Author Topic: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism  (Read 3874 times)

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Offline Jetavan

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I should surely hope not! :o

VATICAN CITY -- The effort to reintegrate the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X into the Catholic church "absolutely does not mean" that the Catholic church will accept or support the anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic positions espoused by some members of the society, said Cardinal Kurt Koch.

The cardinal, president of the Pontifical Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews, said many Jews "fear that through the eventual reintegration of a series of priests and faithful with anti-Jewish tendencies and who fundamentally reject Nostra Aetate," the Second Vatican Council document on relations with Jews and with other religions, "the Catholic church could give a new direction to its dialogue with Judaism."
....
Nostra Aetate described Christians and Jews as having a common heritage and a profound spiritual bond; it denounced any form of contempt of the Jews; it said the Jews could not be held responsible for the death of Jesus; and "it explicitly highlighted the Jewish roots of Christianity," Koch said.
If you will, you can become all flame.
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In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2012, 09:12:55 PM »
I should surely hope not! :o

VATICAN CITY -- The effort to reintegrate the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X into the Catholic church "absolutely does not mean" that the Catholic church will accept or support the anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic positions espoused by some members of the society, said Cardinal Kurt Koch.

The cardinal, president of the Pontifical Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews, said many Jews "fear that through the eventual reintegration of a series of priests and faithful with anti-Jewish tendencies and who fundamentally reject Nostra Aetate," the Second Vatican Council document on relations with Jews and with other religions, "the Catholic church could give a new direction to its dialogue with Judaism."
....
Nostra Aetate described Christians and Jews as having a common heritage and a profound spiritual bond; it denounced any form of contempt of the Jews; it said the Jews could not be held responsible for the death of Jesus; and "it explicitly highlighted the Jewish roots of Christianity," Koch said.
Oh heavens no! Anything but that!.


Sure, whatever you say........."cardinal".  ::)
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2012, 09:21:56 PM »
These post Vatican II twits are pathetic, all the problems in the church today and they get their panties in a twist about possibly offending a few Judaics who can't stand them or Jesus to begin with. So typical.

What's next popes kissing Korans?

Oops. too late.

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2012, 11:31:47 PM »
What's wrong with anti-Judaism? Judaism is a Christian heresy. Christians are or at least should be anti-heresy.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 10:00:19 AM »
I should surely hope not! :o

It's true that traditionalists can be very intolerant. But one thing I've learned from some people on this forum (although I already knew it in principle) is that it's also possible to be quite intolerant without being traditional or conservative.
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Offline VarangianGuard

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 10:25:46 AM »
What's wrong with anti-Judaism? Judaism is a Christian heresy. Christians are or at least should be anti-heresy.

A Christian who isn't anti-Judaism, can hardly be said to be a Christian...If Christian, then against all heresies.
The problem today is of course that being anti-Judaism is equated by the zionists and their willing  collaborators to be anti-semitism.

This Cardinal is offering typical VaticanII-double speak. A Christian should by definition against Judaism, as he is against all heresies and false religions.
The RCC taught this all the way up to VaticanII.
Appparently, after VaticanII, the Roman Catholic church doesn't teach that any more. Now it is the opposite. One should NOT be anti-Judaism now.
Flip-flops worse than ever. No rebukes from the Pope either. (As if there ever would be any) That means this IS the current teaching of the RCC.
True Church anyone?

Offline Peter J

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 02:36:50 PM »
What's wrong with anti-Judaism? Judaism is a Christian heresy. Christians are or at least should be anti-heresy.

A Christian who isn't anti-Judaism, can hardly be said to be a Christian...If Christian, then against all heresies.
The problem today is of course that being anti-Judaism is equated by the zionists and their willing  collaborators to be anti-semitism.

This Cardinal is offering typical VaticanII-double speak.

Perhaps so; but you're certainly spin-doctoring by saying that we should be "anti-Judaism".

A Christian should by definition against Judaism, as he is against all heresies and false religions.
The RCC taught this all the way up to VaticanII.
Appparently, after VaticanII, the Roman Catholic church doesn't teach that any more. Now it is the opposite. One should NOT be anti-Judaism now.
Flip-flops worse than ever. No rebukes from the Pope either. (As if there ever would be any) That means this IS the current teaching of the RCC.
True Church anyone?

Do you realize your profile says "Roman-Catholic"?
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline VarangianGuard

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 04:11:12 PM »
What's wrong with anti-Judaism? Judaism is a Christian heresy. Christians are or at least should be anti-heresy.

A Christian who isn't anti-Judaism, can hardly be said to be a Christian...If Christian, then against all heresies.
The problem today is of course that being anti-Judaism is equated by the zionists and their willing  collaborators to be anti-semitism.

This Cardinal is offering typical VaticanII-double speak.

Perhaps so; but you're certainly spin-doctoring by saying that we should be "anti-Judaism".

A Christian should by definition against Judaism, as he is against all heresies and false religions.
The RCC taught this all the way up to VaticanII.
Appparently, after VaticanII, the Roman Catholic church doesn't teach that any more. Now it is the opposite. One should NOT be anti-Judaism now.
Flip-flops worse than ever. No rebukes from the Pope either. (As if there ever would be any) That means this IS the current teaching of the RCC.
True Church anyone?

Do you realize your profile says "Roman-Catholic"?

There is a reason I joined this forum, mate.
Doubts more severe then ever before.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 05:07:10 PM »
Do you realize your profile says "Roman-Catholic"?

There is a reason I joined this forum, mate.
Doubts more severe then ever before.

OIC.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 11:14:12 PM »
OK, now Abe Foxman cozy's up with the Koch over his expression of affirmation of Nostra Aetate.

You're in real good company there these days aren't you "cardinal".

ADL says "jump", Vatican says "how high?'.

How can these "men" at the Vatican even look themselves in the mirror these days and call themselves "christian".

One day they will be held accountable.


http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/6427_96.htm
ADL Praises Cardinal Koch's Reaffirmation(capitulation) Of Positive(submissive) Relations Between Catholics And Jews

"We commend(command) Cardinal Koch's sentiments on coping with crises collectively(covertly(for Judaics)) and resolving conflicts positively( there's that word again)," said Rabbi Eric J. Greenberg, ADL Interfaith Director.  We also respectfully urge( demand) that any potential rehabilitation( re-education) of the SSPX include the requirement(threat) that the Society publicly reject their decades of hatred (truth), and that as an expression of their affirmation of Nostra Aetate, be required to remove all anti-Semitic(truth-telling) rhetoric from both their online and print publications."

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Offline VarangianGuard

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2012, 06:25:18 AM »
OK, now Abe Foxman cozy's up with the Koch over his expression of affirmation of Nostra Aetate.

You're in real good company there these days aren't you "cardinal".

ADL says "jump", Vatican says "how high?'.

How can these "men" at the Vatican even look themselves in the mirror these days and call themselves "christian".

One day they will be held accountable.




http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/6427_96.htm
ADL Praises Cardinal Koch's Reaffirmation(capitulation) Of Positive(submissive) Relations Between Catholics And Jews

"We commend(command) Cardinal Koch's sentiments on coping with crises collectively(covertly(for Judaics)) and resolving conflicts positively( there's that word again)," said Rabbi Eric J. Greenberg, ADL Interfaith Director.  We also respectfully urge( demand) that any potential rehabilitation( re-education) of the SSPX include the requirement(threat) that the Society publicly reject their decades of hatred (truth), and that as an expression of their affirmation of Nostra Aetate, be required to remove all anti-Semitic(truth-telling) rhetoric from both their online and print publications."



It is embarrassing and quite revealing. At least 50 years of teachings which can't be reconciled with previous teachings and almost the whole visible structure taken over by the Modernists....
Aren't you starting to ask yourself if the church in which you have believed and to which you have given your fidelity, may not be true church?

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2012, 06:28:36 AM »
I don't like Bp. Williamson's extreme antisemitism, but the Vatican's political correctness is almost as bad.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2012, 06:32:23 AM »
I don't like Bp. Williamson's extreme antisemitism, but the Vatican's political correctness is almost as bad.

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Offline Peter J

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2012, 08:44:18 AM »
What's wrong with anti-Judaism? Judaism is a Christian heresy. Christians are or at least should be anti-heresy.

A Christian who isn't anti-Judaism, can hardly be said to be a Christian...If Christian, then against all heresies.
The problem today is of course that being anti-Judaism is equated by the zionists and their willing  collaborators to be anti-semitism.

This Cardinal is offering typical VaticanII-double speak.

Perhaps so; but you're certainly spin-doctoring by saying that we should be "anti-Judaism".

A Christian should by definition against Judaism, as he is against all heresies and false religions.
The RCC taught this all the way up to VaticanII.
Appparently, after VaticanII, the Roman Catholic church doesn't teach that any more. Now it is the opposite. One should NOT be anti-Judaism now.
Flip-flops worse than ever. No rebukes from the Pope either. (As if there ever would be any) That means this IS the current teaching of the RCC.
True Church anyone?

Do you realize your profile says "Roman-Catholic"?

There is a reason I joined this forum, mate.
Doubts more severe then ever before.

I have to ask: are you ever bothered by statements from Orthodox posters that reveal intolerance toward non-Orthodox Christians?
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Offline VarangianGuard

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 05:10:38 PM »
Peter,
No, not really. If it is just religious intolerance. If it is statements like or in the vicinity of  " you are Protestant and therefore you are an idiot" or "you are Catholic and no Catholics have spirituality and you are all a bunch of legalistic retards", I would be very bothered. That is to dishonour people.
If an Orthodox poster says " You are a member of a false religion", I would not be bothered, because if he is Orthodox, he must regard other Christian religions as false.

What about you?

Offline Papist

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 07:24:31 PM »
OK, now Abe Foxman cozy's up with the Koch over his expression of affirmation of Nostra Aetate.

You're in real good company there these days aren't you "cardinal".

ADL says "jump", Vatican says "how high?'.

How can these "men" at the Vatican even look themselves in the mirror these days and call themselves "christian".

One day they will be held accountable.




http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/6427_96.htm
ADL Praises Cardinal Koch's Reaffirmation(capitulation) Of Positive(submissive) Relations Between Catholics And Jews

"We commend(command) Cardinal Koch's sentiments on coping with crises collectively(covertly(for Judaics)) and resolving conflicts positively( there's that word again)," said Rabbi Eric J. Greenberg, ADL Interfaith Director.  We also respectfully urge( demand) that any potential rehabilitation( re-education) of the SSPX include the requirement(threat) that the Society publicly reject their decades of hatred (truth), and that as an expression of their affirmation of Nostra Aetate, be required to remove all anti-Semitic(truth-telling) rhetoric from both their online and print publications."



It is embarrassing and quite revealing. At least 50 years of teachings which can't be reconciled with previous teachings and almost the whole visible structure taken over by the Modernists....
Aren't you starting to ask yourself if the church in which you have believed and to which you have given your fidelity, may not be true church?

Speaking of tradition, you do know that the Orthodox Church allows its members to use artificial birth control right?
My posts no longer forum here.

Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 09:53:19 PM »
Where is the ecclesiastical approbation for use of birth control to be found? I have not read that text and I am not so sure it even exists.

On another note, what did Bp. Williamson say or write which is excessively anti-Semitic? I haven't heard anyone say what that thing is.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 09:55:00 PM by Fr.Aidan »

Offline mike

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2012, 09:58:29 PM »
Where is the ecclesiastical approbation for use of birth control to be found? I have not read that text and I am not so sure it even exists.

Synodal Affirmations on Marriage, Family, Sexuality, and the Sanctity of Life

Bases of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church
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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2012, 10:18:45 PM »
Neither of those documents bestows any overt approval to contraception.

Offline mike

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2012, 10:24:58 PM »
Quote from the first one:

Quote
Married couples may express their love in sexual union without always intending the conception of a child, but only those means of controlling conception within marriage are acceptable which do not harm a fetus already conceived.

and from the econd one:

Quote
Some contraceptives have an abortive effect, interrupting artificially the life of the embryo on the very first stages of his life. Therefore, the same judgements are applicable to the use of them as to abortion. But other means, which do not involve interrupting an already conceived life, cannot be equated with abortion in the least. In defining their attitude to the non-abortive contraceptives, Christian spouses should remember that human reproduction is one of the principal purposes of the divinely established marital union (see, X. 4). The deliberate refusal of childbirth on egoistic grounds devalues marriage and is a definite sin.

At the same time, spouses are responsible before God for the comprehensive upbringing of their children. One of the ways to be responsible for their birth is to restrain themselves from sexual relations for a time. However, Christian spouses should remember the words of St. Paul addressed to them: «Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency» (1 Cor. 7:5). Clearly, spouses should make such decisions mutually on the counsel of their spiritual father. The latter should take into account, with pastoral prudence, the concrete living conditions of the couple, their age, health, degree of spiritual maturity and many other circumstances. In doing so, he should distinguish those who can hold the high demands of continence from those to whom it is not given (Mt. 19:11), taking care above all of the preservation and consolidation of the family.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 10:28:05 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2012, 10:31:33 PM »
Yes. I just read both of those passages. Neither of those texts is an overt approval of contraceptive use. I'd parse it more exactly, showing the thought processes, but I'd rather spend that time writing about the Western Rite.  :)

Offline mike

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2012, 10:33:06 PM »
Yes. I just read both of those passages. Neither of those texts is an overt approval of contraceptive use. I'd parse it more exactly, showing the thought processes, but I'd rather spend that time writing about the Western Rite.  :)

The first and the second one, accordingly to the Head of the Synodal Department for Church and Society Relations, also is: http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/russian-orthodox-church-approves-condom-use-in-wake-of-pope-benedicts-remar
« Last Edit: November 14, 2012, 10:35:13 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2012, 10:35:12 PM »
Okay, but the texts themselves do not say that contraceptive use is approved by the Church.

Offline mike

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2012, 10:35:57 PM »
Okay, but the texts themselves do not say that contraceptive use is approved by the Church.

"are acceptable"
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2012, 12:26:24 AM »
OK, now Abe Foxman cozy's up with the Koch over his expression of affirmation of Nostra Aetate.

You're in real good company there these days aren't you "cardinal".

ADL says "jump", Vatican says "how high?'.

How can these "men" at the Vatican even look themselves in the mirror these days and call themselves "christian".

One day they will be held accountable.




http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/6427_96.htm
ADL Praises Cardinal Koch's Reaffirmation(capitulation) Of Positive(submissive) Relations Between Catholics And Jews

"We commend(command) Cardinal Koch's sentiments on coping with crises collectively(covertly(for Judaics)) and resolving conflicts positively( there's that word again)," said Rabbi Eric J. Greenberg, ADL Interfaith Director.  We also respectfully urge( demand) that any potential rehabilitation( re-education) of the SSPX include the requirement(threat) that the Society publicly reject their decades of hatred (truth), and that as an expression of their affirmation of Nostra Aetate, be required to remove all anti-Semitic(truth-telling) rhetoric from both their online and print publications."



It is embarrassing and quite revealing. At least 50 years of teachings which can't be reconciled with previous teachings and almost the whole visible structure taken over by the Modernists....
Aren't you starting to ask yourself if the church in which you have believed and to which you have given your fidelity, may not be true church?

Speaking of tradition, you do know that the Orthodox Church allows its members to use artificial birth control right?

That is not 100 percent accurate. We have not dogmatized one way or the other, but traditionally-speaking, there is discipline imposed on couples using artificial birth control (and other behaviors as well).
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2012, 12:28:10 AM »
Okay, but the texts themselves do not say that contraceptive use is approved by the Church.

"are acceptable"

which isn't exactly the same as "approved"
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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2012, 02:24:52 AM »
The statement in question is: "... only those means of controlling conception within marriage are acceptable which do not harm a fetus already conceived."

Because there are ways to "control conception within marriage" without the use of contraceptive devices, saying that only methods are acceptable which do not harm a fetus, is not the same thing as saying that any one particular such method IS openly approved.

To clarify using a hypothetical example: "Only vestments which do not have large holes in them, may be used in our diocese for the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom" does not necessarily mean that Western Rite vestments which do not have large holes in them, are approved in the diocese for the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

See?


Offline VarangianGuard

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2012, 05:46:20 AM »
OK, now Abe Foxman cozy's up with the Koch over his expression of affirmation of Nostra Aetate.

You're in real good company there these days aren't you "cardinal".

ADL says "jump", Vatican says "how high?'.

How can these "men" at the Vatican even look themselves in the mirror these days and call themselves "christian".

One day they will be held accountable.




http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/6427_96.htm
ADL Praises Cardinal Koch's Reaffirmation(capitulation) Of Positive(submissive) Relations Between Catholics And Jews

"We commend(command) Cardinal Koch's sentiments on coping with crises collectively(covertly(for Judaics)) and resolving conflicts positively( there's that word again)," said Rabbi Eric J. Greenberg, ADL Interfaith Director.  We also respectfully urge( demand) that any potential rehabilitation( re-education) of the SSPX include the requirement(threat) that the Society publicly reject their decades of hatred (truth), and that as an expression of their affirmation of Nostra Aetate, be required to remove all anti-Semitic(truth-telling) rhetoric from both their online and print publications."



It is embarrassing and quite revealing. At least 50 years of teachings which can't be reconciled with previous teachings and almost the whole visible structure taken over by the Modernists....
Aren't you starting to ask yourself if the church in which you have believed and to which you have given your fidelity, may not be true church?

Speaking of tradition, you do know that the Orthodox Church allows its members to use artificial birth control right?

Papist,

I have heard that claim, but when I speak to EO clergy about it, they say that is not the case.
It is one of the things I am looking into as well, so thanks for bringing the subject up.

Offline mike

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2012, 08:05:06 AM »
The statement in question is: "... only those means of controlling conception within marriage are acceptable which do not harm a fetus already conceived."

Because there are ways to "control conception within marriage" without the use of contraceptive devices, saying that only methods are acceptable which do not harm a fetus, is not the same thing as saying that any one particular such method IS openly approved.

To clarify using a hypothetical example: "Only vestments which do not have large holes in them, may be used in our diocese for the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom" does not necessarily mean that Western Rite vestments which do not have large holes in them, are approved in the diocese for the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

I don't get that logic.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2012, 09:51:34 AM »
OK, now Abe Foxman cozy's up with the Koch over his expression of affirmation of Nostra Aetate.

You're in real good company there these days aren't you "cardinal".

ADL says "jump", Vatican says "how high?'.

How can these "men" at the Vatican even look themselves in the mirror these days and call themselves "christian".

One day they will be held accountable.




http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/6427_96.htm
ADL Praises Cardinal Koch's Reaffirmation(capitulation) Of Positive(submissive) Relations Between Catholics And Jews

"We commend(command) Cardinal Koch's sentiments on coping with crises collectively(covertly(for Judaics)) and resolving conflicts positively( there's that word again)," said Rabbi Eric J. Greenberg, ADL Interfaith Director.  We also respectfully urge( demand) that any potential rehabilitation( re-education) of the SSPX include the requirement(threat) that the Society publicly reject their decades of hatred (truth), and that as an expression of their affirmation of Nostra Aetate, be required to remove all anti-Semitic(truth-telling) rhetoric from both their online and print publications."



It is embarrassing and quite revealing. At least 50 years of teachings which can't be reconciled with previous teachings and almost the whole visible structure taken over by the Modernists....
Aren't you starting to ask yourself if the church in which you have believed and to which you have given your fidelity, may not be true church?

Actually, if I start to ask myself questions like that, I begin to doubt religion itself.

Catholicism is the last stop for me.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2012, 09:56:06 AM »
OK, now Abe Foxman cozy's up with the Koch over his expression of affirmation of Nostra Aetate.

You're in real good company there these days aren't you "cardinal".

ADL says "jump", Vatican says "how high?'.

How can these "men" at the Vatican even look themselves in the mirror these days and call themselves "christian".

One day they will be held accountable.




http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/6427_96.htm
ADL Praises Cardinal Koch's Reaffirmation(capitulation) Of Positive(submissive) Relations Between Catholics And Jews

"We commend(command) Cardinal Koch's sentiments on coping with crises collectively(covertly(for Judaics)) and resolving conflicts positively( there's that word again)," said Rabbi Eric J. Greenberg, ADL Interfaith Director.  We also respectfully urge( demand) that any potential rehabilitation( re-education) of the SSPX include the requirement(threat) that the Society publicly reject their decades of hatred (truth), and that as an expression of their affirmation of Nostra Aetate, be required to remove all anti-Semitic(truth-telling) rhetoric from both their online and print publications."



It is embarrassing and quite revealing. At least 50 years of teachings which can't be reconciled with previous teachings and almost the whole visible structure taken over by the Modernists....
Aren't you starting to ask yourself if the church in which you have believed and to which you have given your fidelity, may not be true church?

Speaking of tradition, you do know that the Orthodox Church allows its members to use artificial birth control right?
And divorce as well which Christ himself personally condemned.

But hey, us traditionalist Romans only go back to the council of Trent. ;)

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline mike

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2012, 11:14:34 AM »
And divorce as well which Christ himself personally condemned.

Allowed.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2012, 11:58:48 AM »
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline ErmyCath

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2012, 12:07:36 PM »
I'm a trad-Cath looking into Orthodoxy as well.  I keep seeing on here that other trads will throw the artifical birth control issue at those of us who are exploring Orthodoxy.  While I know that there is a contra-argument, it seems to me there is little difference between non-abortifacient artificial birth control and NFP, assuming the mentality of the couple is the same.  The safeguard in Orthodoxy of using the ABC under the guidance of a spiritual father actually seems a much better solution that NFP without such guidance, as NFP is susceptible to abuse and sinful use (and I would argue most NFP using Catholics do not know that there can be a sinful use of that method).
"You must have an opinion on everything and loudly confront everyone with it." - Cyrillic

Offline JoeS2

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« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 01:11:32 PM by JoeS2 »

Offline Peter J

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2012, 02:13:41 PM »
Peter,
No, not really. If it is just religious intolerance.

Hmmm, I guess you and I have different definitions of religious intolerance.

If it is statements like or in the vicinity of  " you are Protestant and therefore you are an idiot" or "you are Catholic and no Catholics have spirituality and you are all a bunch of legalistic retards", I would be very bothered. That is to dishonour people.
If an Orthodox poster says " You are a member of a false religion", I would not be bothered, because if he is Orthodox, he must regard other Christian religions as false.

Yes, I can agree with you regarding those examples.

What about you?

Well, I don't have time to dig anything up, but the particular instance that comes to my mind is "Keep them all in your prayers so that the secularists and Protestants are kept at a distance" (with respect to Eastern Europe).

Others could probably give much better examples; that one happens to stand out in my mind because of how many posters attacked me when I dared to challenge it.
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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2012, 03:14:08 PM »
And I now repeat my question:

"...what did Bp. Williamson say or write which is excessively anti-Semitic? I haven't heard anyone say what that thing is."

Thanks in advance!

Offline mike

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2012, 03:41:18 PM »
And I now repeat my question:

"...what did Bp. Williamson say or write which is excessively anti-Semitic? I haven't heard anyone say what that thing is."

Thanks in advance!

He believes the Protocols to be true. That's make him more an idiot than an antisemite.

http://web.archive.org/web/20090606071534/http://catholicherald.co.uk/articles/a0000226.shtml
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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2012, 04:01:56 PM »
My impression is, they are not true. But whether certain documents or actions are fake or false-flag or real and genuine, is not what defines "Anti-Semitism."

I heard one thing: that he does not believe that six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. But, then, no one who has studied the history of that genocide, would ever buy into that little propaganda piece (6 million figure), either.

So no one can point to anything anti-Semitic about this man? It's all a witch hunt of political correctness?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 04:07:22 PM by Fr.Aidan »


Offline mike

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2012, 04:08:56 PM »
My impression is, they are not true. But whether certain documents or actions are fake or false-flag or real and genuine, is not what defines "Anti-Semitism."

Really? Believing Jews secretly plot to take over the world via evil ways is not antisemitic?
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2012, 04:09:30 PM »
My impression is, they are not true. But whether certain documents or actions are fake or false-flag or real and genuine, is not what defines "Anti-Semitism."

I heard one thing: that he does not believe that six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. But, then, no one who has studied the history of that genocide, would ever buy into that little propaganda piece (6 million figure), either.

So no one can point to anything anti-Semitic about this man? It's all a witch hunt of political correctness?
Good observation Fr.

BTW, they can't even agree on a proper defintion of "antisemitism" to begin with.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2012, 04:15:09 PM »
My impression is, they are not true. But whether certain documents or actions are fake or false-flag or real and genuine, is not what defines "Anti-Semitism."

Really? Believing Jews secretly plot to take over the world via evil ways is not antisemitic?
Oh no, now that would never happen would it.

I never read the Protocols, but you can't seriously sit there and never believe Jews ( like many other org/religions) have never secretly plotted against their enemies?

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2012, 04:17:39 PM »

US superior of SSPX denies group is anti-Semitic

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- The traditionalist Society of St. Pius X "completely rejects the false claim that it teaches or practices anti-Semitism, which is a racial hatred of the Jewish people whether on account of their ethnicity, culture or religious beliefs," said the society's U.S. district superior.



http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1204778.htm
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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Cardinal: Vatican-SSPX talks do not signal toleration of anti-Judaism
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2012, 04:35:29 PM »
Exactly, Michal. Believing that the Protocols of Zion is a real document from Jews, is not anti-Semitism.

Failing to believe individual pieces of the Holocaust propaganda, is not anti-Semitism. Even if someone believed that Jews were never targeted by Hitler's regime and that no Jews died in that genocide, I would think they were very odd, but I would have to know more facts, before I could declare that they were anti-Semitic.