educated with graduate degrees in both theology and political science.

I met him at the University of Toronto a number of years ago when he was the keynote speaker at a Conferece "Orthodoxy in Finland" organized by the Finnish Studies Department of the University of Toronto.  The conference attracted people interested in Finnish Studies plus a large group of people who were of the Orthodox faith and interested in Orthodoxy.  One of the university professors told me that the Lutherans in Finland were very upset about Archbishop Ambrosius converting to Orthodoxy and the romours had spread that he was homosexual and that the monastery "New Valamo" was filled with homosexuals.  I myself doubt that there is any truth to the rumours about the monastery or Archbishop Ambrosius whom I thought was a very sincere and spiritual man.

Thanks, that does explain a lot.
If any of what Theoprovlitosthis claims were true, I really think the Ecumenical Patriarchate would step it.  Afterall the Finnish Orthodox Church is under the EP.  I suspect Theoprovlitosthis may have already contacted the EP and the EP found his claims unsubstantiated.  So he is turning to the internet to discredit the Finns.

From "googling" Father Heikki Huttunen, I see that he has been very active as the representative of the Finnish Orthodox Church since the early 1990's in ecumenical dialogue with various churches.  His works that are on the intenet follow the traditional Orthodox view.  Theoprovlitos seems to object to any ecumenical activity at all.  I think this adds to his distrust of Fr. Heikki Huttunen.  The EP as well as the MP, and other Orthodox churches are are involved in ecumenical dialogue.  WE must follow the command of Christ "That all may be one."  This is an important mission and witness for the Orthodox Church.
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