Author Topic: Is the Eucharist an Atoning Sacrifice from the Orthodox POV Like in RCism?  (Read 998 times)

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Offline Severian

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Offline Severian

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Re: Is the Eucharist an Atoning Sacrifice from the Orthodox POV Like in RCism?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2012, 06:36:33 AM »
Yes, it is. I guess if anyone wants to provide some sources regarding the issue, they can. :)
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

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Offline Alpo

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Re: Is the Eucharist an Atoning Sacrifice from the Orthodox POV Like in RCism?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2012, 07:08:32 AM »
Is the Eucharist a Sacrifice? Yes.

Is the Eucharist an anoting sacrifice like in RCism? I'm not sure. The Catholic version seems a lot more developed than the Orthodox version so I'm not sure whether it's exactly the same.

Yes, it is. I guess if anyone wants to provide some sources regarding the issue, they can. :)

Canon of Sarum mass:

Therefore, most gracious Father, through Jesus Christ Thy Son our Lord, we humbly beseech Thee and we desire that Thou accept and bless these gifts, these things Thou gavest us, these holy unspotted sacrifices, which we offer Thee, first, for Thy Holy Catholic Church...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 07:26:27 AM by Alpo »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Is the Eucharist an Atoning Sacrifice from the Orthodox POV Like in RCism?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2012, 07:35:13 AM »
Is the Eucharist a Sacrifice? Yes.

Is the Eucharist an anoting sacrifice like in RCism? I'm not sure. The Catholic version seems a lot more developed than the Orthodox version so I'm not sure whether it's exactly the same.

Yes, it is. I guess if anyone wants to provide some sources regarding the issue, they can. :)

Canon of Sarum mass:

Therefore, most gracious Father, through Jesus Christ Thy Son our Lord, we humbly beseech Thee and we desire that Thou accept and bless these gifts, these things Thou gavest us, these holy unspotted sacrifices, which we offer Thee, first, for Thy Holy Catholic Church...

The Catholics got their mass from us so it couldnt be more developed!  ;)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 07:36:19 AM by Cantor Krishnich »
Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner!

Offline Alpo

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Re: Is the Eucharist an Atoning Sacrifice from the Orthodox POV Like in RCism?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2012, 08:47:43 AM »
The Catholics got their mass from us so it couldnt be more developed!  ;)

The Canon I quoted was not Catholic but Orthodox. Also, I'm not sure whether RCs have developed their theology beyond just the text of the mass.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Is the Eucharist an Atoning Sacrifice from the Orthodox POV Like in RCism?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2012, 11:49:03 AM »
Atonement is reconciliation between God and human. Any sacrifice is an atonement.
If you will, you can become all flame.
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Is the Eucharist an Atoning Sacrifice from the Orthodox POV Like in RCism?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2012, 11:25:00 AM »
The Catholics got their mass from us so it couldnt be more developed!  ;)

The Canon I quoted was not Catholic but Orthodox. Also, I'm not sure whether RCs have developed their theology beyond just the text of the mass.

It's the Roman Canon (translated into English), which predates the Schism and we used up until about 1970 when a bunch of guys came up with a bunch of shorter ones containing the essential (for us) "This is my Body...This is my Blood" plus an explicit epiklesis, minus much mention of a sacrifice, trying to appease everyone else. That's a different topic altogether though...

In Catholic theological terms, the Eucharist is the unbloody re-presentation, maybe better yet anamnesis of the once for all sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross at Calvary. So not an atoning sacrifice, the Atoning Sacrifice.

In 1666 the Orthodox Old-Believers were supposedly anathemized in Moscow.  Coincidence?

Offline Wyatt

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Re: Is the Eucharist an Atoning Sacrifice from the Orthodox POV Like in RCism?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2012, 03:48:37 PM »
The Catholics got their mass from us so it couldnt be more developed!  ;)

The Canon I quoted was not Catholic but Orthodox. Also, I'm not sure whether RCs have developed their theology beyond just the text of the mass.

It's the Roman Canon (translated into English), which predates the Schism and we used up until about 1970 when a bunch of guys came up with a bunch of shorter ones containing the essential (for us) "This is my Body...This is my Blood" plus an explicit epiklesis, minus much mention of a sacrifice, trying to appease everyone else. That's a different topic altogether though...

In Catholic theological terms, the Eucharist is the unbloody re-presentation, maybe better yet anamnesis of the once for all sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross at Calvary. So not an atoning sacrifice, the Atoning Sacrifice.
Yep. The sacrifice of Calvary and the Eucharist are one and the same. Do the Eastern (and Oriental) Orthodox believe the same?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Is the Eucharist an Atoning Sacrifice from the Orthodox POV Like in RCism?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2012, 04:38:57 PM »
The Catholics got their mass from us so it couldnt be more developed!  ;)

The Canon I quoted was not Catholic but Orthodox. Also, I'm not sure whether RCs have developed their theology beyond just the text of the mass.

It's the Roman Canon (translated into English), which predates the Schism and we used up until about 1970 when a bunch of guys came up with a bunch of shorter ones containing the essential (for us) "This is my Body...This is my Blood" plus an explicit epiklesis, minus much mention of a sacrifice, trying to appease everyone else. That's a different topic altogether though...

In Catholic theological terms, the Eucharist is the unbloody re-presentation, maybe better yet anamnesis of the once for all sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ on the Cross at Calvary. So not an atoning sacrifice, the Atoning Sacrifice.
Yep. The sacrifice of Calvary and the Eucharist are one and the same. Do the Eastern (and Oriental) Orthodox believe the same?
Yes.
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